Author Topic: Amaral and the dogs  (Read 841512 times)

0 Members and 9 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #960 on: July 14, 2015, 08:50:18 PM »
If they were searching remote uninhabited areas, there was a chance that they would find someone,,,if someone was there that is. They were basically Public control trained, but they did have some training in tracking(of some sort)
Therefore it is a waste of time and effort to keep asking why they were used, Mercury, when none of us know the answer.

No Anna you have got it  wrong 

there were two types of dogs

one type was tasked to find a missing person

The other type was taskedto search fields etc

Do you understand thedifference?



Offline Anna

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #961 on: July 14, 2015, 08:57:49 PM »
No Anna you have got it  wrong 

there were two types of dogs

one type was tasked to find a missing person

The other type was taskedto search fields etc

Do you understand thedifference?

Yes. Well I thought I understood Mercury. So if a dog is searching a field , what do you think it was searching for?
I was not aware that one of dogs was trained to find a specific person on that day.
 I am interested in your reply. I haven't really studied the GNR dogs in this case. I know that an air scenting dog was discussed a while back.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #962 on: July 14, 2015, 09:05:32 PM »
Yes. Well I thought I understood Mercury. So if a dog is searching a field , what do you think it was searching for?
I was not aware that one of dogs was trained to find a specific person on that day.
 I am interested in your reply. I haven't really studied the GNR dogs in this case. I know that an air scenting dog was discussed a while back.

The type tasked to search fields was probably looking for rabbits ....

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #963 on: July 14, 2015, 09:17:26 PM »
Yes. Well I thought I understood Mercury. So if a dog is searching a field , what do you think it was searching for?
I was not aware that one of dogs was trained to find a specific person on that day.
 I am interested in your reply. I haven't really studied the GNR dogs in this case. I know that an air scenting dog was discussed a while back.

Im as bemused as you

The portuguese police had dogs
Some of these dogs were said by them trained to find missing persons

The dogs were given the childs personal effects

Some Posters onhere  say they werent trained to personal scents

Ok

So I ask them what they searched for then? how does a  dog search if it doesnt know what its sesrching for!!!








Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #964 on: July 14, 2015, 09:18:29 PM »
The type tasked to search fields was probably looking for rabbits ....


 @)(++(*

« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 10:18:51 PM by Anna »

Offline Anna

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #965 on: July 14, 2015, 09:25:42 PM »
Im as bemused as you

The portuguese police had dogs
Some of these dogs were said by them trained to find missing persons

The dogs were given the childs personal effects

Some Posters onhere  say they werent trained to personal scents

Ok

So I ask them what they searched for then? how does a  dog search if it doesnt know what its sesrching for!!!

I think the dogs search for the scent of a person(any person) Mercury.
I have no idea why they were given an article to sniff and it seems no one else knows either.

There is some posts here about air scenting dogs
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2678.msg105032#msg105032
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #966 on: July 14, 2015, 09:40:48 PM »
I think the dogs search for the scent of a person(any person) Mercury.
I have no idea why they were given an article to sniff and it seems no one else knows either.

There is some posts here about air scenting dogs
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2678.msg105032#msg105032


So the police sent dogs out to scent nothng?
Bizarre

Offline G-Unit

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #967 on: July 14, 2015, 10:04:14 PM »
What on earth did both dogs follow then? Both dogs started at the same place and followed the same route to the same place. Why? Sheer accident? There must have been loads of scents of people leaving G5A and turning right out of the car park, then right again to the Tapas entrance. Neither dog did that, they turned left and went to block 4, then behind the blocks  to the path running behind the gardens.
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline Anna

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #968 on: July 14, 2015, 10:34:21 PM »
At least one of the original dogs had some training in tracking, so he possibly could sniff and use the scent. So possibly did scent something?
In general I think it was air scenting dogs that were used.

A wee bit of info

AIR SCENT DOGS

The air scent dog is the type most frequently encountered. This dog finds lost people by picking up traces of human scent that are drifting in the air, and looks for the "cone" of scent where it is most concentrated. This dog will not normally discriminate scents, so there is the possibility of a "false alarm" if other people (searchers, citizens) are nearby. Airscent dogs work best in situations such as large parks or private lands that are closed at the time, since the dog will home in on any human scent. The success of an air scent dog will be affected by a number of factors, including wind conditions, air temperature, time of day, terrain, and presence or absence of contamination (auto exhaust, smoke, etc.). The best conditions for air scent dogs to work are early mornings or late afternoons on cool, cloudy days when there is a light wind.

TRAILING DOGS

The trailing dog is often referred to as a "tracking" dog, although "tracking" and "trailing" are not the same to the purist. The trailing dog is directed to find a specific person by following minute particles of human tissue or skin cells cast off by the person as he or she travels. These heavier-than-air particles, which contain this person's scent, will normally be close to the ground or on nearby foliage, so the trailing dog will frequently have its "nose the ground," unlike the air scent dog.

A Bloodhound is typically trained for scent discrimination. Each dog is usually worked in a harness, on a leash, and given an uncontaminated scent article (such as a piece of clothing) belonging to the missing person. The dog follows that scent and no other. At times, the dog may track, following the person's footsteps, or air scent, and home in on the subject's scent.
Field contamination (scent of others) should not affect his work. He should be able to trail scents on pavements, streets, grass, water, etc. If there is a good scent article and a point where the person was last seen, a trailing dog can be the fastest way to find the victim. Without the scent article and a point where the person was last seen, these dogs cannot work effectively.

While those are the two standard types of search and rescue dogs, there are also other dogs trained to find lost people.

TRACKING DOG

A tracking dog is trained to follow the path of a certain person. It physically tracks the path of the person, without relying on air scenting. This dog is usually worked in a harness and on leash. This type of dog is effective when pursuing an escaped criminal if no scent article is available. These dogs are also used successfully in search and rescue operations.

http://www.ussartf.org/dogs_search_rescue.htm

“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline misty

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #969 on: July 14, 2015, 10:39:18 PM »
Here you go Misty,

16 sep 2004 CM



The authorities also decided to investigate again the family of small Joana, 8 years of age, as well as various other people that could provide clues about the mysterious case. The truth, however, is that the efforts made have had no effect. Leonor Cipriano, the mother of the child already speaks in "abduction" and asks: "Don't do evil to Joana".
Second found the CM, two teams cinotecnicas (man/dog) were used in the actions of search triggered in the fields around this rural village. The soldiers were conducting, including various wells, a stream and a channel for irrigation which passes close to the village, disproved the existence of traces of the girl.
http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/nacional/atualidade/mae-confessa-morte-da-filha-por-acidente

Thank you for that, Anna. I'm not very familiar with most of the finer details of the investigation into Joana's disappearance.
It's a shame there isn't a little more information regarding any trailing done from the family home.

Offline Anna

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #970 on: July 14, 2015, 10:48:44 PM »
Thank you for that, Anna. I'm not very familiar with most of the finer details of the investigation into Joana's disappearance.
It's a shame there isn't a little more information regarding any trailing done from the family home.

I will have a look, Misty, but I don't think there was.
Their home didn't even have the road built at that time, so I should imagine it was all of the area surrounding it that was being searched. Also wells etc.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline John

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #971 on: July 14, 2015, 11:21:18 PM »
Two sniffer dogs from the GNR specialised dog unit in Queluz were deployed at 11pm on the 4th May ie some 24 hours after Madeleine disappeared.  Handler Sgt Antonio Silva states in his report...

The deponent states that:
 - He comes to the process in the role of Chief of the GNR Search and Rescue Team. He coordinated all the work carried out by the two sniffer dogs in the Luz zone and the immediate areas relating to the disappearance of the English minor Madeleine McCann from the Ocean Club.
 - He remembers that on the 4th of May of the current year, around 23H00, they attempted to tentatively identify and thus reconstruct the path taken by the missing minor. They gave the dogs a Turkish bath towel which was supposedly used by the child in question. This operation was realised by two different dogs.
 - That after having given the sniffer dog the towel and next to the residence of the missing girl, more specifically, next to apartment block 5A and 5, the first sniffer dog headed toward the door of that apartment. Immediately afterward, he headed in the direction of block 4, returned around block 5, and came down a road that exists between this block and the leisure area (pools, restaurants, etc). He turned right; in the direction of the aforementioned apartment and headed toward the main road. There, he crossed the street and next to the wall of block 6, turned right, and headed toward the contiguous parking area. More concretely, he headed next to a light post and sniffed the ground around that post. After this, he crossed the street again and headed toward the access zone to the restaurants and pool area, sniffing the door which was closed at that time. He again went to the parking zone, and at that point, lost the scent.
 - When carrying out this operation with the second dog, he followed the same rout, took the same direction and headed toward the light post in the parking lot mentioned above. He sniffed the area and at that point appeared to have lost the scent. The only difference was that this dog did not head toward the entrance of the restaurant or the pool area.


www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ANTONIO_SILVA.htm




Sniffer dogs both lost Madeleine's scent by the lamp post shown in the foreground giving support to the theory that she somehow got out of the apartment on her own but was lifted having crossed the road to the car park.

It is worth pointing out that none of the specialist dogs marked the route taken by Tannerman.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 11:40:22 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Anna

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #972 on: July 14, 2015, 11:31:25 PM »
Mystery solved then John.  8((()*/
These dogs were in fact trailing/tracking dogs?
Thank goodness that is sorted....I hope.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline John

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #973 on: July 14, 2015, 11:41:43 PM »
Mystery solved then John.  8((()*/
These dogs were in fact trailing/tracking dogs?
Thank goodness that is sorted....I hope.

I think it was worth the effort as I now realise three types of dogs were used by various specialist units within the GNR.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #974 on: July 14, 2015, 11:45:46 PM »
Not when Kate said all the gates were closed. Unless you're calling her a liar  8)--))

A nearly 4-year-old could easily get over a child gate.  My grandson (19 months) can climb out of his high sided cot.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 11:53:20 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.