Author Topic: Amaral and the dogs  (Read 841566 times)

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Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4515 on: August 29, 2015, 10:42:21 PM »
so it seems there is a secret report available only to mercury where grime says eddie alerts to cadaver most of the time

and to think mercury had the gall to criticise my post...absolutely priceless

2/3 is most of the time...better than bleating Eddie alerts to blood so that explains everything which patently wasn't the case by any stretch of the imagnation ,isn't it! Einstein.

Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4516 on: August 29, 2015, 10:47:23 PM »
It is all there in that report. All along I have said Mr Grime said blood could be a reason for the EVRD dog alerts in the car searches in the garage but in the villa/clothing and in his summary he states just cadaverscent contaminant

This bit?  "My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is
suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant"

 

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4517 on: August 29, 2015, 10:48:30 PM »
This bit?  "My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is
suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant"

Yes, JP, all "those bits"

Did you have a further question?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4518 on: August 29, 2015, 10:49:24 PM »
This bit?  "My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is
suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant"

I think what mercury is  saying is that you are being picky by quoting grime's exact words because it's quite acceptable to miss a few out...add a few on... and still claim that's what Grime said

Offline Benice

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4519 on: August 29, 2015, 10:53:22 PM »
It's also a fact that Eddie could not tell Grime how old the scent was, or whether it was from above or below ground, or whether the original source was at the spot where he barked or whether the scent  had drifted there from elsewhere.     Or even if it had been innocently transferred there from an outside source by cross contamination.

Hence his statement that the alerts are of no use unless they can be corroborated.   Without corroboration there are just too many variances which could have nothing to do with Madeleine which could have resulted in an alert.

So ultimately  - they add nothing to the investigation.

Quote from Amarals book:

Eddie is always the first to be brought onto a site. Once he has discerned the odour that he knows so well, it’s Keela’s turn to go into action, on the lookout for the slightest whiff of blood.   The simultaneous presence of the two elements in a given place - blood and cavaver odours - is taken to indicate that a body has been there and that it’s probably there that the death occurred.
Unquote

Amaral was obviously unaware (or chose to ignore)  that Eddie also alerted to blood - which included blood from living people  - and so what he claims in his book is patently seriously flawed.    I cannot help but  wonder how many people who read it - believed what he claimed and judged the McCanns guilty as a result.



The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4520 on: August 29, 2015, 10:56:35 PM »
It's also a fact that Eddie could not tell Grime how old the scent was, or whether it was from above or below ground, or whether the original source was at the spot where he barked or whether the scent  had drifted there from elsewhere.     Or even if it had been innocently transferred there from an outside source by cross contamination.

Hence his statement that the alerts are of no use unless they can be corroborated.   Without corroboration there are just too many variances which could have nothing to do with Madeleine which could have resulted in an alert.

So ultimately  - they add nothing to the investigation.

Quote from Amarals book:

Eddie is always the first to be brought onto a site. Once he has discerned the odour that he knows so well, it’s Keela’s turn to go into action, on the lookout for the slightest whiff of blood.   The simultaneous presence of the two elements in a given place - blood and cavaver odours - is taken to indicate that a body has been there and that it’s probably there that the death occurred.
Unquote

Amaral was obviously unaware (or chose to ignore)  that Eddie also alerted to blood - which included blood from living people  - and so what he claims in his book is patently seriously flawed.    I cannot help but  wonder how many people who read it - believed what he claimed and judged the McCanns guilty as a result.

Cadaver dog news was all over the papers in August 2007, and beyond,can't blame Amaral for that now, since h book was a whle year after, steady on

Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4521 on: August 29, 2015, 10:57:37 PM »
Yes, JP, all "those bits"

Did you have a further question?

Is that all he said? The complete quote?
« Last Edit: August 29, 2015, 11:00:44 PM by Jean-Pierre »

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4522 on: August 29, 2015, 10:58:24 PM »
Cadaver dog news was all over the papers in August 2007, and beyond,can't blame Amaral for that now, since h book was a whle year after, steady on

seems like you have spilled your drink on your keyboard

Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4523 on: August 29, 2015, 11:22:28 PM »
Yes, JP, all "those bits"

Did you have a further question?

"My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is
suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant"

Now Mercury -is that the complete statement from Grime?

And was it written before,or after,the FSS report?




Offline Benice

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4524 on: August 29, 2015, 11:24:16 PM »
Cadaver dog news was all over the papers in August 2007, and beyond,can't blame Amaral for that now, since h book was a whle year after, steady on

IMO Mercury there is a big difference between newspaper articles and a claim made in a book written by the Lead investigator of a case.    That latter fact alone would carry a lot of clout with his readers IMO.
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4525 on: August 29, 2015, 11:28:57 PM »
"My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is
suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant"

Now Mercury -is that the complete statement from Grime?

And was it written before,or after,the FSS report?

No it obviously isn't his complete statement but the point under discussion was whether he said the dog alerts were connected with cadaver scent....fast forward.....it doesn't matter when it was written...the FSS have no ability to test cadaver scent....

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4526 on: August 29, 2015, 11:31:27 PM »
IMO Mercury there is a big difference between newspaper articles and a claim made in a book written by the Lead investigator of a case.    That latter fact alone would carry a lot of clout with his readers IMO.

Well, I disagree with your opinion as books TV online reports are all interchangeable these days...the fact remains the cadaver alerts were a massive turning point and under major discussion in all media by many a whole year before the book...you cannot lay that on Amaral, but you are free to bash

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4527 on: August 29, 2015, 11:36:57 PM »
No-one has noticed a problem re of one of Amaral's ideas Why would anyone put anything in a cupboard that doesn't belong there and then take it out again. What's the point. It achieves absolutely nothing.
Bumping this again, give us a clue Pegasus

Offline Benice

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4528 on: August 29, 2015, 11:42:39 PM »
Well, I disagree with your opinion as books TV online reports are all interchangeable these days...the fact remains the cadaver alerts were a massive turning point and under major discussion in all media by many a whole year before the book...you cannot lay that on Amaral, but you are free to bash

IMO criticism of Amaral's lack of understanding of the abililties of the dogs is deserved.   Of all people - as the Lead Investigator he should have scrupulously acquainted himself with the correct facts concerning such an important subject.   IMO either he didn't do that - or he cherry picked the facts which suited him and studiously ignored the facts which didn't.   Having read his book its my opinion that he did the latter.
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4529 on: August 29, 2015, 11:46:02 PM »
IMO criticism of Amaral's lack of understanding of the abililties of the dogs is deserved.   Of all people - as the Lead Investigator he should have scrupulously acquainted himself with the correct facts concerning such an important subject.   IMO either he didn't do that - or he cherry picked the facts which suited him and studiously ignored the facts which didn't.   Having read his book its my opinion that he did the latter.

It wasn't his job to do so, just as it wasn!t his job to interview the Mccanns or "meet them"

Just another stick to beat Amaral with