Amaral and the dogs

[Carana]

True.

But if it wasn't blood, then Keela alerted falsely.

We don't know that, either, though.

In the Jersey notes, Grime describes the alerts as:

Both the EVRD and Human blood search dog are presumptive screening assets. Any alert indications given MUST be forensically corroborated to be conclusive.
http://voiceforprotest.blogspot.com/2010/03/operation-rectangle-summary-report.html

[Jean-Pierre]

You can google and still not understand.

One poster the other day was quoting 'r' values in relation to testing procedures.

They didn't appear to know what they represented.

In case it helps 'r' values normally relate to correlation values.

We can agree on that.

But I am not sure that any of us have a sufficiently detailed knowledge of any of the areas that this case touches on without needed to rely on some reference source.

[ferryman]

We don't know that, either, though.

In the Jersey notes, Grime describes the alerts as:

Both the EVRD and Human blood search dog are presumptive screening assets. Any alert indications given MUST be forensically corroborated to be conclusive.
http://voiceforprotest.blogspot.com/2010/03/operation-rectangle-summary-report.html

And yet, in his PdL profile, Grime says that Keela is capable of detecting blood to levels beyond the capability of any forensic laboratory to detect.

I guess that's all part of the glorious paradox that is Martin Grime ....

[ferryman]

I am at a loss to understand why any true scientist would have difficulty understanding that the dog alerts in the (shelved) Madeleine enquiry are not worth a bean ....

[pegasus]

Behaviour outside each apartment - please someone add the two other times?
http://youtu.be/c4NMYPsFKb8
5A:
5B: 38:10
5D: 41:39
5H: 46:37
4G:

[Benice]

I'm not befitting people who use google.

I just don't agree with those who google knowledge and then pretend to be experts in that field of knowledge.

Research helps, but it doesn't necessarily make you an expert.

No-one is claiming to be an expert - they are backing up their claims with appropriate cites.      Something which you repeatedly refuse to do IMO.

However,  the subject of Dog Handling/Training is hardly on a par with Astro Physics - and AFAIK a university degree is not a requirement in order to understand the subject well enough to express an informed opinion on it - backed up by cites from people who ARE experts.

Your reason for attempting to 'shut down' discussion on this subject (simply because you don't happen to agree with)  - by accusing people of not being qualified to discuss it doesn't wash IMO.   

[stephen25000]

No-one is claiming to be an expert - they are backing up their claims with appropriate cites.      Something which you repeatedly refuse to do IMO.

However,  the subject of Dog Handling/Training is hardly on a par with Astro Physics - and AFAIK a university degree is not a requirement in order to understand the subject well enough to express an informed opinion on it - backed up by cites from people who ARE experts.

Your reason for attempting to 'shut down' discussion on this subject (simply because you don't happen to agree with)  - by accusing people of not being qualified to discuss it doesn't wash IMO.

The clear attempts to attack Martin Grime and to belittle him and the dogs indications, are what mccann supporters are all about on there.

Anyone who thinks anything else is deluded.

[Jean-Pierre]

No-one is claiming to be an expert - they are backing up their claims with appropriate cites.      Something which you repeatedly refuse to do IMO.

However,  the subject of Dog Handling/Training is hardly on a par with Astro Physics - and AFAIK a university degree is not a requirement in order to understand the subject well enough to express an informed opinion on it - backed up by cites from people who ARE experts.

Your reason for attempting to 'shut down' discussion on this subject (simply because you don't happen to agree with)  - by accusing people of not being qualified to discuss it doesn't wash IMO.

Of course Martin Marime is quite clear- the dog alerts are of no evidential or intelligence value without forensic corroboration.

So it is intriguing that some posters are choosing to ignore this, and try to place intelligence and evidential value on the alerts, contrary to Martin Grime's own advice.

This suggests that those posters think they know better than an experienced dog handler. 



 

[ferryman]

Of course Martin Marime is quite clear- the dog alerts are of no evidential or intelligence value without forensic corroboration.

So it is intriguing that some posters are choosing to ignore this, and try to place intelligence and evidential value on the alerts, contrary to Martin Grime's own advice.

This suggests that those posters think they know better than an experienced dog handler.

I repeat a question I asked earlier this morning:

Why did Mark Harrison dismiss both inspections at villa and gym with these terse words?

On 02-08-07 the PJ conducted a search warrant at a villa in Praia da Luz currently occupied by the McCann family.
 
Later the same day PJ officers conducted a screening procedure involving items removed from the McCann’s villa.


Didn't even acknowledge that Grime and his dogs had taken part.

[stephen25000]

Of course Martin Marime is quite clear- the dog alerts are of no evidential or intelligence value without forensic corroboration.

So it is intriguing that some posters are choosing to ignore this, and try to place intelligence and evidential value on the alerts, contrary to Martin Grime's own advice.

This suggests that those posters think they know better than an experienced dog handler.

Yet they remain the only the focus of contention in this case.

There is nothing else even remotely pointing to Madeleine's fate.

[Jean-Pierre]

Yet they remain the only the focus of contention in this case.

There is nothing else even remotely pointing to Madeleine's fate.

So given the lack of corroborating evidence, does r=0

[stephen25000]

So given the lack of corroborating evidence, does r=0

What are the bivariate factors being tested jp ?

Are they qualitative or quantitative ?

[mercury]

still no cite.......no surprise

Why is it such a surprise? Do I make a habit of not providing cites when asked? Tut tut.

You have read the files you claim, you should then not require a cite should you? but just so as it doesn't bother you all day, let us recap

I said that Mark Harrison called the alerts without forensic corroboration unconfirmed indications, and that is precisely what he said. So, no, you were very wrong when you accused me of making it up , such haste and willingness to disbelieve a simple statement

Here is your cite, I await your apology in due course (when pigs grow wings of course)

During the searches two Police dogs were deployed and although it has been stated that no physical remains were located in the area these dogs did give indications in several areas. These areas have been subject to a separate forensic examination that is beyond the scope of this report and at the time of writing laboratory tests are being undertaken. The dogs’ handler has submitted a separate report regarding the performance of the dogs (see appendix 4). However, it must be stated any such indications without any physical evidence to support them can not have any evidential value, being unconfirmed INDICATIONS Additionally I consider no inference can be drawn as to whether a human cadaver has previously been in any location without other supporting physical evidence

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

So there we have it, alerts remain indications

[Benice]

The clear attempts to attack Martin Grime and to belittle him and the dogs indications, are what mccann supporters are all about on there.

Anyone who thinks anything else is deluded.

On the contrary Stephen - it is those sceptics who believe that because Eddie barked - that is proof that a dead body must have been in 5A who are the people refusing to believe Martin Grime and therefore belittling his statements.

No 'supporter' has ever made that erroneous claim which is in direct opposition to Martin Grime's clear assertion that such alerts have no evidential value unless they are corroborated.    M. Harrison has also confirmed that uncorroborated alerts do not prove the existence of a dead body. 

So you are pointing at the wrong people IMO.


     

[Jean-Pierre]

What are the bivariate factors being tested jp ?

Are they qualitative or quantitative ?

There you go again Stephen - why can you not say "which variables are being tested"?  And "are they number based or quality based"

Why do you have to try to prove how clever you are with trotting out jargon - I have heard it said that the hallmark of a true expert is the ability to explain things to a layman simply.