Author Topic: Amaral and the dogs  (Read 841547 times)

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Offline pathfinder73

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3120 on: August 19, 2015, 11:36:14 PM »
First a general calculation - 6 days of an 8 day trip had been completed. Therefore it is likely that about 75% of the clothing items taken on the trip had already been worn. This means that laundry pile contained probably at least 50% of all the clothing present on that trip. (I'm not counting jackets and coats). So there is a good chance the listed items are there in that photo of the pile, even if we can't see them.
Re the black item thanks I will have a look.
Also interesting is the item almost encircled by the large grey item.
Re the CSST minimum time required, everyone seems to be making an elementary assumption which I don't.

In this sequence, the deponent and his colleague also taught the mother of the child how to operate the washing machine.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LUIS-FERRO.htm

His services had been requested because the shutters in the bedroom at the back of the apartment, facing the Tapas restaurant were damaged and with the aim of providing the mother with instructions regarding the operation of the washing machine.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARIO_MOREIRA.htm
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Anna

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3121 on: August 19, 2015, 11:40:51 PM »
Comparisons to an extent are allowable.

The post that Mercury is referring to, is I believe one that was questioning and discussing Eddie's training in connection to body fluids and cadaver scent.

Therefore introducing the training method of another dog, who was trained solely on human cadavers
and desensitised to other scents, was inappropriate to the discussion.

However you are reminded to stay within the boundaries of the topic and avoid disrupting the thread.

“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Anna

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3122 on: August 19, 2015, 11:50:36 PM »
In this sequence, the deponent and his colleague also taught the mother of the child how to operate the washing machine.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LUIS-FERRO.htm

His services had been requested because the shutters in the bedroom at the back of the apartment, facing the Tapas restaurant were damaged and with the aim of providing the mother with instructions regarding the operation of the washing machine.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARIO_MOREIRA.htm

That was on the 1st May. Maybe Kate still wasn't happy with the washing machine or didn't have time. We don't know whether she done any washing or not, in other words.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline pegasus

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3123 on: August 19, 2015, 11:58:27 PM »
In this sequence, the deponent and his colleague also taught the mother of the child how to operate the washing machine.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LUIS-FERRO.htm

His services had been requested because the shutters in the bedroom at the back of the apartment, facing the Tapas restaurant were damaged and with the aim of providing the mother with instructions regarding the operation of the washing machine.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARIO_MOREIRA.htm
Taking into account the washing machine, and the airing rack on balcony, IMO a large percentage of the clothes (excluding jackets and coats) taken on this holiday are in the laundry pile on the wardrobe shelf.
This can be estimated by looking at the size of the pile. It is a big pile.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3124 on: August 20, 2015, 12:24:53 AM »
Taking into account the washing machine, and the airing rack on balcony, IMO a large percentage of the clothes (excluding jackets and coats) taken on this holiday are in the laundry pile on the wardrobe shelf.
This can be estimated by looking at the size of the pile. It is a big pile.

Where were all the kids toys?
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline sadie

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3125 on: August 20, 2015, 12:49:12 AM »
Where were all the kids toys?
They wouldn't take many on holiday would they?

On the Eddie video at their later residence, there appear to be some in a box; the box with Ccat on top.

I bet they were given toys by family and friends who came to stay.

Offline pegasus

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3126 on: August 20, 2015, 12:51:36 AM »
Where were all the kids toys?
During the dinner that evening, the toy cat was on the bed nearest the door in the children's bedroom, the 2 special toys of other 2 children were fairly obviously in the 2 cots, and the 2 toy buckets and 2 toy spades were just outside the front door.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 12:54:03 AM by pegasus »

Offline pegasus

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3127 on: August 20, 2015, 01:54:01 AM »
BTW there is a huge illogical assumption made in this case re timeline (+dog/amaral) IMO.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 02:26:14 AM by pegasus »

Offline Carana

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3128 on: August 20, 2015, 11:07:43 AM »
Perhaps someone who has read the Portuguese original would like to comment?

Just had a look. The original doesn't seem to say that there is no doubt that she's dead, but I'm not quite sure what plasmar means... in context, it seems to mean to give shape / form /substance to. Confirmed might be too strong, not sure.

See: http://dictionary.reverso.net/portuguese-english/plasmar

My understanding of that is that Mark's report (whatever plasmar means, gave substance to?) ... the probable / likely scenario that she is dead.

Perhaps Shining or Montclair could help and correct that if I've misunderstood.


FM's cite from the Engligh:
The most plausible scenario is the following: there is no doubt that Madeleine is dead, and her body is hidden somewhere in the area around Praia da Luz.

Original:
Após uma intensa semana de trabalho, Mark apresentou um relatório com as conclusões do seu estudo aos elementos da coordenação e as notícias, apesar de esperadas, não eram as melhores. Na verdade, aquele relatório plasmava uma das piores hipóteses para os investigadores: o provável cenário de Madeleine estar morta , e o seu cadáver escondido nas proximidades da Praia da Luz.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 11:09:44 AM by Carana »

Offline Brietta

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3129 on: August 20, 2015, 11:53:48 AM »
BTW there is a huge illogical assumption made in this case re timeline (+dog/amaral) IMO.

Don't keep it to yourself, Pegasus, your train of thought is usually of interest and often provokes good discussion.  Please tell us what you are thinking re the timeline.


I think there may also be a total irrelevance as to what was where in the apartment at the time when the  crime scene photographs were taken with regard to the dog's supposed alerts in relation to Madeleine McCann.

In my opinion they are rendered meaningless in that context for the simple reason the crime scene did not remain undisturbed in the intervening period between the taking of the photographs and the introduction of the cadaver dog.

The crime scene apartment had been in occupation on at least four occasions within that time span by four different families.

We have no idea what contaminants may have been introduced by all or any one of the individuals who were allowed to reside there or what may have been introduced into the apartment after the McCann family's departure from it leading to the dog's confusion.

We have been consistently misinformed that this could only have been cadaver scent emanating from Madeleine; the fact that cross contamination can occur so readily is vastly underplayed.
One only has to think of the smell on one's clothing after spending time in the company of smokers as an example.

Therefore had the dog made the alert in the immediate aftermath of Madeleine's disappearance the alert could have been attributed to the time of her family's occupation of the apartment.

The whole dog episode is rendered meaningless as this patently was not the case.  It served only as a convenient instrument to implicate Madeleine's parents in her disappearance which vies with Ricardo's Delphic  dream interpretation for a place in the police handbook on ... "how not to".
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Anna

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3130 on: August 20, 2015, 02:41:01 PM »
BTW there is a huge illogical assumption made in this case re timeline (+dog/amaral) IMO.

Are you referring to the alleged accident at 9.15pm ish?
If so, then, No there would definitely be insufficient time for cadaver scent to develop and the disposal of the evidence, before 10pm.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3131 on: August 20, 2015, 03:08:23 PM »
Just had a look. The original doesn't seem to say that there is no doubt that she's dead, but I'm not quite sure what plasmar means... in context, it seems to mean to give shape / form /substance to. Confirmed might be too strong, not sure.

See: http://dictionary.reverso.net/portuguese-english/plasmar

My understanding of that is that Mark's report (whatever plasmar means, gave substance to?) ... the probable / likely scenario that she is dead.

Perhaps Shining or Montclair could help and correct that if I've misunderstood.


FM's cite from the Engligh:
The most plausible scenario is the following: there is no doubt that Madeleine is dead, and her body is hidden somewhere in the area around Praia da Luz.

Original:
Após uma intensa semana de trabalho, Mark apresentou um relatório com as conclusões do seu estudo aos elementos da coordenação e as notícias, apesar de esperadas, não eram as melhores. Na verdade, aquele relatório plasmava uma das piores hipóteses para os investigadores: o provável cenário de Madeleine estar morta , e o seu cadáver escondido nas proximidades da Praia da Luz.
I've got no idea how far plasma can be stretched. 

However, the key phrase seems to be the one you have underlined.  ...the probable scenario that Madeleine was dead ...  One cannot be firm about something that is probable, but not proven.  Therefore I would not use conclude, simply because it implies a certainty that is not there.
What's up, old man?

Offline Carana

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3132 on: August 20, 2015, 03:37:07 PM »
I've got no idea how far plasma can be stretched. 

However, the key phrase seems to be the one you have underlined.  ...the probable scenario that Madeleine was dead ...  One cannot be firm about something that is probable, but not proven.  Therefore I would not use conclude, simply because it implies a certainty that is not there.

Thanks Shining. That's what I thought. In a literal sense, it would seem to mean giving shape to something that didn't have one: the image in my head would be making a sculpture out of shapeless lump of clay (assuming that that is roughly the meaning of the word).

I have a feeling that the French version - on which the English translation was based - wasn't always quite accurate. Perhaps a rushed job.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 03:46:16 PM by Carana »

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3133 on: August 20, 2015, 03:50:21 PM »
Thanks Shining and Carana.

I have seen it said (in writing) that the English translation of Amaral's book is quite poor in places.

Perhaps that's an example.

But that, also, is an object-lesson in why we should be guarded about translation of the files?

Offline Carana

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3134 on: August 20, 2015, 05:03:15 PM »
Thanks Shining and Carana.

I have seen it said (in writing) that the English translation of Amaral's book is quite poor in places.

Perhaps that's an example.

But that, also, is an object-lesson in why we should be guarded about translation of the files?

There is often the PT original statement to double-check in the files, and initial mistakes have been corrected when pointed out.

However, underlying the PT original statements, there is still the fact that the statements involving English-speakers were bashed out based on a 3-way attempt to communicate. There is therefore no way of knowing what misunderstandings there were in the original.

An obvious example (not even due to translation) is that numerous statements concerning people around on the night are almost exactly one hour behind / later than the other half. Unless there is a time warp running through the centre of PdL, something got jumbled...
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 05:06:50 PM by Carana »