Amaral and the dogs

[mercury]

That's simply not good enough I'm afraid.

It is. You cannot ask a question such as , is there any evidence that a blood dog reacts to blood?  when it exists and it is a known fact both from training and real life cases

 &%+((£

Because basically that was what you were saying. That a blood dog was brought in to confirm a cadaver dog's alerts to blood (as asserted by you as the reason for the cadaver dog alerts) but failed to alert, even though the blood dog was more highly and specifically trained for blood. Do you understand?

[pathfinder73]

It is. You cannot ask a question such as , is there any evidence that a blood dog reacts to blood?  when it exists and it is a known fact both from training and real life cases

 &%+((£

Because basically that was what you were saying. That a blood dog was brought in to confirm a cadaver dog's alerts to blood (as asserted by you as the reason for the cadaver dog alerts) but failed to alert, even though the blood dog was more highly and specifically trained for blood. Do you understand?

And I showed him the video of the dogs training in Jersey. Eddie detected the corpse scent on the beach (his job is to find a body) and Keela detects blood. That's their specialised training to work as a team in a suspected murder case. Eddie finds corpse scent and Keela blood. If Eddie doesn't alert then Keela is not used. They are not used as a team to find blood. They are used to find evidence of the missing person. Who would've thought it could be that simple and that's their job which they were successful at doing 

[Alfred R Jones]

It is. You cannot ask a question such as , is there any evidence that a blood dog reacts to blood?  when it exists and it is a known fact both from training and real life cases

 &%+((£

Because basically that was what you were saying. That a blood dog was brought in to confirm a cadaver dog's alerts to blood (as asserted by you as the reason for the cadaver dog alerts) but failed to alert, even though the blood dog was more highly and specifically trained for blood. Do you understand?

You cannot talk of proof without incontovertible evidence, do you understand that?  You cannot state that if one dog alerts and the other dog doesn't it proves the existence of cadaver odour, not without evidence, do you understand that?

[mercury]

And I showed him the video of the dogs training in Jersey. Eddie detected the corpse scent on the beach (his job is to find a body) and Keela detects blood. That's their specialised training to work as a team in a suspected murder case. Eddie finds corpse scent and Keela blood. If Eddie doesn't alert then Keela is not used. They are not used as a team to find blood. They are used to find evidence of the missing person. Who would've thought it could be that simple and that's their job which they were successful at doing 

"They are not used as a team to find blood"

Exactly, but some people here want to promote this silly idea.

[pathfinder73]

You cannot talk of proof without incontovertible evidence, do you understand that?  You cannot state that if one dog alerts and the other dog doesn't it proves the existence of cadaver odour, not without evidence, do you understand that?

SY are looking for the proof. The dog alerts are evidence.

[ferryman]

SY are looking for the proof. The dog alerts are evidence.

Both Grime and Harrison state that dog alerts are not evidence.

[mercury]

You cannot talk of proof without incontovertible evidence, do you understand that?  You cannot state that if one dog alerts and the other dog doesn't it proves the existence of cadaver odour, not without evidence, do you understand that?

You will of course accept my sincerest apologies for even suggesting proof, if I did. The pointers are there and its a simple equation.

It is entitely possible if not probable that if a) cadaver dog alerts and b) blood dog who is more highly trained vis a vis blood does not alert = c) it was not blood that the cadaver dog alerted to and therefore d) cadaver scent. That is why Mr Grime in his police report stated that in his professional opinion Eddie was alerting to cadaver scent contaminant. That does not mean blood from a living person.

It's not hard

[Alfred R Jones]

You will of course accept my sincerest apologies for even suggesting proof, if I did. The pointers are there and its a simple equation.

It is entitely possible if not probable that if a) cadaver dog alerts and b) blood dog who is more highly trained vis a vis blood does not alert = c) it was not blood that the cadaver dog alerted to and therefore d) cadaver scent. That is why Mr Grime in his police report stated that in his professional opinion Eddie was alerting to cadaver scent contaminant. That does not mean blood from a living person.

It's not hard

The reason I asked you for science based evidence in the first place is because you did use the word "prove". 

[mercury]

The reason I asked you for science based evidence in the first place is because you did use the word "prove".

I didn't think I did say anything proves anything, can you quote me? bet you can't. meanwhile, try and keep up with the facts and the arguments.

[Brietta]

You will of course accept my sincerest apologies for even suggesting proof, if I did. The pointers are there and its a simple equation.

It is entitely possible if not probable that if a) cadaver dog alerts and b) blood dog who is more highly trained vis a vis blood does not alert = c) it was not blood that the cadaver dog alerted to and therefore d) cadaver scent. That is why Mr Grime in his police report stated that in his professional opinion Eddie was alerting to cadaver scent contaminant. That does not mean blood from a living person.

It's not hard

Nope it sure ain't ... a little bit too much for Mr Amaral to get his head round ... but takes all sorts

Thing to bear in mind is that the components of the "scent of death" number cadaverine and putricine, the names of which are self explanatory.

Makes it rather important for forensic scientists to find out what is actually causing the stink.

[pathfinder73]

Nope it sure ain't ... a little bit too much for Mr Amaral to get his head round ... but takes all sorts

Thing to bear in mind is that the components of the "scent of death" number cadaverine and putricine, the names of which are self explanatory.

Makes it rather important for forensic scientists to find out what is actually causing the stink.

You are ignorant because you don't know the dogs training. Martin Grime knows and he said Eddie alerted to cadaver and has proven it in many missing person cases. When Maddy turns up alive you can diss the dogs.

[Alfred R Jones]

I didn't think I did say anything proves anything, can you quote me? bet you can't. meanwhile, try and keep up with the facts and the arguments.

You wrote the following, did you not?


You have a choice. Eddie was alerting to cadaver scent and Keela signalled blood. Or both dogs signalled blood. The problem is you have no way of knowing for sure. You also have a massive problem when one dog alerts and the other doesn't, proving that the first (cadaver) dog was not alerting to blood.

The point being put about ,that if Keela alerted where Eddie did, it must mean blood is also a misnomer. Its entirely possible that blood can be found where a dead body has laid.

[Brietta]

You are ignorant because you don't know the dogs training. Martin Grime knows and he said Eddie alerted to cadaver as he has proven it in many missing person cases. When Maddy turns up alive you can diss the dogs.

I sincerely hope Madeleine does turn up alive and well ... but I will not be dissing the dogs when she does.

Of course Eddie alerts to cadaver scent.  Which is a mix max of various organs breaking down at different rates and producing the horrible smell you don't need a dog to locate.
He also alerts to the components of cadaver scent which include cadaverine and putricine ...

It is probable that Eddie KNEW what and maybe even WHO he was smelling ... but he couldn't tell us that ... whatever he was smelling had to be checked out forensically ... and Martin Grime told us that.

[pathfinder73]

I sincerely hope Madeleine does turn up alive and well ... but I will not be dissing the dogs when she does.

Of course Eddie alerts to cadaver scent.  Which is a mix max of various organs breaking down at different rates and producing the horrible smell you don't need a dog to locate.
He also alerts to the components of cadaver scent which include cadaverine and putricine ...

It is probable that Eddie KNEW what and maybe even WHO he was smelling ... but he couldn't tell us that ... whatever he was smelling had to be checked out forensically ... and Martin Grime told us that.

Eddie came months later to detect cadaver scent. If she died inside that apartment she was moved out shortly after. You didn't see the police coming in and saying what's that awful smell did you? If she was later transported in a car the smell would be horrid and you would leave the boot open if you wanted to get rid of it.

[Alfred R Jones]

Eddie came months later to detect cadaver scent. If she died inside that apartment she was moved out shortly after. You didn't see the police coming in and saying what's that awful smell did you? If she was later transported in a car the smell would be horrid and you would leave the boot open if you wanted to get rid of it.

Why didn't Eddie alert to the boot of the car?