Author Topic: Amaral and the dogs  (Read 841566 times)

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stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5235 on: September 10, 2015, 08:30:20 AM »

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5236 on: September 10, 2015, 08:32:09 AM »

 @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*

You mean my experience with the remnant scent of pheasants...I think most people realise that was a wind up...

Offline G-Unit

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5237 on: September 10, 2015, 08:35:02 AM »
re: your last sentence: isn't that what the "Dogs Don't Lie" brigade have been doing for the last 8 years?

No idea Alfred, you're much more interested in what other people in other places think than I am.
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stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5238 on: September 10, 2015, 08:37:55 AM »
You mean my experience with the remnant scent of pheasants...I think most people realise that was a wind up...

Most people realize it for exactly what it was. 8)--))

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5239 on: September 10, 2015, 08:38:53 AM »
Most people realize it for exactly what it was. 8)--))

they would have to be stupid not too

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5240 on: September 10, 2015, 08:44:09 AM »
they would have to be stupid not too

Actually most people know pure BS when they see it. 8)-)))

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5241 on: September 10, 2015, 08:57:32 AM »
Actually most people know pure BS when they see it. 8)-)))

apart from you it seems...

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5242 on: September 10, 2015, 09:01:34 AM »
apart from you it seems...

In your dreams. 8(*(

Offline Lace

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5243 on: September 10, 2015, 09:14:02 AM »
Perhaps you should accept that Grime was the expert in this. He knew how to use his dogs and he knew what they did and did not alert to - he trained them and tested them constantly. Fantasising about what Eddie was thinking and about what you think he was alerting to is also arrogant in my opinion.

I am not being arrogant,  just quoting what other experts have said about cadaver dogs whilst studying them.   Of course Eddie wouldn't come into this category would he,  he being a very special cadaver dog.

I don't call the alerts bollocks,   I just give the evidence that these very experienced people have found about cadaver dogs.   I would say dismissing these people and what they have written is arrogance.

Grime did train Eddie,  he may well test his dogs regularly,  but Eddie was trained to find blood,  he was trained on pig carcasses.    Grime wouldn't be able to say that Eddie did NOT alert to blood that had been on an article and taken away because he wouldn't know what Eddie was alerting to.    He covered everything when he said without a body the alerts more or less mean nothing.


stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5244 on: September 10, 2015, 09:19:13 AM »
I am not being arrogant,  just quoting what other experts have said about cadaver dogs whilst studying them.   Of course Eddie wouldn't come into this category would he,  he being a very special cadaver dog.

I don't call the alerts bollocks,   I just give the evidence that these very experienced people have found about cadaver dogs.   I would say dismissing these people and what they have written is arrogance.

Grime did train Eddie,  he may well test his dogs regularly,  but Eddie was trained to find blood,  he was trained on pig carcasses.    Grime wouldn't be able to say that Eddie did NOT alert to blood that had been on an article and taken away because he wouldn't know what Eddie was alerting to.    He covered everything when he said without a body the alerts more or less mean nothing.

Please remind me of what traces of pig residue was found.

Offline Lace

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5245 on: September 10, 2015, 09:21:59 AM »
Please remind me of what traces of pig residue was found.

Please stop repeating these silly questions.

Was the soil of the garden tested?

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5246 on: September 10, 2015, 09:35:00 AM »
Please stop repeating these silly questions.

Was the soil of the garden tested?

It is not a silly question.

You are claiming that some of the alerts could be due to pigs.

and you can whine on until the end of time, but there were no traces of pig residue in the samples collected.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5247 on: September 10, 2015, 09:44:27 AM »
I am not being arrogant,  just quoting what other experts have said about cadaver dogs whilst studying them.   Of course Eddie wouldn't come into this category would he,  he being a very special cadaver dog.

I don't call the alerts bollocks,   I just give the evidence that these very experienced people have found about cadaver dogs.   I would say dismissing these people and what they have written is arrogance.

Grime did train Eddie,  he may well test his dogs regularly,  but Eddie was trained to find blood,  he was trained on pig carcasses.    Grime wouldn't be able to say that Eddie did NOT alert to blood that had been on an article and taken away because he wouldn't know what Eddie was alerting to.    He covered everything when he said without a body the alerts more or less mean nothing.

You have read about other dogs and other experts, but two dogs and one expert were involved in this case.The handler had trained and used Eddie for years, so in my opinion he is the only expert who can comment on the dog's capabilities. Eddie alerted in two ways. When he barked with his head in the air he was alerting to a scent he had been trained to find, but the source of the scent wasn't there. This is what he did in the bedroom. When he barked at a certain spot, the source of the scent was still there. That's what he did behind the sofa, as Keela confirmed.

Grimes opinion was that Eddie alerted to cadaver scent contamination in the bedroom. Not blood, toenails, dead pigs or fertilizer, he alerted to the smell of a dead human being. I will take the word of the man who had the dog since he was a puppy, who trained him and used him for eight years over any other opinions relating to other dogs and other circumstances.

The dogs don't 'think' by the way, their response is a Pavlovian response, a simple cause and effect operation. They smell something, they alert. After eight years of deployment Eddie wouldn't have been used if he was unreliable. He wouldn't have still been working if he alerted to all sorts of random substances.
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Offline Lace

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5248 on: September 10, 2015, 10:24:53 AM »
You have read about other dogs and other experts, but two dogs and one expert were involved in this case.The handler had trained and used Eddie for years, so in my opinion he is the only expert who can comment on the dog's capabilities. Eddie alerted in two ways. When he barked with his head in the air he was alerting to a scent he had been trained to find, but the source of the scent wasn't there. This is what he did in the bedroom. When he barked at a certain spot, the source of the scent was still there. That's what he did behind the sofa, as Keela confirmed.

Grimes opinion was that Eddie alerted to cadaver scent contamination in the bedroom. Not blood, toenails, dead pigs or fertilizer, he alerted to the smell of a dead human being. I will take the word of the man who had the dog since he was a puppy, who trained him and used him for eight years over any other opinions relating to other dogs and other circumstances.

The dogs don't 'think' by the way, their response is a Pavlovian response, a simple cause and effect operation. They smell something, they alert. After eight years of deployment Eddie wouldn't have been used if he was unreliable. He wouldn't have still been working if he alerted to all sorts of random substances.

Grimes OPINION was that Eddie alerted to cadaver scent contamination in the bedroom,   well that's just his opinion isn't it,   nothing factual.

Offline Lace

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5249 on: September 10, 2015, 10:27:05 AM »
It is not a silly question.

You are claiming that some of the alerts could be due to pigs.

and you can whine on until the end of time, but there were no traces of pig residue in the samples collected.

Pig blood Stephen which is one of things that Eddie would have been trained to alert to as he was trained with dead pig.

Who is whining?    I am debating.     No pig residue was in any samples collected,  but they didn't get a sample of the soil in the garden did they?