Amaral and the dogs

[ferryman]

What does Kate's clothing have to do with the fact the inspections were screwed up?

From the files, the closest we get to an explanation of the inspection at the gym is this:

Following the search effected at Rua das Flores, 27, during which certain items were seized, this present inspection was performed, in a place appropriated for its purpose, [the gym!] attempting to identify particular pieces of clothing possibly indicated by the dogs, namely Eddy [that] indicates cadaver odours and Kila [that] indicates blood odours.

There was only one, apparent, "reaction" at the Rua das Flores, 27, and that was to cuddle-cat.

[pegasus]

It is likely the clothes were taken out with them at the start of the holiday ... but there is nothing to prove it.

And BTW it's proven this clothing item was already owned before Apr 28th.
Next to identify its exact location in the apartment...
IMO it is visible directly above the plane top in the pile in the PJ photo that night.

[pegasus]

What does Kate's clothing have to do with the fact the inspections were screwed up?

From the files, the closest we get to an explanation of the inspection at the gym is this:

Following the search effected at Rua das Flores, 27, during which certain items were seized, this present inspection was performed, in a place appropriated for its purpose, [the gym!] attempting to identify particular pieces of clothing possibly indicated by the dogs, namely Eddy [that] indicates cadaver odours and Kila [that] indicates blood odours.

There was only one, apparent, "reaction" at the Rua das Flores, 27, and that was to cuddle-cat.

There are two "reactions" seen in the villa video. Neither is to the cat IMO. The first is to something on top of the sideboard because that is where the dog sniffed just before he "reacted". The second "reaction" is possibly to a dining chair or to the area near that chair.

[ferryman]

There are two "reactions" seen in the villa video. Neither is to the cat IMO. The first is to something on top of the sideboard because that is where the dog sniffed just before he "reacted". The second "reaction" is possibly to a dining chair or to the area near that chair.

'Can you confirm if the signal given regarding the stuffed toy corresponds to a concrete alert of detection of a cadaver, or a mere trick played by the dog''


The dogs were not taught any 'tricks'. EVRD 'signalled' the toy, which at my request was retained by the Judicial Police for future forensic analysis. I have no knowledge of the results of any forensic analysis on the toy.

(Martin Grime)

Under other circumstances, I might ask what the hell your opinion has to do with anything ....

[mercury]

And BTW it's proven this clothing item was already owned before Apr 28th.
Next to identify its exact location in the apartment...
IMO it is visible directly above the plane top in the pile in the PJ photo that night.

That orange and white "blob" in the wardrobe photo looks nothing like the red t-shirt. It is futile trying to match clear large photos of clothing items with that blurry pile IMO unless there is something substantial to work with. You reckon that the white on the orange background is one of the planes on the red t shirt...the scale of the item in the wardrobe picture would be all wrong for starters, iyswim

But let's say all three/four tems Eddie picked up in the gym inspection were there. What is your argument again?

That they were not being worn on May 3 because they were in the wardrobe at 3am or whenever it was these photos were taken. That doesn't matter very much IF cadaver odour was on them. The scent is easily transferable we are told, either naturally from an original source or by contamination by humans.
TBH I'm finding it hard to follow any full theory here.

[pegasus]

That orange and white "blob" in the wardrobe photo looks nothing like the red t-shirt. It is futile trying to match clear large photos of clothing items with that blurry pile IMO unless there is something substantial to work with. You reckon that the white on the orange background is one of the planes on the red t shirt...the scale of the item in the wardrobe picture would be all wrong for starters, iyswim

But let's say all three/four tems Eddie picked up in the gym inspection were there. What is your argument again?

That they were not being worn on May 3 because they were in the wardrobe at 3am or whenever it was these photos were taken. That doesn't matter very much IF cadaver odour was on them. The scent is easily transferable we are told, either naturally from an original source or by contamination by humans.
TBH I'm finding it hard to follow any full theory here.

The scale of the fuselage is correct IMO.
And the scale of checks on the item above it IMO.
And I don't have a full theory.

[pathfinder73]

It is likely the clothes were taken out with them at the start of the holiday ... but there is nothing to prove it.

And there's no photos of Kate in PDL before 4 May so you don't know what she was wearing on holiday. About to go back home with no photos of yourself with your kids in PDL. Very strange when you brought a camera. There are big question marks against her before the disappearance. Not watching Madeleine sailing, not bringing the kids to the beach with the others, the series of phone calls just before the reported crying and sleeping in the spare bed the night before the disappearance. And then they do a big family photoshoot with the twins as a family of 4 not long after Madeleine's gone.

1485
 'Was Kate with you''
 
 Reply
 'No, no, Kate didn't come. They, they tended to use the kids club in the afternoon, for the twins as well as Madeleine, and they were the only ones really doing that, as I say, Ella sometimes went in in the afternoon, but the younger ones, you know, none of us put them in in the afternoon. So, again, that's generally why we didn't see them because they had things booked to do in the afternoon without the kids and we didn't. So, you know, we had asked them but, you know, they had tennis lessons or something. So, yeah, we all headed, we headed off and then, once we were on the beach, we were, we were a little while just sort of the women and the kids really playing on the beach, you know, sandcastles and stuff.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

The lesson ended an hour afterwards, close to 4:30PM. Gerry continued playing tennis with a guest called Jxxxxn who belonged to his tennis group, while she went for a jog along the beach, for around half an hour. She saw the others of the group, children and grownups; she was disappointed as nobody had told her they were going to the beach and Madeleine would have loved to have gone with them. She cannot confirm whether she went to the apartment between the tennis game and the jog.

When she finished jogging, around 5:20/5:30PM she went to the Tapas area. Gerry was there, as well as the twins and Madeleine who were eating at separate tables. Madeleine had been taken to the Tapas by the nannies. Her parents were required to sign the register when the meal was over. During the meal Kate asked Madeleine if she was sad because the other children in the group had gone to the beach without her: she replied that she wasn't, but was rather tired. She asked Kate to carry her back to the apartment. Kate agreed, and Gerry led the twins back to the apartment. Tiredness was due to the intense daily activities, not to any sickness.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

 &%+((£

[ferryman]

The plain fact is that there should never have been an inspection at the villa because Madeleine never lived there.

And there should never have been an inspection at the gym because Madeleine never went near the gym.

For a clue to what Grime was playing at, you have to look forward to another continent, a different case and an entirely different discipline. 

[mercury]

The scale of the fuselage is correct IMO.
And the scale of checks on the item above it IMO.
And I don't have a full theory.

This is the red t shirt. As I understand it you are sayng that the image you posted (the orange and white piece)  is a small part of it? It does not scale IMO

[mercury]

The plain fact is that there should never have been an inspection at the villa because Madeleine never lived there.

And there should never have been an inspection at the gym because Madeleine never went near the gym.

For a clue to what Grime was playing at, you have to look forward to another continent, a different case and an entirely different discipline.

No, it is not a plain fact. Seeing as the cadaver dog alerted to their first apartment, they had every reason to check everywhere else. They would be amiss NOT to, Besides, Harrison did recommend all residences and vehicles by the whole group be inspected.

[jassi]

The plain fact is that there should never have been an inspection at the villa because Madeleine never lived there.

And there should never have been an inspection at the gym because Madeleine never went near the gym.

For a clue to what Grime was playing at, you have to look forward to another continent, a different case and an entirely different discipline.

Are you saying that the police are not entitled to look and search where they please?

[ferryman]

This was the full extent of Harrison's recommendations for searches:

Re Visiting Previously Searched Areas.

In considering the two scenarios that Madeleine McCann has been murdered and her body disposed of by a person on foot or in a vehicle, I have reflected on the areas within zone 1 that have been previously searched or subject to forensic examination.

Mark Warner Creche at Praia Da Luz.

This is the location of the last confirmed sighting by a person independent of family members of Madeleine McCann. Although this location was within the original search area it may well benefit from a further search using enhanced detecting methods for human remains. This will depend on the size of any outside grounds and concealed areas inside the building.

McCann's Apartment.

The apartment in which the McCann's had stayed may present further
opportunities to search. The use of a specialist EVRD (Enhanced Victim
Recovery Dog) and CSI dog (human blood detecting dog) could potentially indicate on whether Madeline's blood is in the property or the scent of a dead body is present. In relation to the dead body scent if such a scent is indicated by the EVRD and no body is located it may suggest that a body has been in the property but removed. This search process could be repeated in all the apartments that were occupied by the friends holidaying with the McCann's.
Murat's House and Garden.

The property has been forensically examined to recover any surface trace evidence however the house and gardens may benefit from a fully invasive specialist search to preclude the presence of Madeleine McCann.
A method previously employed on similar cases has been to use the below assets.
Deploy the EVRD to search the house and garden to ensure Madeleine McCann's remains are not present. The dog may also indicate if a body has been stored in the recent past and then moved off the property, though this is not evidential merely intelligence.
Deploy the CSI dog to search the house to locate any human blood.
This will act in support of the forensic examination already completed.
An inhibiting factor will be on areas where Luminol has been used.


Page 2228 :

Deploy geophysical instruments in the house and garden to detect any burial of a body or concealment in voids.

These specialists should be supported by physical search teams exploring and accessing all areas where concealment of a child's body could be made typically 0.5m.

Murat's Vehicles.

All vehicles Murat has had access to have been forensically examined to recover any surface trace evidence however they may all benefit from a full search by the EVRD and CSI dogs. They may be able to detect whether a dead body has been transported in one of the vehicles for intelligence purposes or detect human blood deposits that can be recovered and
examined in a laboratory for Madeleine McCann's blood.

[ferryman]

Are you saying that the police are not entitled to look and search where they please?

I'm saying that there was literally no point in searches in places Madeleine is known never to have gone near.

In fact, that what Mark Harrison says ....

[mercury]

This was the full extent of Harrison's recommendations for searches:

Re Visiting Previously Searched Areas.

In considering the two scenarios that Madeleine McCann has been murdered and her body disposed of by a person on foot or in a vehicle, I have reflected on the areas within zone 1 that have been previously searched or subject to forensic examination.

Mark Warner Creche at Praia Da Luz.

This is the location of the last confirmed sighting by a person independent of family members of Madeleine McCann. Although this location was within the original search area it may well benefit from a further search using enhanced detecting methods for human remains. This will depend on the size of any outside grounds and concealed areas inside the building.

McCann's Apartment.

The apartment in which the McCann's had stayed may present further
opportunities to search. The use of a specialist EVRD (Enhanced Victim
Recovery Dog) and CSI dog (human blood detecting dog) could potentially indicate on whether Madeline's blood is in the property or the scent of a dead body is present. In relation to the dead body scent if such a scent is indicated by the EVRD and no body is located it may suggest that a body has been in the property but removed. This search process could be repeated in all the apartments that were occupied by the friends holidaying with the McCann's.
Murat's House and Garden.

The property has been forensically examined to recover any surface trace evidence however the house and gardens may benefit from a fully invasive specialist search to preclude the presence of Madeleine McCann.
A method previously employed on similar cases has been to use the below assets.
Deploy the EVRD to search the house and garden to ensure Madeleine McCann's remains are not present. The dog may also indicate if a body has been stored in the recent past and then moved off the property, though this is not evidential merely intelligence.
Deploy the CSI dog to search the house to locate any human blood.
This will act in support of the forensic examination already completed.
An inhibiting factor will be on areas where Luminol has been used.


Page 2228 :

Deploy geophysical instruments in the house and garden to detect any burial of a body or concealment in voids.

These specialists should be supported by physical search teams exploring and accessing all areas where concealment of a child's body could be made typically 0.5m.

Murat's Vehicles.

All vehicles Murat has had access to have been forensically examined to recover any surface trace evidence however they may all benefit from a full search by the EVRD and CSI dogs. They may be able to detect whether a dead body has been transported in one of the vehicles for intelligence purposes or detect human blood deposits that can be recovered and
examined in a laboratory for Madeleine McCann's blood.

No, that wasnt the full extent, he also recommended all vehicles the tapas group had access to, and I have no idea why you keep posting things in bold. End of the day was recommendations not an order or warrant, the PJ decided to search further, as is their prerogative as a POLICE FORCE

[ferryman]

No, that wasnt the full extent, he also recommended all vehicles the tapas group had access to, and I have no idea why you keep posting things in bold. End of the day was recommendations not an order or warrant, the PJ decided to search further, as is their prerogative as a POLICE FORCE

I have read Mark Harrison's three reports in their entirety, seemingly more carefully than you.