Author Topic: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata  (Read 202641 times)

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1215 on: July 17, 2019, 01:12:53 PM »
Where dies it say the digs found her body
Maybe the digs dug it up?
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1216 on: July 17, 2019, 01:16:19 PM »
Maybe the digs dug it up?

I think it was yesterday you spelt liable as libel..
I didn't bother pointing it out.. It's a childish thing to do

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1217 on: July 17, 2019, 01:19:36 PM »
I think it was yesterday you spelt liable as libel..
I didn't bother pointing it out.. It's a childish thing to do
Not to me its not.  Point it out.  Anything I right must be written write.
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John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1218 on: July 17, 2019, 01:22:25 PM »
Not to me its not.  Point it out.  Anything I right must be written write.

It is to me.... I post from my phone... I dont have the time or the inclination to correct things

Offline jassi

I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Lace

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1220 on: July 17, 2019, 02:52:51 PM »
Another one for the dogs, it would seem   8((()*/

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/17/bones-found-in-worcestershire-unlikely-to-be-remains-of-suzy-lamplugh

Dogs will find bones,  that's what they do,  they bury them they dig them up.

Sniffing out cadaver scent when there is no body or bones is the difficult one.

Offline jassi

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1221 on: July 17, 2019, 03:00:28 PM »
Dogs will find bones,  that's what they do,  they bury them they dig them up.

Sniffing out cadaver scent when there is no body or bones is the difficult one.


Not difficult at all, they did it admirably in PDL.  IMO

The difficult bit is getting humans to accept their alerts.

But of course, being a supporter , you would want to put them down whenever possible.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1222 on: July 17, 2019, 03:31:05 PM »

Not difficult at all, they did it admirably in PDL.  IMO

The difficult bit is getting humans to accept their alerts.

But of course, being a supporter , you would want to put them down whenever possible.

When their handler tells us they have no evidential value... I think it's right to take his word for it

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1223 on: July 17, 2019, 10:36:43 PM »
When their handler tells us they have no evidential value... I think it's right to take his word for it

It's all about context.... When the owner says they are a alerting to what they are trained to alert to we'll also take his word for it!!

In PDL the evidence was found and analysed. The dogs usefulness is finding the evidence. The alert itself isn't "evidential". It's really quite a simple process to grasp.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1224 on: July 17, 2019, 11:34:17 PM »
When their handler tells us they have no evidential value... I think it's right to take his word for it
How many times does Grime refer to "evidential value" in the white paper

He has not used the word evidential at all.  The word evidence comes up 146 times. 
Value seems to be predominately associated with the phrase "value for money".
On page 56/187 of the document http://eprints.staffs.ac.uk/4750/1/Forensic%20Canine%20Foundation%20.pdf  he defines how they are to be used in court.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 11:58:30 PM by Robittybob1 »
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John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1225 on: July 18, 2019, 07:53:50 AM »
How many times does Grime refer to "evidential value" in the white paper

He has not used the word evidential at all.  The word evidence comes up 146 times. 
Value seems to be predominately associated with the phrase "value for money".
On page 56/187 of the document http://eprints.staffs.ac.uk/4750/1/Forensic%20Canine%20Foundation%20.pdf  he defines how they are to be used in court.

ive already explained this several times...Grime seems to have had a massive change of mind as to what constitutes corroboration of the VRD alerts and has offerred no explanation for this. Based on his views in the white paper the alerts in Luz would be considered corroborated.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1226 on: July 18, 2019, 08:25:38 AM »
ive already explained this several times...Grime seems to have had a massive change of mind as to what constitutes corroboration of the VRD alerts and has offerred no explanation for this. Based on his views in the white paper the alerts in Luz would be considered corroborated.
OK we have the definition of corroboration in the white paper (OK I might go to the bother of making a transcript).
So how do you fathom from that "the alerts in Luz would be considered corroborated"?
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John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1227 on: July 18, 2019, 08:42:15 AM »
OK we have the definition of corroboration in the white paper (OK I might go to the bother of making a transcript).
So how do you fathom from that "the alerts in Luz would be considered corroborated"?

Because according to the white paper the alerts can be corroborated by anectdotal witness, statements

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1228 on: July 18, 2019, 08:51:06 AM »
Because according to the white paper the alerts can be corroborated by anectdotal witness, statements
So who's witness statements are you thinking of?
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John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1229 on: July 18, 2019, 08:59:25 AM »
So who's witness statements are you thinking of?

Try and look at it with an open mind
If the evidence had been put to a jury
A, cadaver dog with a 95% success rate alerted several times in the McCann, apartment
A man seen carrying a child identified with 60 to 80 % certainty to be Gerry
15 markers of maddies DNa alerted to by a, blood dog.

Kate refusing to answer questions

In a hostile Portuguese court what do you think the verdict would have been