UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
News and current affairs => A look at the news stories currently making the headlines. => Topic started by: John on September 05, 2019, 11:57:14 AM
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So here we are, Parliament is back after the summer recess and up to their old tricks again in the name of democracy, but whose democracy do they represent since there appears to be several meanings of the term these days.
As it stands, the Labour Party now have a Bill before Westminster which seeks to prevent a No-Deal-Brexit on the 31st October, a Bill which the government now refers to as the 'Surrender Bill' since it effectively hands the Brexit timetable to the EU. The government has today announced that it will not appose this Bill in the House of Lords.
For their part, the government yesterday attempted to call a General Election on the 15th October but in order to do so they required that 2/3 of the Commons vote in favour of doing so. In last nights vote the Labour Party and others abstained from voting thus the required quota was not obtained. This leaves the government with very little option but to trigger a General Election by bringing a No Confidence Motion in themselves. Labour can of course argue that they have every confidence in the government and so attempt to thwart such a move.
And so it goes on, democracy denied or what?
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So here we are, Parliament is back after the summer recess and up to their old tricks again in the name of democracy, but whose democracy do they represent since there appears to be several meanings of the term these days.
As it stands, the Labour Party now have a Bill before Westminster which seeks to prevent a No-Deal-Brexit on the 31st October, a Bill which the government now refers to as the 'Surrender Bill' since it effectively hands the Brexit timetable to the EU. The government has today announced that it will not appose this Bill in the House of Lords.
For their part, the government yesterday attempted to call a General Election on the 15th October but in order to do so they required that 2/3 of the Commons vote in favour of doing so. In last night vote the Labour Party and others abstained from voting thus the required quota was not obtained. This leaves the government with very little option but to trigger a General Election by bringing a No Confidence Motion in themselves. Labour can of course argue that they have every confidence in the government and so attempt to thwart such a move.
And so it goes on, democracy denied or what?
I can’t wait for the government to bring a No Confidence motion on itself, how bloody hilarious that will be.
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So here we are, Parliament is back after the summer recess and up to their old tricks again in the name of democracy, but whose democracy do they represent since there appears to be several meanings of the term these days.
As it stands, the Labour Party now have a Bill before Westminster which seeks to prevent a No-Deal-Brexit on the 31st October, a Bill which the government now refers to as the 'Surrender Bill' since it effectively hands the Brexit timetable to the EU. The government has today announced that it will not appose this Bill in the House of Lords.
For their part, the government yesterday attempted to call a General Election on the 15th October but in order to do so they required that 2/3 of the Commons vote in favour of doing so. In last night vote the Labour Party and others abstained from voting thus the required quota was not obtained. This leaves the government with very little option but to trigger a General Election by bringing a No Confidence Motion in themselves. Labour can of course argue that they have every confidence in the government and so attempt to thwart such a move.
And so it goes on, democracy denied or what?
What can prevent the EU from denying any extension after 31st October to our government in the absence of a new plan for Brexit? Is the Labour-led no-deal bill worthless?
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Is stopping us leaving the EU more important than upholding democracy? It seems that for many of our MP's it is.
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I can’t wait for the government to bring a No Confidence motion on itself, how bloody hilarious that will be.
Needs must as they say Vertigo. I think a General Election is inevitable now and I have no doubt every legal eagle and adviser in government is working on how to trigger it asap.
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What can prevent the EU from denying any extension after 31st October to our government in the absence of a new plan for Brexit? Is the Labour-led no-deal bill worthless?
A good point Misty, the EU can end this immediately by refusing any further extension beyond the 31st October, this would result in a No-Deal-Brexit by default. Maybe the EU will take the lead now?
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A good point Misty, the EU can end this immediately by refusing any further extension beyond the 31st October, this would result in a No-Deal-Brexit by default. Maybe the EU will take the lead now?
There is a report in the mail saying as much,hard to tell what is happening at the moment.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7433687/Europe-REJECT-Brexit-extension-despite-efforts-Remainers.html
Europe may still REJECT Britain's bid for a new Brexit extension - because it wouldn't 'solve the problem', French minister warns
French European minister said even a six-month extension wouldn't help Britain
Amelie de Montchalin said a delay 'without changing anything' was futile
French foreign minister Jean-Yves Le Drian added that No Deal was most likely
It comes as Remainers are seeking to block a No Deal Brexit on October 31
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A good point Misty, the EU can end this immediately by refusing any further extension beyond the 31st October, this would result in a No-Deal-Brexit by default. Maybe the EU will take the lead now?
Perhaps that’s what Boris is banking on. Then we can all blame the EU for a No Deal Brexit, and Boris will come out of it smelling of roses and win the election with a landslide. But will the EU REALLY want to solve Boris’s problems so easily? Hmmmmm....
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Perhaps that’s what Boris is banking on. Then we can all blame the EU for a No Deal Brexit, and Boris will come out of it smelling of roses and win the election with a landslide. But will the EU REALLY want to solve Boris’s problems so easily? Hmmmmm....
Would you want some one in your club who doesn't want to be there? if a no deal harms the uk financially I don't expect the eu to bail them.
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Would you want some one in your club who doesn't want to be there? if a no deal harms the uk financially I don't expect the eu to bail them.
Except they’ve already given us one extension, or is it two?
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Except they’ve already given us one extension, or is it two?
They like kicking cans down the road also.
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They like kicking cans down the road also.
So then they are unlikely to deny us an extension.
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It appears that matters are going from bad to worse now. Boris says that he would rather be found dead in a ditch than ask for another extension while ousted Tory Dominic Grieve threatens Boris will be imprisoned if he ignores the new anti 'No-Deal-Brexit' Bill after it receives the Queen's assent on Monday.
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So then they are unlikely to deny us an extension.
Not in their interest to.
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Tory Party surges ahead of Labour as brexiteers get behind Boris.
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Tory Party surges ahead of Labour as brexiteers get behind Boris.
A measure of the complete and utter uselessness of Labour under Corbyn.
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It appears that matters are going from bad to worse now. Boris says that he would rather be found dead in a ditch than ask for another extension while ousted Tory Dominic Grieve threatens Boris will be imprisoned if he ignores the new anti 'No-Deal-Brexit' Bill after it receives the Queen's assent on Monday.
The Queen has already permitted Boris to prorogue Parliament. Is it possible she will also withhold assent to legislation of Benn's No Deal Brexit Bill. given the failures of Parliament?
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Did anyone watch the BBC2 programme about the Rise Of The Nazis and how Hitler managed to come to power ? I have to say it was rather prescient, Godwin’s Law notwithstanding.
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The Queen has already permitted Boris to prorogue Parliament. Is it possible she will also withhold assent to legislation of Benn's No Deal Brexit Bill. given the failures of Parliament?
It is an interesting situation for a constitutional monarch to have been placed in for which I doubt there is anything approaching precedent in her long reign.
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The Queen has already permitted Boris to prorogue Parliament. Is it possible she will also withhold assent to legislation of Benn's No Deal Brexit Bill. given the failures of Parliament?
Royal assent is the final step required for a parliamentary bill to become law. ... the sovereign may delay the bill's assent through the use of his or her reserve powers, thereby vetoing the bill. the sovereign may refuse royal assent on the advice of his or her ministers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_assent
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The Queen has already permitted Boris to prorogue Parliament. Is it possible she will also withhold assent to legislation of Benn's No Deal Brexit Bill. given the failures of Parliament?
I was just wondering that too misty, Boris is in too deep now to accept failure. I have a feeling the country will see news lows from certain MPs before this fiasco ends.
It says much for our so-called democracy when minority parties can usurp the Prime Minister and elected government by sheer numbers but refuse to partake in elections.
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I was just wondering that too misty, Boris is in too deep now to accept failure. I have a feeling the country will see news lows from certain MPs before this fiasco ends.
It says much for our so-called democracy when minority parties can usurp the Prime Minister and elected government by sheer numbers but refuse to partake in elections.
The Queen can withhold Royal Assent if her ministers advise it. Whether she can grant it if they advise against it isn't clear. I wonder what their advice will be on this no deal bill? The last time it was withheld was in 1708, but if the Speaker can turn to the distant past for prescedents so can the government.
Our democracy is in tatters and I'm amazed that our self-centred blinkered MP's can't seem to understand the damage they've done to the country they claim to hold dear. Many of them are clinging to our system; representative democracy to excuse their actions, but they're ignoring the meaning of the word, which is 'rule by the people'.
The Brexit referendum may not have been legally binding but the government asked a specific question of the people and got an answer.
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The Queen can withhold Royal Assent if her ministers advise it. Whether she can grant it if they advise against it isn't clear. I wonder what their advice will be on this no deal bill? The last time it was withheld was in 1708, but if the Speaker can turn to the distant past for prescedents so can the government.
Our democracy is in tatters and I'm amazed that our self-centred blinkered MP's can't seem to understand the damage they've done to the country they claim to hold dear. Many of them are clinging to our system; representative democracy to excuse their actions, but they're ignoring the meaning of the word, which is 'rule by the people'.
The Brexit referendum may not have been legally binding but the government asked a specific question of the people and got an answer.
Anyone who ever believed politicians got into the game "political arena" to do good in the communities/ world stage, on behalf of their voters, have been seriously deluding themselves!
As the evidence has shown, in recent decades at least these are carreer people who employ family and other hangers on in their own little bubble use the public purse to advance their homes and lifstyle and weild power to suit their own agenda. Me my family and I is their subliminal motto. A coat of arms with a hand grabbing money from a starving child would not be inappropriate at all.
Lst week such a careeer politician came to my door with the usual cr'p. I asked two questions- no reply.
1. if we get independance will it be a no deal and what if The English take the lead and close the border? How would we shift our wares to the EU is we get allowed to get in after brexit.
2. climate change- how much would we save on on air fares- EU salaries, and emmiissons due to travel to meetings by EURO MPs.
reply... But. yes as you say we are not there yet.
I asked for the questions to be answered
reply. ofcourse we al have concerns about these things.. Climate change people are dying.
I asked how many poeple have died from climate change and over what period this has taken place
reply. I don't have exact numbers but scientist say... I cut her off by asking what scientist and what credentails they had
Silence, offered me a leaflet and walked away! I was laughing so loud.
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Royal assent is the final step required for a parliamentary bill to become law. ... the sovereign may delay the bill's assent through the use of his or her reserve powers, thereby vetoing the bill. the sovereign may refuse royal assent on the advice of his or her ministers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_assent
Well her PM was with her for dinner on Friday evening. I wonder what they talked about?
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Well her PM was with her for dinner on Friday evening. I wonder what they talked about?
The Queen is viewed as an ordinary EU citizen like the rest of us mere mortals. Only Queen of UK and commonwealth.
They may have talked about the price of French beef being heavily subsidised by us and the Germans. Or Megan and Harry... Mind you, if he goes to Prison the queen can 'pardon' him - maybe they were chatting about that. :)
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The Queen is viewed as an ordinary EU citizen like the rest of us mere mortals. Only Queen of UK and commonwealth.
They may have talked about the price of French beef being heavily subsidised by us and the Germans. Or Megan and Harry... Mind you, if he goes to Prison the queen can 'pardon' him - maybe they were chatting about that. :)
Or about the possibility of her withholding Royal Consent for the 'no deal' Bill. If she did that he's off the hook.
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10 Downing Street say that the PM Boris Johnson will sabotage any request to the EU for an extension and will leave on 31st October if no deal is reached.
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10 Downing Street say that the PM Boris Johnson will sabotage any request to the EU for an extension and will leave on 31st October if no deal is reached.
The problem is: we are getting hysteria from the back benches, the remoaners media which hunt, we are not being told what is going on in the back ground. Bojo may well have a good reason for holding firm. maybe some partners want to continue to buy and sell wares with UK after no deal brexit. HE may even be sure that the EU members holding back are calling a bluff...
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10 Downing Street say that the PM Boris Johnson will sabotage any request to the EU for an extension and will leave on 31st October if no deal is reached.
It looks like the million to one chance of it ever happening was simply a bare-faced Boris lie, unless of course he is busy negotiating a fsb new deal with the EU that no one knows anything about yet. What are the chances...?
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Another one bites the dust; Bercow's stepping down now. Will there be anyone to vote for if we ever have a general election, I wonder.
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For No Deal Fans this will come as great news, from today’s Times:
Is there any chance that a deal could be struck with the EU before October 31?
Almost certainly not. The EU is prepared to make some concessions to get a deal but not enough to meet Mr Johnson’s red lines and not until they can be reasonably certain that they will be passed by parliament.
Mr Johnson has overstated how the threat of no-deal could force the EU to make concessions. But it could help to get a compromise over the line if that compromise included some kind of Irish backstop.
Insiders in London and Brussels confirm that no meaningful negotiations are taking place at the moment and that talks are focused on scoping out each other’s positions.
It is wrong to suggest that there could be a last-minute unexpected deal struck between Mr Johnson and the other EU27 leaders at the summit on October 17. A deal would have to have been negotiated in advance to be signed off at that meeting. Throughout the Brexit negotiations EU leaders have refused to negotiate head to head with the British prime minister. That is not going to change now.
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Another one bites the dust; Bercow's stepping down now. Will there be anyone to vote for if we ever have a general election, I wonder.
Of course there will. The Brexit Party will be fielding a candidate in every constituency. Don’t worry (not that you seem that bothered about voting for anything anyway),
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I voted to remain in the EU but I have to admit I think Boris is playing a blinder. In the space of a few weeks he has exposed Labour under Corbyn for what they really are & it was particularly satisfying to watch Emily Thornberry on QT last Thursday digging an even deeper pit for her party.
IMO - let's leave without a deal and then wait for the EU to come to us with a begging bowl. Maybe that's a simplistic view but Belgium, France & Germany will be particularly badly hit by a No Deal Brexit.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1002863/Brexit-news-UK-EU-Ireland-Germany-Italy-Belgium-France-no-deal-latest
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I voted to remain in the EU but I have to admit I think Boris is playing a blinder. In the space of a few weeks he has exposed Labour under Corbyn for what they really are & it was particularly satisfying to watch Emily Thornberry on QT last Thursday digging an even deeper pit for her party.
IMO - let's leave without a deal and then wait for the EU to come to us with a begging bowl. Maybe that's a simplistic view but Belgium, France & Germany will be particularly badly hit by a No Deal Brexit.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1002863/Brexit-news-UK-EU-Ireland-Germany-Italy-Belgium-France-no-deal-latest
Yes, Emily Thornberry on QT was HILARIOUS. Talk about cognitive dissonance!
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For No Deal Fans this will come as great news, from today’s Times:
Is there any chance that a deal could be struck with the EU before October 31?
Almost certainly not. The EU is prepared to make some concessions to get a deal but not enough to meet Mr Johnson’s red lines and not until they can be reasonably certain that they will be passed by parliament.
Mr Johnson has overstated how the threat of no-deal could force the EU to make concessions. But it could help to get a compromise over the line if that compromise included some kind of Irish backstop.
Insiders in London and Brussels confirm that no meaningful negotiations are taking place at the moment and that talks are focused on scoping out each other’s positions.
It is wrong to suggest that there could be a last-minute unexpected deal struck between Mr Johnson and the other EU27 leaders at the summit on October 17. A deal would have to have been negotiated in advance to be signed off at that meeting. Throughout the Brexit negotiations EU leaders have refused to negotiate head to head with the British prime minister. That is not going to change now.
Good news indeed, let's just get out and do the negotiating afterwards. I'm quite sure the £39 billion carrot will be useful.
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I voted to remain in the EU but I have to admit I think Boris is playing a blinder. In the space of a few weeks he has exposed Labour under Corbyn for what they really are & it was particularly satisfying to watch Emily Thornberry on QT last Thursday digging an even deeper pit for her party.
IMO - let's leave without a deal and then wait for the EU to come to us with a begging bowl. Maybe that's a simplistic view but Belgium, France & Germany will be particularly badly hit by a No Deal Brexit.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1002863/Brexit-news-UK-EU-Ireland-Germany-Italy-Belgium-France-no-deal-latest
I totally agree misty.
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Good news indeed, let's just get out and do the negotiating afterwards. I'm quite sure the £39 billion carrot will be useful.
I'm not sure it's the best tactic in the world to renege on your promises and then expect to get a great deal afterwards, but still...
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I voted to remain in the EU but I have to admit I think Boris is playing a blinder. In the space of a few weeks he has exposed Labour under Corbyn for what they really are & it was particularly satisfying to watch Emily Thornberry on QT last Thursday digging an even deeper pit for her party.
IMO - let's leave without a deal and then wait for the EU to come to us with a begging bowl. Maybe that's a simplistic view but Belgium, France & Germany will be particularly badly hit by a No Deal Brexit.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1002863/Brexit-news-UK-EU-Ireland-Germany-Italy-Belgium-France-no-deal-latest
I agree Misty- great post!