Author Topic: Amaral and the dogs  (Read 841672 times)

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Offline jassi

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5190 on: September 09, 2015, 08:17:49 PM »
I hope you were staying somewhere a bit nicer that the Ocean Club.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5191 on: September 09, 2015, 08:19:00 PM »
I was on a family holiday in Portugal at the time

Of course you were. @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*

and of course you checked all the regulations beforehand and obtained all the licences required. 8)--))
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 09:13:21 PM by stephen25000 »

Offline pegasus

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5192 on: September 09, 2015, 09:14:33 PM »
I was on a family holiday in Portugal at the time
Fascinating. Did you pick up and move the pheasants you shot? What did you carry them in? And did you place that in your rental car? What did you use to unlock the car?
 

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5193 on: September 09, 2015, 09:22:54 PM »
Fascinating. Did you pick up and move the pheasants you shot? What did you carry them in? And did you place that in your rental car? What did you use to unlock the car?

Absolutely not
I think someone had been watching me all week and took the pheasants
The police were not interested and blamed me

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5194 on: September 09, 2015, 09:30:19 PM »
I can sympathise with that.  But I think there was far more put on his shoulders than would be normal practice in an investigation where he would be working with another handler and reporting to senior management who knew what they were about using the dogs as a tool not as a conclusion.
He was used to turning up with his dogs ... doing the job with them ... reporting back ... and that was that.  On to the next job and next report.

I don't think there would have been all this "dogs don't lie" nonsense but for the false leaks to the press about forensics bolstered by the release of the videos on the internet.  That wasn't down to Martin Grime and I think he was probably quite dismayed by it.

The (I gather now late) blogger steel magnolia wrote a blog alleging that Grime complained that an English official (he didn't name!) had leaned on him to say, in his reports, that no evidential reliability could be placed on the dog-alerts.

I've never seen independent verification of the claim.

But it actually wouldn't surprise me in the least if that turned out to be true.

And if it was true, the English official would have been Harrison, who certainly turned in his back on Grime's worst excesses in handling his dog, and particularly (largely) disregarding the direction of Harrison.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5195 on: September 09, 2015, 09:33:14 PM »
Absolutely not
I think someone had been watching me all week and took the pheasants
The police were not interested and blamed me

Must have been Mr. Spotty, pheasant abductor. @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*

Offline pegasus

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5196 on: September 09, 2015, 09:37:56 PM »
The (I gather now late) blogger steel magnolia wrote a blog alleging that Grime complained that an English official (he didn't name!) had leaned on him to say, in his reports, that no evidential reliability could be placed on the dog-alerts.

I've never seen independent verification of the claim.

But it actually wouldn't surprise me in the least if that turned out to be true.

And if it was true, the English official would have been Harrison, who certainly turned in his back on Grime's worst excesses in handling his dog, and particularly (largely) disregarding the direction of Harrison.
IMO that official would not have been MH. And your ideas that MH "turned his back on  ...." and that MG "largely disregarded the direction of ...." are incorrect IMO.
If you watch the videos you will see these two experts working very efficiently together. 

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5197 on: September 09, 2015, 09:46:23 PM »
IMO that official would not have been MH. And your ideas that MH "turned his back on  ...." and that MG "largely disregarded the direction of ...." are incorrect IMO.
If you watch the videos you will see these two experts working very efficiently together.

I have posted this before, but I will do so again.

Mark Harrison's summary of all searches:

The timeline of these searches was as follows:
 
On 31-07-07 the PJ conducted canine searches with a search warrant at apartments in Praia da Luz that had been previously occupied by the McCanns and their friends.
 
On 01-08-07 the PJ and GNR assisted by a canine, conducted searches on the eastern beach and wasteland in Praia da Luz.
 
On 02-08-07 the PJ conducted a search warrant at a villa in Praia da Luz currently occupied by the McCann family.
 
Later the same day PJ officers conducted a screening procedure involving items removed from the McCann’s villa.
 
On 03-08-07 PJ and GNR officers were given instruction based on translated extracts from NPIA doctrine on search management and procedures. This focused on search procedures relating to buildings and vehicles.
 
On 04-08-07 and 05-08-07 a search warrant was executed at the villa and gardens belonging to the PJ suspect Robert Murat. This search involved both PJ and GNR personnel supported by civil defence, geophysical equipment operators and a canine handler.
 
On 06-08-07 ten vehicles were searched associated to the enquiry.
 
On 07-08-07 the western beach and remaining wasteland areas were searched using canine and GNR personnel.
 
On 08-08-07 the drains around the apartment block where Madeleine McCann disappeared from were subject to a visual inspection by PJ officers.


I don't think it coincidence that Grime acknowledges the input of Grime and his dogs in those searches he recommended, the places Madeleine either had been or (conceivably) might have been, the holiday apartments, areas in and around PdL and the Murats' place.

Both inspections at villa and gym, Harrison summaries as PJ exercises.

And while Harrison did recommend an inspection of vehicles, only 2 (of 3!) vehicles he recommended be inspected made the final line-up of 10.

The exception was a vehicle Murat hired that never made the line-up; while 8 vehicles Harrison never said anything about made it (including the Renault Scenic).

Harrison gives no clue who took part in that exercise.

And Harrison waited until after both inspections at villa and gym to give PJ officers translated instructions on how to conduct inspections in vehicles and buildings ...
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 09:51:59 PM by ferryman »

Offline Brietta

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5198 on: September 09, 2015, 09:54:57 PM »
The (I gather now late) blogger steel magnolia wrote a blog alleging that Grime complained that an English official (he didn't name!) had leaned on him to say, in his reports, that no evidential reliability could be placed on the dog-alerts.

I've never seen independent verification of the claim.

But it actually wouldn't surprise me in the least if that turned out to be true.

And if it was true, the English official would have been Harrison, who certainly turned in his back on Grime's worst excesses in handling his dog, and particularly (largely) disregarding the direction of Harrison.

In common with the many other unprecedented things which happened in Madeleine's case I think it was unheard of  for dogs and their handlers to achieve such prominence in an investigation.
Maybe a mention if they actually found human remains ... but I don't recall them achieving a mention even then.

The total misunderstanding of their role and over reliance on what he had been told their capabilities were led Mr Amaral down the wrong road to entirely the wrong conclusion.
What a waste of time that could have been better spent looking for Madeleine.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5199 on: September 09, 2015, 09:55:33 PM »
not by me

'.........Last week.....'

Words removed. *&*%£

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5200 on: September 09, 2015, 09:57:55 PM »
In common with the many other unprecedented things which happened in Madeleine's case I think it was unheard of  for dogs and their handlers to achieve such prominence in an investigation.
Maybe a mention if they actually found human remains ... but I don't recall them achieving a mention even then.

The total misunderstanding of their role and over reliance on what he had been told their capabilities were led Mr Amaral down the wrong road to entirely the wrong conclusion.
What a waste of time that could have been better spent looking for Madeleine.

Cliche after cliche.

Madeleine was looked for by many people.

She disappeared without a trace.

Amaral, supervised the investigation until he was removed after claiming, quite rightly, there had been  interference in the case.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 10:00:49 PM by stephen25000 »

Offline pegasus

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5201 on: September 09, 2015, 09:59:45 PM »
I have posted this before, but I will do so again.

Mark Harrison's summary of all searches:

The timeline of these searches was as follows:
 
On 31-07-07 the PJ conducted canine searches with a search warrant at apartments in Praia da Luz that had been previously occupied by the McCanns and their friends.
 
On 01-08-07 the PJ and GNR assisted by a canine, conducted searches on the eastern beach and wasteland in Praia da Luz.
 
On 02-08-07 the PJ conducted a search warrant at a villa in Praia da Luz currently occupied by the McCann family.
 
Later the same day PJ officers conducted a screening procedure involving items removed from the McCann’s villa.
 
On 03-08-07 PJ and GNR officers were given instruction based on translated extracts from NPIA doctrine on search management and procedures. This focused on search procedures relating to buildings and vehicles.
 
On 04-08-07 and 05-08-07 a search warrant was executed at the villa and gardens belonging to the PJ suspect Robert Murat. This search involved both PJ and GNR personnel supported by civil defence, geophysical equipment operators and a canine handler.
 
On 06-08-07 ten vehicles were searched associated to the enquiry.
 
On 07-08-07 the western beach and remaining wasteland areas were searched using canine and GNR personnel.
 
On 08-08-07 the drains around the apartment block where Madeleine McCann disappeared from were subject to a visual inspection by PJ officers.


I don't think it coincidence that Grime acknowledges the input of Grime and his dogs in those searches he recommended, the places Madeleine either had been or (conceivably) might have been, the holiday apartments, areas in and around PdL and the Murats' place.

Both inspections at villa and gym, Harrison summaries as PJ exercises.

And while Harrison did recommend an inspection of vehicles, only 2 (of 3!) vehicles he recommended be inspected made the final line-up of 10.

The exception was a vehicle Murat hired that never made the line-up; while 8 vehicles Harrison never said anything about made it (including the Renault Scenic).

Harrison gives no clue who took part in that exercise.
In the videos I see no sign of MH turning his back on MG, nor of MG disregarding the directions of MH.

MH's recommendation "all vehicles RM has had access to" accounts for all but 2 of the vehicles inspected by Eddie.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5202 on: September 09, 2015, 10:03:33 PM »
'.........Last week.....'

Words removed. *&*%£

The mystery is who removed the words

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5203 on: September 09, 2015, 10:06:57 PM »
In the videos I see no sign of MH turning his back on MG, nor of MG disregarding the directions of MH.

MH's recommendation "all vehicles RM has had access to" accounts for all but 2 of the vehicles inspected by Eddie.

Robert Murat had access to 3 vehicles.

Two were in the line-up

One wasn't.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5204 on: September 09, 2015, 10:09:29 PM »
The mystery is who removed the words

Not in the slightest.

I know who did. 8((()*/