Amaral and the dogs

[stephen25000]

I'm waiting for you to tell me how you came up with the story that it's normal for dogs to totally ignore the target several times before alerting

Try watching dogs in action.

This would help.

[stephen25000]

anything close will do

Can you name just one case ?

[Mr Gray]

Can you name just one case ?

Yes .... I can name 2

[stephen25000]

Yes .... I can name 2

I'm waiting.

[Mr Gray]

I'm waiting.

I said I can name 2.... Didn't say  I would

[pegasus]

Misquoting a third party as saying that Madeleine is definitely dead, that her concealed remains are somewhere in close proximity and that someone close (such as her parents!) might be responsible certainly is.

What I quoted first can only be viewed in that context.

I see your point.
But what about your opinion, don't you think it entirely reasonable to consider the hypothetical possibility of death caused by either an unidentified perp, or indeed caused by no perp at all?

[pegasus]

There is a black item at the bottom of the pile in the wardrobe, immediately underneath Sean's red T-shirt. I believe that black item is a top belonging to Kate, which can be seen displayed on the VRD video in the same inspection batch as the 2 rucksacks and being tossed around by Keela.
What is clear (if you believe the testimony of DP) is that the red T-shirt was not being worn by any of the children at the time of his brief visit after 6.30pm, as they were all in their pyjamas, alive & ready for bed. We do not know what Kate was wearing between 6.30 & 8.30, after which time she went out in jeans.
As you rightly pointed out previously, there was insufficient post-mortem time for cadaverine to have developed & been deposited on any of the marked clothing before the parents left the apartment, had anything happened to Madeleine in the interim.
So, if the clothing wasn't contaminated at that stage, what was Eddie really alerting to?

First a general calculation - 6 days of an 8 day trip had been completed. Therefore it is likely that about 75% of the clothing items taken on the trip had already been worn. This means that laundry pile contained probably at least 50% of all the clothing present on that trip. (I'm not counting jackets and coats). So there is a good chance the listed items are there in that photo of the pile, even if we can't see them.
Re the black item thanks I will have a look.
Also interesting is the item almost encircled by the large grey item.
Re the CSST minimum time required, everyone seems to be making an elementary assumption which I don't.

[Alfred R Jones]

The Confessions Of Thomas Quick is the new film about the Swedish serial killer who never was, the case in which Zampo the cadaver dog alerted 46 times in 23 places to body parts that never were.  Looking forward to watching this...  http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/aug/16/confessions-of-thomas-quick-consistently-intriguing-documentary

[Lyall]

The Confessions Of Thomas Quick is the new film about the Swedish serial killer who never was, the case in which Zampo the cadaver dog alerted 46 times in 23 places to body parts that never were.  Looking forward to watching this...  http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/aug/16/confessions-of-thomas-quick-consistently-intriguing-documentary

Bit irrelevant unless that dog was trained the same way as Mr Grime's dogs.

[mercury]

The Confessions Of Thomas Quick is the new film about the Swedish serial killer who never was, the case in which Zampo the cadaver dog alerted 46 times in 23 places to body parts that never were.  Looking forward to watching this...  http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/aug/16/confessions-of-thomas-quick-consistently-intriguing-documentary

As Anna has said already on this thread, it is about Eddie not every cadaver dog in the world and all their different trainings uses glories and failures, why complicate things? Oh..hang on

[Alfred R Jones]

Bit irrelevant unless that dog was trained the same way as Mr Grime's dogs.

What way was that then?  In a foolproof, 100% always right way?

[Alfred R Jones]

As Anna has said already on this thread, it is about Eddie not every cadaver dog in the world and all their different trainings uses glories and failures, why complicate things? Oh..hang on

Unless you or someone can demonstrate with proof that Eddie was a cut above all other cadaver dogs then I'm afraid it is relevant to the discussion. 

[mercury]

Unless you or someone can demonstrate with proof that Eddie was a cut above all other cadaver dogs then I'm afraid it is relevant to the discussion.

It's not a matter of a cut above, it is a matter of not lumping in every cadaver dog, in every country, in every training scenario, every handler, in every case in the world to judge anything

[Alfred R Jones]

It's not a matter of a cut above, it is a matter of not lumping in every cadaver dog, in every country, in every training scenario, every handler, in every case in the world to judge anything

Right, so you make the rules of the discussion do you?  We must not look at any other dogs or handlers or training methods when discussing Eddie and Grime?  Except when it suits you to, for example in the numerous other cases in which cadaver dogs have been lauded for finding bodies and helping to bring successful convictions. 

[mercury]

Right, so you make the rules of the discussion do you?  We must not look at any other dogs or handlers or training methods when discussing Eddie and Grime?  Except when it suits you to, for example in the numerous other cases in which cadaver dogs have been lauded for finding bodies and helping to bring successful convictions. 

No, it is nothing to do with suiting me, its about relevance and also AS I said before Anna (the moderator) has stated we are discussing Amaral and the dog alerts, specifically Eddie,  this thread is not about cadaver dogs in general. Maybe you would like to start a new one or resurrect one of the dozens already on this forum.
Or just carry on, no skin off my nose, just distraction from certain facts and questions in THIS case
such as could Eddie have alerted to pooh or nose snot
 

In any case Grime has told us Eddie was not trained for 'live' human odours as I posted before, but only ones from decomposing bodies with the exception of blood from living humans