Amaral and the dogs

[ShiningInLuz]

The scent was escaping through the passenger door seal. He didn't sniff the boot seal but went underneath the boot twice.

"the passenger compartment of your car is not designed to be airtight."

"I recognise this behaviour as the dog indicating scent emitting from the inside of the vehicle through the seal around the door." (MG)

Eddie alerted at the driver door, not the passenger door.  He was directed to the passenger door and did not alert.  He did not alert at the boot door.

Martin Grime may or may not be right in saying this was due to the seal on the driver door. 

If the Scenic was deliberately fitted with non-porous seals, then Eddie should have alerted at the passenger door, and probably at the boot door.  Therefore, I conclude that it is not deliberately fitted with porous seals.

That leads me to conclude that IF Martin Grime is correct THEN the driver seal may have been faulty.

However, there is an alternative explanation.

Before Eddie alerted at the driver door, he ran back and forth between the Scenic and the garage ventilator, suggesting that there was a scent trail between the Scenic and the ventilator.

Now consider the set-up of the test.  Along with the other 9 vehicles, the Scenic was driven into the garage and parked in what was deemed to be an appropriate slot.  So we know for a fact that the driver door was opened once when the driver got in and once inside the garage when the driver got out.  It may have been more openings and closings but I neither know nor care.

The result fits the dog's pattern, of a scent stream form the Scenic to the ventilator, with the strongest point being around the door.

If the passenger door of the Scenic was not opened and the boot was not opened (and why would they be?), then there would be no scent around these parts, hence no alerts.

Try reversing this.  Assume my explanation above is incorrect.  Assume Martin Grime is correct.  Without that faulty seal, the test should have failed i.e. Eddie should not have alerted, just run round in a tizzy between the Scenic and the ventilator.  Then Keela would not have been deployed.

And endless years of argument over the dogs would have had much less fuel.

It wasn't the best-thought through experiment.  All of the vehicles should have had windows down or doors open to ensure interior smells were available at the exterior.

[pegasus]

All car doors are designed so that any unwanted water which gets inside the door (from rain or carwashes) can drain out. On the underside of a car door are drain holes.

Air can pass from the people area of the car, around the sides of the interior panel of the door, to inside the door, then out the drain holes. That is where the air he sniffed came from IMO, a drain hole at the bottom of the driver door.

Here's how it works on a different make http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/BCGearhead/2000-2005/Water%20Leak%20Repair/Water9.jpg

We need now is a photo of the underside of a scenic door showing the drain holes, anyone here own one?

[Carana]

All car doors are designed so that any unwanted water which gets inside the door (from rain or carwashes) can drain out. On the underside of a car door are drain holes.

Air can pass from the people area of the car, around the sides of the interior panel of the door, to inside the door, then out the drain holes. That is where the air he sniffed came from IMO, a drain hole at the bottom of the driver door.

Here's how it works on a different make http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/BCGearhead/2000-2005/Water%20Leak%20Repair/Water9.jpg

We need now is a photo of the underside of a scenic door showing the drain holes, anyone here own one?

An explanation as to why Eddie never reacted to the boot might also be helpful...

[slartibartfast]

But seems that it is OK to say exactly what THEY want to say about The Mccanns
... including VERY defamatory things, such as continually suggesting by inferring that Gerry is Smithman ... and that Gerry was carrying Madeleines dead body


And also changing the facts subtly to fit THEIR agenda


Can we have a level playing field please.

This from the person who makes unsubstantiated claims about mysterious organisations.

[Carana]

I don't know which thread may be appropriate.

My point is that I don't understand the nitpicking of statements when there is a strong likelihood that there were mistakes for all sorts of reasons.

Here's one by Martin Grime, which - for some reason - I have never noticed being picked up.



CANINE VEHICLE SEARCHES.

Ten vehicles were screened in an underground multi storey car park at
Portimao. The vehicles, of which I did not know the owner details, were
parked on an empty floor with 20-30 feet between each. The vehicle
placement video recording and management of the process was conducted
by the PJ. The EVRD was then tasked to search the area. When passing a
vehicle I now know to be hired and in the possession of the McCann family,
the dog's behaviour changed substantially. This then produced an alert
indication at the lower part of the drivers door where the dog was biting and
barking. I recognise this behaviour as the dog indicating scent emitting from
the inside of the vehicle through the seal around the door.


This vehicle was then subjected to a full physical examination by the PJ and
no human remains were found. The CSI dog was then tasked to screen the
vehicle. An alert indication was forthcoming from the rear driver's side of the
boot area. Forensic samples were taken by the PJ and forwarded to a
forensic laboratory in the U.K.



That's not correct. Keela alerted to the opposite side of the boot area (i.e. behind the passenger's side).

[ShiningInLuz]

All car doors are designed so that any unwanted water which gets inside the door (from rain or carwashes) can drain out. On the underside of a car door are drain holes.

Air can pass from the people area of the car, around the sides of the interior panel of the door, to inside the door, then out the drain holes. That is where the air he sniffed came from IMO, a drain hole at the bottom of the driver door.

Here's how it works on a different make http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/BCGearhead/2000-2005/Water%20Leak%20Repair/Water9.jpg

We need now is a photo of the underside of a scenic door showing the drain holes, anyone here own one?

If it was due to holes in the door, why wasn't the same true of the passenger side?  If the driver door has drain holes, wouldn't the passenger side have the same?  Therefore an air and scent passageway?

If the water from the door drips onto the door footplate, which is then angled to expel the water, we are back to seals that don't seal.  And it should be the same on the passenger side, which was missing an alert.

If it goes out further down the car, there is the issue of why Eddie picked on the bottom of the door, rather than the external drain holes.  And why the driver side but not the passenger side.

I wonder if I know anyone with a Scenic?

[ShiningInLuz]

...

My point is that I don't understand the nitpicking of statements when there is a strong likelihood that there were mistakes for all sorts of reasons.

Here's one by Martin Grime, which - for some reason - I have never noticed being picked up.



CANINE VEHICLE SEARCHES.

...

I recognise this behaviour as the dog indicating scent emitting from
the inside of the vehicle through the seal around the door. [/i]


This vehicle was then subjected to a full physical examination by the PJ and
no human remains were found. The CSI dog was then tasked to screen the
vehicle. An alert indication was forthcoming from the rear driver's side of the
boot area. Forensic samples were taken by the PJ and forwarded to a
forensic laboratory in the U.K.



That's not correct. Keela alerted to the opposite side of the boot area (i.e. behind the passenger's side).

Agreed on the mistakes point.  Agreed on the nitpicking point  Agreed on the alert being placed by Martin Grime in the wrong side of the boot.

[misty]

Deleted.

[lordpookles]

If it was due to holes in the door, why wasn't the same true of the passenger side?  If the driver door has drain holes, wouldn't the passenger side have the same?  Therefore an air and scent passageway?

If the water from the door drips onto the door footplate, which is then angled to expel the water, we are back to seals that don't seal.  And it should be the same on the passenger side, which was missing an alert.

If it goes out further down the car, there is the issue of why Eddie picked on the bottom of the door, rather than the external drain holes.  And why the driver side but not the passenger side.

I wonder if I know anyone with a Scenic?

I think the reason the dog perhaps would not have smelt the same smell from the boot or other door is due to the nature of the way odours disperse. If you think of the way smoke curls and disperses perhaps it's similar to that. It doesn't just disperse evenly it becomes concentrated and collects in certain places. Martin Grimes talks about how these odours can collect in a certain place when Eddie alerts inside the wardrobe.

[pegasus]

If it was due to holes in the door, why wasn't the same true of the passenger side?  If the driver door has drain holes, wouldn't the passenger side have the same?  Therefore an air and scent passageway?

If the water from the door drips onto the door footplate, which is then angled to expel the water, we are back to seals that don't seal.  And it should be the same on the passenger side, which was missing an alert.

If it goes out further down the car, there is the issue of why Eddie picked on the bottom of the door, rather than the external drain holes.  And why the driver side but not the passenger side.

I wonder if I know anyone with a Scenic?

You are assuming that the airflow through the drainholes on all doors is identical. With unequal temperatures and convection currents the in/out airflow will be different for each door. (Edit, this is same as what lordpookies posted).
BTW there are car auctions in many towns. 

[Anna]

Off Topic posts will be deleted

[/b]

[sadie]

You are assuming that the airflow through the drainholes on all doors is identical. With unequal temperatures and convection currents the in/out airflow will be different for each door. (Edit, this is same as what lordpookies posted).
BTW there are car auctions in many towns.

Hang on a minute.  You are now talking as tho' drain holes thru doors are a fact.


If there were drain holes thru the doors, why would they bother to fit seals around the doors?


It just doesn't make sense.   
Where air, scent, water can escape so can air. scent and water enter.  It is a two way thing and via the lower part of the door would cause wind and draughts and wetness and out side smells to penetrate.


In an earlier post by, I think Pfinder, she quoted some car information that stated that air came in via the front and exited via exhausters at the rear.


Now that makes sense. 
Air from under the bonnet is dry, capable of being warmed and also capable of being dissipated over a wide area within the car thus avoiding draughts .



Without any proof or even likelyhood, can we please STOP the SPECULATION about drain holes in the door.    


No point in having seals if there are holes letting air and water out and in

[pegasus]

Hang on a minute.  You are now talking as tho' drain holes thru doors are a fact.


If there were drain holes thru the doors, why would they bother to fit seals around the doors?


It just doesn't make sense.   
Where air, scent, water can escape so can air. scent and water enter.  It is a two way thing and via the lower part of the door would cause wind and draughts and wetness and out side smells to penetrate.


In an earlier post by, I think Pfinder, she quoted some car information that stated that air came in via the front and exited via exhausters at the rear.


Now that makes sense. 
Air from under the bonnet is dry, capable of being warmed and also capable of being dissipated over a wide area within the car thus avoiding draughts .



Without any proof or even likelyhood, can we please STOP the SPECULATION about drain holes in the door.    


No point in having seals if there are holes letting air and water out and in

Car doors have drain hole at bottom.
To let out water which accidentally gets inside the door if the window seal wears.
Search a video site for: water in car door

[Anna]

Car doors have drain hole at bottom.
To let out water which accidentally gets inside the door if the window seal wears.
Search a video site for: water in car door

Only lets water out from the internal area of the door …..not the inside rubber sealed side of the car. Please correct me if I misunderstood this.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My car door has water in it. How do I keep it from getting in?
I have a 03 Monte Carlo, the passenger door gets water in it. It will only drain out when the door is open. I have looked at the window gaskets and they look just like the ones on the driver side.


Best Answer: Make sure that the drain holes are clear first. If not, then use a small screwdriver to open them up. You will have to replace the seals against the glass to help keep the water out. You can also remove the door panel and use a hose to determine where the water is coming in at.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081108131138AAg630M

[Wonderfulspam]

Car door seals are not 100% air & water tight.

Women wouldn't understand this because they know precisely nothing about cars.