Amaral and the dogs

[ferryman]

Eddie trained with real pure human cadaver scent.

The enhanced training of the dog has also involved the use of collection of 'cadaver scent'
odor from human corpses using remote technical equipment which does not
contact the subject. This method is comparable to the simulation of cross
contamination. It does however differ in that the remote scent samples
recovery does not involve subject matter and therefore is a 'pure' scent
sample. The dog has since initial training gained considerable experience in
successfully operationally locating human remains and evidential forensic
material. (MG)

One thing at a time.

Where, outside Eddie and Grime, has the "enhanced" category of victim recovery dog ever existed?

[Lace]

Here's a little snip for you.

I already know that.

No rotten logs were in the apartment.

No pig residue was detected.

Next................

Doh,  it doesn't have to be a log,   decaying vegetation Stephen,  like what you would find in the garden?

No pig residue was detected because they didn't test the soil in the garden.

Now do you see why Cadaver dogs can't be compared to other dogs?

[stephen25000]

Doh,  it doesn't have to be a log,   decaying vegetation Stephen,  like what you would find in the garden?

No pig residue was detected because they didn't test the soil in the garden.

Now do you see why Cadaver dogs can't be compared to other dogs?

I was being sardonic.

You simply do not get it.

You're just clutching at straws.

[Lace]

I was being sardonic.

You simply do not get it.

You're just clutching at straws.

I think it's you who doesn't get it.

[stephen25000]

I think it's you who doesn't get it.

No, I get exactly what you're doing.

Clutching at straws, again and again and again.................................

[G-Unit]

No one knows what makes up the scent of cadaver that the dogs smell,  it's not something a trainer can mix up in a bowl.

So when a cadaver dog alerts,   it could be a number of things,  they could even alert to decaying vegetation.

Where as a dog trained to alert to drugs or whatever can be given that scent as the trainer would know what to give the dog.

In the Uk the dogs are trained using decaying piglets because the scent is very similar. In parts of the US dogs are trained using human remains. Eddie was trained using both. It's not just the handler who cannot replicate the smell; scientists can't. Just because it can't be replicated doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Trained dogs know the scent they are searching for and alert when they find it. Speculating about other things they may alert to is useless. They alert to the scent they have been trained to find. They do this often enough for law enforcement people to have confidence in them. That's why they use them.

[stephen25000]

In the Uk the dogs are trained using decaying piglets because the scent is very similar. In parts of the US dogs are trained using human remains. Eddie was trained using both. It's not just the handler who cannot replicate the smell; scientists can't. Just because it can't be replicated doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Trained dogs know the scent they are searching for and alert when they find it. Speculating about other things they may alert to is useless. They alert to the scent they have been trained to find. They do this often enough for law enforcement people to have confidence in them. That's why they use them.

Precisely G-Unit. 

[G-Unit]

I don't need to know you - I judge you by your posts alone and IMO it is hypocritical to lament the fact that Grime and his dogs have been criticised here, whilst at the same time repeatedly and often criticising the McCanns.   You may think you are entitled to, but who put Grime and the dogs above criticism in your view?

You are missing my point again. If people use an objective factual basis for criticism I don't have a problem with that. Most of the criticism of Grime and the dogs is opinion-based. Use objective facts for criticism, not your own opinions and I will debate using objective facts. Opinion is subjective so it's not relevant.

[ferryman]

You are missing my point again. If people use an objective factual basis for criticism I don't have a problem with that. Most of the criticism of Grime and the dogs is opinion-based. Use objective facts for criticism, not your own opinions and I will debate using objective facts. Opinion is subjective so it's not relevant.

t

Critique of Grime and his dog is entirely factually based.

It is a fact that there is no reference to the "enhanced" category of victim recovery dog outside Grime and his dog.

It is a fact that clothing not alerted to in the villa was, apparently, alerted to in the gym.

It is a fact that Grime disregarded principles of cross-contamination in his dogs' inspection of clothing.

It is a fact that Harrison described both inspections of villa and in the gym as "PJ exercises"

It is a fact that there is no mention, in the files, of the inspection in the gym until just before it is about to happen.

The inspection at the villa does, at least, get a prior mention well in advance of the inspection.  The inspection in the gym does not, until (as I say) it is about to happen.

It is a fact that, just as there was an innocent scent in the Renault Scenic, there might easily have been innocent scents in any of the other 9 cars, which might have risked confusion for the dog.

It is a fact only one car in the line-up of 10 had find Madeleine stickers plastered all over the back window, which ties in with the study Alfred found us of the influence of bias in distorting the relationship between handler and dog.

It is a fact that Grime himself, in his profile, states that handler-influence can be responsible for a dog alerting falsely.

Nothing above is opinion

It is all fact!

[Lace]

In the Uk the dogs are trained using decaying piglets because the scent is very similar. In parts of the US dogs are trained using human remains. Eddie was trained using both. It's not just the handler who cannot replicate the smell; scientists can't. Just because it can't be replicated doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Trained dogs know the scent they are searching for and alert when they find it. Speculating about other things they may alert to is useless. They alert to the scent they have been trained to find. They do this often enough for law enforcement people to have confidence in them. That's why they use them.

Oh for god sake,  for the last time,  the dogs can alert to other things too such as,  rotting vegetation, saliva, pig blood,

Yes the police have confidence in them, but when no body is found,  they cannot hand on heart say that the dog alerted to cadaver scent can they?

If there is a body then fine,   though any dog would find a dead body.

[Lace]

I am not criticising Grime or Eddie,   I am just saying that Eddie could have alerted to something else other than cadaver scent,  as it has been said by all scientists that these dog can have false alerts.

Grime covered himself for this by saying without any evidence [such as a body]   then the alerts are meaningless.

[Lace]

You are missing my point again. If people use an objective factual basis for criticism I don't have a problem with that. Most of the criticism of Grime and the dogs is opinion-based. Use objective facts for criticism, not your own opinions and I will debate using objective facts. Opinion is subjective so it's not relevant.

I have shown you facts,  you ignore them.

These studies have been done in order to help the trainers of these dogs,  all trainers Grime included.   I am sorry but I don't know how you can say that Eddie would behave no different from all these other dogs.

The fact remains that Eddie did give a false alert in Jersey.

[Lace]

No, I get exactly what you're doing.

Clutching at straws, again and again and again.................................

So how am I clutching at straws?

I have given you written evidence from experienced people in the field of cadaver dogs.   They say they can alert to rotten vegetation,  saliva and pig,  as all of those have certain scents in relation to the odour of cadaver scent.

Tell me how this is wrong and Eddie is separate from this,  and how he is separate from this.

[stephen25000]

So how am I clutching at straws?

I have given you written evidence from experienced people in the field of cadaver dogs.   They say they can alert to rotten vegetation,  saliva and pig,  as all of those have certain scents in relation to the odour of cadaver scent.

Tell me how this is wrong and Eddie is separate from this,  and how he is separate from this.

Supporters of the mccanns are very fond of 'evidence'.

Now for the last time, what evidence was collected and showed any other organic residues, other than human in origin ?

[Brietta]

Supporters of the mccanns are very fond of 'evidence'.

Now for the last time, what evidence was collected and showed any other organic residues, other than human in origin ?

Even for you that is a very strange post to make. Evidence is the basis of any justice system ... with the obvious exception of kangaroo courts on the internet.

Quite simply put ... there was no meaningful evidence uncovered by the dogs.