Author Topic: Amaral and the dogs  (Read 841492 times)

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stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3180 on: August 21, 2015, 12:28:25 PM »
So there's nothing in the case ....

The alerts ferryman, the alerts.

Dogs respond to what they are trained to do.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3181 on: August 21, 2015, 12:28:41 PM »
Dear oh dear.

It wasn't shouting brietta. @)(++(*

The fact remains, there is nothing in this case, other than the dog alerts.

Opinions don't count as to the 'abduction'.  ?{)(**

Nothing other than the dog alerts.  None of which produced any evidence, let alone proof. So it's still all opinion.  That of Martin Grime, Goncalo Amaral and a load of Internet Posters.

I sometime get overcome by the perfidy of it all, when the whole ghastly mess comes together in my brain.  But like all WTF moments I come back to the same old same old.  There is still nothing to implicate The McCanns.

Keep on taking the pills.  This Topic still has acres to run.

As for Martin Grime and Goncalo Amaral, best I don't pursue that.  And it would take too long anyway.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3182 on: August 21, 2015, 12:30:52 PM »
Nothing other than the dog alerts.  None of which produced any evidence, let alone proof. So it's still all opinion.  That of Martin Grime, Goncalo Amaral and a load of Internet Posters.

I sometime get overcome by the perfidy of it all, when the whole ghastly mess comes together in my brain.  But like all WTF moments I come back to the same old same old.  There is still nothing to implicate The McCanns.

Keep on taking the pills.  This Topic still has acres to run.

As for Martin Grime and Goncalo Amaral, best I don't pursue that.  And it would take too long anyway.

Yes, acres to run, in a Mobius Loop.

Offline Carew

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3183 on: August 21, 2015, 12:34:25 PM »
If Eddie had been outside somewhere looking for cadaver scent of Madeleine,   Grime wouldn't have been able to call him back numerous times as he wouldn't have known what Madeleine had been in contact with.   The fact that Eddie was in 5a a place that Madeleine had been living all week Grime could call Eddie back again and again,  if he hadn't Eddie would have ran out of the bedroom without alerting.

In the other apartments Eddie just ran in and out of the rooms,  Grime didn't call him back constantly to the same room.

If there had been cadaver scent in the bedroom Eddie would have alerted straight away to it.

Eddie alerted straight away to the place where Keela alerted,   a tiny miniscule of what is believed to be blood under one of the tiles,   if that had been from where Madeleine had bled there would have been a lot more blood and Eddie would have alerted to the whole of the area behind the sofa.

So to me,  no,   Eddie did not alert to cadaver scent in 5a.



The initial interest by the dog is recognised by the handler which prompts the attempts to identify and pinpoint the source ?

The "calling back"  also occurred in the bathroom of 5A but no alerts


 *snip *

  "Ok what was done was we deployed the victim recovery dog into the apartment and by experience and the training of the dog what I first noticed is that as soon as I came in that the dog was very excited and as a handler I can pick up his body language etc and it would appear to me that as soon as he has come into the house he's picked up a scent that he recognises and he has then gone through the apartment trying to source where that scent source has come from "

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

Offline Eleanor

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3184 on: August 21, 2015, 12:39:14 PM »
Yes, acres to run, in a Mobius Loop.

Okay.  What's a Mobius Loop?  Let's add a bit of intellect to this thread, even if only briefly.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3185 on: August 21, 2015, 12:40:57 PM »


The initial interest by the dog is recognised by the handler which prompts the attempts to identify and pinpoint the source ?

The "calling back"  also occurred in the bathroom of 5A but no alerts


 *snip *

  "Ok what was done was we deployed the victim recovery dog into the apartment and by experience and the training of the dog what I first noticed is that as soon as I came in that the dog was very excited and as a handler I can pick up his body language etc and it would appear to me that as soon as he has come into the house he's picked up a scent that he recognises and he has then gone through the apartment trying to source where that scent source has come from "

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

I wish I could pick up my dog's body language.  I might be able to stop her pissing on the carpet.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3186 on: August 21, 2015, 12:44:32 PM »
I wish I could pick up my dog's body language.  I might be able to stop her pissing on the carpet.

Hmmmmm!

Not sure about carpets to, but on the occasion Carew refers to, Eddie can be quite clearly seen in the video waiting patiently for Grime to take off his lead ....

Offline Carew

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3187 on: August 21, 2015, 12:45:20 PM »
I wish I could pick up my dog's body language.  I might be able to stop her pissing on the carpet.

Ah well.........were you a professional Piss-Posture- Recognition- Expert you could ply your trade all over and have an enviable earning potential.

Dog owners would be queuing up.

Offline Brietta

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3188 on: August 21, 2015, 12:54:43 PM »
............ so all the alerts and all non- alerts by Eddie at both sites were erroneous in your view?

Apparently you are the one who attaches value to Eddie's alerts.  Ignoring the ones which have been corroborated either forensically or by Keela, why do you think the prosecutors discarded utilising any others in the prosecution of the Drs McCann?
Then you 'only ask questions' and don't really listen to the answer if it doesn't suit ... or such has been my experience.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Anna

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3189 on: August 21, 2015, 12:57:15 PM »
The report added the dogs, which are trained to detect the smell of dead bodies, have "the potential to cause complications in an inquiry".

"There is an urgent need to have national policy on their training, accreditation and deployment," it concluded.

http://news.sky.com/story/844071/sniffer-dogs-can-hinder-police-work


What an interesting thing for you to say, " ... ... ... it wasn't a false alert the dogs detected the scent of death, just the wrong death."
Thankfully, Shannon was and is alive ... but precious time was taken up by the dogs' positive alert to human remains which might have altered that situation.


What an indictment you make of Mr Amaral and the quality of the investigation led by him and his team.  You seem to find the incompetence of the biggest mistake in the book laudable.

"Amaral and his team already suspected the McCanns of something, the dog alerts seemed to confirm their suspicions."

Are you really having a laugh here?

No competent investigation twists the evidence to suit the theory ... particularly when there is no evidence to begin with ... "seemed" just doesn't cut the mustard.

As far as Mr Amaral's investigation finding nothing is concerned, that is hardly surprising if you are not looking.
For example Heri makes very good points regarding the phone data  http://espacioexterior.blogspot.co.uk/  which he is not presently allowed to access most of which was ignored by the Amaral investigation and which competent investigators from the PJ and SY had to check out years down the line. 
Investigators who are of the opinion that in the absence of evidence to the contrary Madeleine may well be alive and was the victim of a stranger abduction.

That the Amaral investigation relied on unsubstantiated dog alerts and an alleged dream to make Madeleine's parents suspect in her disappearance is risible if it wasn't so serious, but it certainly highlights the amateur manner in which he conducted his investigation.

Because a dog alerted to the scent of death in the home of Shannon Mathews,
I do wonder what conclusion would have been arrived at, had the child been found deceased in a wood or somewhere else.
Would they have investigated the possibility of the furniture in the home, being purchased from a deceased person?
How could they know that the scent that was supposedly alerted too, was on furniture or who that scent belonged too?
How do you check any antique or pre-owned furniture you may purchase, for cadaver scent? You can not!

There are so many possible reasons for an alert of cadaver dog, that I do not believe any can be reliable, unless a body is found in the location of that alert. Just my opinion, of course.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Carew

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3190 on: August 21, 2015, 01:07:30 PM »
Hmmmmm!

Not sure about carpets to, but on the occasion Carew refers to, Eddie can be quite clearly seen in the video waiting patiently for Grime to take off his lead ....

Not so.........the lead was taken off outside the apartment.

The occasion I referred to was inside the apartment. Mr Grime says "as soon as I came in......."


Offline Eleanor

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3191 on: August 21, 2015, 01:07:57 PM »
Hmmmmm!

Not sure about carpets to, but on the occasion Carew refers to, Eddie can be quite clearly seen in the video waiting patiently for Grime to take off his lead ....

Yes he can be seen waiting patiently.  I have often wondered about, especially as Eddie wasn't particularly well behaved.

As for my dog, she is old and demented, and I can't quite bring myself to have her put down.  Yet.

However, it's interesting to discover that dogs have body language, beyond, "Where the hell is my dinner, you useless article of a dog owner."

I shall view those Videos in a different light in future.  Presuming that I can be bothered to look at them again.

Some of you really don't know what I subject myself to, in the interests of this Forum.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3192 on: August 21, 2015, 01:12:27 PM »
Ah well.........were you a professional Piss-Posture- Recognition- Expert you could ply your trade all over and have an enviable earning potential.

Dog owners would be queuing up.
.

Oh dear.  Now that is really funny.  It made me laugh out loud.

And Eddie did seem to have a bit of a problem with Martin Grime's.

PS.  I have tried pointing at the offending puddle and telling her that she is for the chop if she doesn't mend her ways.  But she obviously doesn't get my body language.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3193 on: August 21, 2015, 01:14:53 PM »
Because a dog alerted to the scent of death in the home of Shannon Mathews,
I do wonder what conclusion would have been arrived at, had the child been found deceased in a wood or somewhere else.
Would they have investigated the possibility of the furniture in the home, being purchased from a deceased person?
How could they know that the scent that was supposedly alerted too, was on furniture or who that scent belonged too?
How do you check any antique or pre-owned furniture you may purchase, for cadaver scent? You can not!

There are so many possible reasons for an alert of cadaver dog, that I do not believe any can be reliable, unless a body is found in the location of that alert. Just my opinion, of course.

In a nut shell, Mrs. Senior Moderator.  Spot on as usual.

Offline Carew

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3194 on: August 21, 2015, 01:16:14 PM »
Apparently you are the one who attaches value to Eddie's alerts.  Ignoring the ones which have been corroborated either forensically or by Keela, why do you think the prosecutors discarded utilising any others in the prosecution of the Drs McCann?
Then you 'only ask questions' and don't really listen to the answer if it doesn't suit ... or such has been my experience.

Your "experience" or assessments of other posters are neither here nor there.

You seem to need to resort to it though.

Are you not "only asking questions" of the alerts and the handler, then?