Amaral and the dogs

[Benice]

I normally keep my pork chops and bacon rashers in my wardrobe, don't you?

But we don't know that Eddie was alerting to the wardrobe - because as Martin Grime has told us - the scent can drift and it's origin is not necessarily at the place where he barked.

[stephen25000]

But we don't know that Eddie was alerting to the wardrobe - because as Martin Grime has told us - the scent can drift and it's origin is not necessarily at the place where he barked.

'drift' ???

 

[Benice]

Not sure. There is an insistence on training on decomposing pig (i.e. NOT for human consumption). We'd be very sick indeed if we ate decomposing pork.

It's not clear however, whether he (or other similarly trained dogs) would react to a discarded week-old uncooked - or even cooked - pork chop forgotten in a rubbish bin.

They may well do, but a visual inspection would presumably determine that the cause of the alert was irrelevant to the investigation and move on.


The U.K. has also approximately six Police dog teams that have been trained
exclusively on decomposing pig remains not for human consumption as
specialist dogs to work off the leash to locate human remains in a wider
variety of scenarios.

(...)

The initial training of the dog was conducted using human blood and
stil born decomposing piglets. The importance of this is that the dog is
introduced to the scent of a decomposing body NOT FOODSTUFF. This
ensures that the dog disregards the 'bacon sandwich' and 'kebab' etc that is
ever present in the background environment. Therefore the dog would
remain efficient searching for a cadaver in a café where the clientele were sat
eating bacon sandwiches.

Grime report

From memory so am not absolutely sure, but didn't Eddie alert to the remnants of pork which had been soaked in petrol and 'cooked'?

[Carana]

Does that mean that Eddie would have been no good detecting human flesh in the home of a cannibal killer, if he'd cooked the flesh first?

LOL

I was wondering about that as well.

If freshly cooked and frozen, perhaps not...

[Carana]

From memory so am not absolutely sure, but didn't Eddie alert to the remnants of pork which had been soaked in petrol and 'cooked'?

Yes.

In training the dog has accurately alerted to a 1 cm cube of pork soaked in petrol for 1 week and then burnt until only a residue remains.

It's not clear if that was from a decomposing piglet or not, though.

[ferryman]

From memory so am not absolutely sure, but didn't Eddie alert to the remnants of pork which had been soaked in petrol and 'cooked'?

In training the dog has accurately alerted to a 1 cm cube of pork soaked in

petrol for 1 week and then burnt until only a residue remains.

(Martin Grime in his profile).

[Eleanor]

I think we need to remember that any Pig Meat used in training will have come from Ungutted Pig.  Pig left with intestines in situ while it decomposed.
So let's cut the pork chop jokes.

[Carew]

I think we need to remember that any Pig Meat used in training will have come from Ungutted Pig.  Pig left with intestines in situ while it decomposed.
So let's cut the pork chop jokes.

Unless the McCanns had purchased tripe and chitterlings..........(or are those delicacies from cattle?)

[Eleanor]

Unless the McCanns had purchased tripe and chitterlings..........(or are those delicacies from cattle?)

The same decomposition would apply.  Unless you fancy eating tripe from ungutted cows.  But I don't think you can get at tripe without first gutting the cow.

[Alfred R Jones]

We're all guessing aren't we?  None of us has the faintest clue what might trigger an alert, and frankly I doubt even the handler can say hand on heart what might potentially trigger an alert. 

[pathfinder73]

But we don't know that Eddie was alerting to the wardrobe - because as Martin Grime has told us - the scent can drift and it's origin is not necessarily at the place where he barked.

And cadavers drift in and out of that apartment all the time. Reminds me of the perfect murder episode - I couldn't believe were were going to believe Kate Prout was dead on the say so of a dog (Eddie).

[Carana]

I think we need to remember that any Pig Meat used in training will have come from Ungutted Pig.  Pig left with intestines in situ while it decomposed.
So let's cut the pork chop jokes.

I'm seriously wondering though.

If bits of whole decomposing (ungutted) piglets are exclusively used, then why would the dogs also alert to dried blood from a living person? Distinct training might be one explanation, but does it make sense that if some poor sod had been mutilated prior to death (e.g., a finger chopped off)  that the dog wouldn't alert to those physical remains?

[Eleanor]

And cadavers drift in and out of that apartment all the time. Reminds me of the perfect murder episode - I couldn't believe were were going to believe Kate Prout was dead on the say so of a dog (Eddie).

Eddie never did find Kate Prout's body.  And it was there all of the time.

[Eleanor]

I'm seriously wondering though.

If bits of whole decomposing (ungutted) piglets are exclusively used, then why would the dogs also alert to dried blood from a living person? Distinct training might be one explanation, but does it make sense that if some poor sod had been mutilated prior to death (e.g., a finger chopped off)  that the dog wouldn't alert to those physical remains?

Blood, I expect.  That's why Eddie was no good as a Cadaver Dog.

[pathfinder73]

Eddie never did find Kate Prout's body.  And it was there all of the time.

That ended up being a no body murder case and the police got the evidence required to convict her husband of murder without the need for the body. If SY believe Maddy is dead then this could be the same - a no body murder case.

"In order to prove that the child is dead it is not necessary to have a body. There is no point in saying that the child is dead, or that the child is alive, what we need is to work the investigation and carry it out to the end, something that was not done." (GA)