Author Topic: Amaral and the dogs  (Read 841498 times)

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ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5595 on: September 13, 2015, 07:57:34 PM »
Now who said this I wonder ?


'The dogs do not get confused. They transmit a behavioural response inspired by the recognition of the odour for which they were trained.'


 &%+((£

Martin Grime.

Clearly not referring to Eddie's shall I/Shan't I uncertainty with cuddle-cat.

Or the clothing he could find no trace of a scent of in the villa, but could, apparently, detect in the gym

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5596 on: September 13, 2015, 08:08:31 PM »
The part I underline is perplexing, I do agree.

I can't think Harrison didn't know that we don't  send (and never have sent) dogs to America to be trained on human remains.

There are at least two (separate) FOI answers that confirm Eddie was no exception to the general rule.

It is clear from Harrison's reports that he simply quit trying to sustain an untruth he realised was unsustainable.

On your other point, yes, Harrison seems to have been (genuinely) impressed with the efforts of the GNR dog-handlers to try to find Madeleine, and I am very happy to respect Harrison's professional judgement on that one.

An EVRD dog received additional training on human cadavers which were buried on land and submerged underwater. This took place in America and facilitated by the FBI at the University of Tennessee.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

He (Eddie) has additionally trained exclusively using human remains in the U.S.A. in association with the F.B.I. The enhanced training of the dog has also involved the use of collection of 'cadaver scent' odor from human corpses using remote technical equipment which does not contact the subject.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

The dogs' CV is impressive. Besides collaborating in hundreds of investigations, they passed the practical tests brilliantly at the FBI's "Body Farm," the only place in the world where human cadavers are used to simulate homicide scenarios and concealment of bodies.

http://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.com/2009/06/chapter-16.html
« Last Edit: September 13, 2015, 08:10:38 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5597 on: September 13, 2015, 08:10:07 PM »
From Harrison's report, this is where he makes reference to the places Madeleine neither lived in nor went near:

In complying with these terms [Harrison's terms of reference] I undertook a series of briefings and site visits. These were with GNR and PJ personnel who had been involved in the previous searches conducted the week following Madeleine McCann’s disappearance in Praia da Luz.
 
The output of this process of reconnaissance and review was a written document entitled “Madeleine McCann Search Decision Support Document” (see appendix 2) and submitted to the PJ with copies supplied to Leicestershire Police and NPIA on 23-07-07.

It recommended considering re searching:
 
- All accommodation occupied by the McCann family and their friends as well as any hired vehicles.
- The villa and garden occupied by Robert Murat and any vehicles he had access to.
- Areas of wasteland adjacent to Murat’s and the McCann’s apartment.
- Areas of the beach in Praia da Luz.
- A portion of the coastline east of Praia da Luz.
 
These recommendations were based on the fact that these areas had not been previously searched with the specific intent to locate Madeleine McCann’s concealed and deceased body and that the areas recommended afforded likely and obvious places to consider for concealment in such an investigation.


Do you get the impression Harrison words that as if they are his recommendations?

I don't.

And notice a conspicuous absence: no reference to the gym.

How did that come about?

The only explanation I am aware of is the one in Amaral's book.

Are you saying that he didn't write and submit the Report 'Madeleine McCann Search Decision Support Document'?
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5598 on: September 13, 2015, 08:13:20 PM »
Now who said this I wonder ?


'The dogs do not get confused. They transmit a behavioural response inspired by the recognition of the odour for which they were trained.'


 &%+((£

it seems they do sometimes but not always...often not alerting to things they later alert to

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5599 on: September 13, 2015, 08:16:39 PM »
An EVRD dog received additional training on human cadavers which were buried on land and submerged underwater. This took place in America and facilitated by the FBI at the University of Tennessee.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

He (Eddie) has additionally trained exclusively using human remains in the U.S.A. in association with the F.B.I. The enhanced training of the dog has also involved the use of collection of 'cadaver scent' odor from human corpses using remote technical equipment which does not contact the subject.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

The dogs' CV is impressive. Besides collaborating in hundreds of investigations, they passed the practical tests brilliantly at the FBI's "Body Farm," the only place in the world where human cadavers are used to simulate homicide scenarios and concealment of bodies.

http://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.com/2009/06/chapter-16.html

SYP confirmed in an FOI answer that Eddie's training was in conformance with standard ACPO guidelines, then it gave a link to the ACPO dog training manual which says nothing about sending dogs to America to be trained on human remains.

And they confirmed in a separate answer (I have) that no report confirming this apparent training in America was received by SYP.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5600 on: September 13, 2015, 08:21:12 PM »
An EVRD dog received additional training on human cadavers which were buried on land and submerged underwater. This took place in America and facilitated by the FBI at the University of Tennessee.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

He (Eddie) has additionally trained exclusively using human remains in the U.S.A. in association with the F.B.I. The enhanced training of the dog has also involved the use of collection of 'cadaver scent' odor from human corpses using remote technical equipment which does not contact the subject.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

The dogs' CV is impressive. Besides collaborating in hundreds of investigations, they passed the practical tests brilliantly at the FBI's "Body Farm," the only place in the world where human cadavers are used to simulate homicide scenarios and concealment of bodies.

http://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.com/2009/06/chapter-16.html

Why are you quoting from Amaral's book?

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5601 on: September 13, 2015, 08:23:35 PM »
Are you saying that he didn't write and submit the Report 'Madeleine McCann Search Decision Support Document'?

Harrison is.

It recommended .... (Harrison's words)

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5602 on: September 13, 2015, 08:29:29 PM »
Martin Grime.

Clearly not referring to Eddie's shall I/Shan't I uncertainty with cuddle-cat.

Or the clothing he could find no trace of a scent of in the villa, but could, apparently, detect in the gym

Have you seen the unedited videos ?

The dogs are trained to react and that is what they did.




Offline G-Unit

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5603 on: September 13, 2015, 08:38:53 PM »
SYP confirmed in an FOI answer that Eddie's training was in conformance with standard ACPO guidelines, then it gave a link to the ACPO dog training manual which says nothing about sending dogs to America to be trained on human remains.

And they confirmed in a separate answer (I have) that no report confirming this apparent training in America was received by SYP.

No report was received by SYP. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, it means no report was received.
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ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5604 on: September 13, 2015, 08:40:36 PM »
No report was received by SYP. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, it means no report was received.

The ACPO dog training manual is no longer on line because ACPO no longer exists.

But it said nothing about sending dogs to America to be trained on human remains.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5605 on: September 13, 2015, 08:42:52 PM »
Have you seen the unedited videos ?

The dogs are trained to react and that is what they did.

according to the PJ they didnt

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5606 on: September 13, 2015, 08:50:13 PM »
Here is how Harrison worded his recommendations:

Re Visiting Previously Searched Areas.

In considering the two scenarios that Madeleine McCann has been murdered and her body disposed of by a person on foot or in a vehicle, I have reflected on the areas within zone 1 that have been previously searched or subject to forensic examination.

Mark Warner Creche at Praia Da Luz.

This is the location of the last confirmed sighting by a person independent of family members of Madeleine McCann. Although this location was within the original search area it may well benefit from a further search using enhanced detecting methods for human remains. This will depend on the size of any outside grounds and concealed areas inside the building.

McCann's Apartment.

The apartment in which the McCann's had stayed may present further
opportunities to search. The use of a specialist EVRD (Enhanced Victim
Recovery Dog) and CSI dog (human blood detecting dog) could potentially indicate on whether Madeline's blood is in the property or the scent of a dead body is present. In relation to the dead body scent if such a scent is indicated by the EVRD and no body is located it may suggest that a body has been in the property but removed. This search process could be repeated in all the apartments that were occupied by the friends holidaying with the McCann's.
Murat's House and Garden.

The property has been forensically examined to recover any surface trace evidence however the house and gardens may benefit from a fully invasive specialist search to preclude the presence of Madeleine McCann.
A method previously employed on similar cases has been to use the below assets.
Deploy the EVRD to search the house and garden to ensure Madeleine McCann's remains are not present. The dog may also indicate if a body has been stored in the recent past and then moved off the property, though this is not evidential merely intelligence.
Deploy the CSI dog to search the house to locate any human blood.
This will act in support of the forensic examination already completed.
An inhibiting factor will be on areas where Luminol has been used.


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Deploy geophysical instruments in the house and garden to detect any burial of a body or concealment in voids.

These specialists should be supported by physical search teams exploring and accessing all areas where concealment of a child's body could be made typically 0.5m.

Murat's Vehicles.

All vehicles Murat has had access to have been forensically examined to recover any surface trace evidence however they may all benefit from a full search by the EVRD and CSI dogs. They may be able to detect whether a dead body has been transported in one of the vehicles for intelligence purposes or detect human blood deposits that can be recovered and
examined in a laboratory for Madeleine McCann's blood.

Open Area to East of Praia Da Luz.

This open area between the village urban limits and the Boavista golf club to the east and includes a plateau on which sits a trig point and mobile phone mast.
This area has been previously searched by officers and dogs walking through the area to check for Madeleine McCann's visible remains. However considering the new scenario of Homicide and concealed deposition this area affords many opportunities to dispose of a body. Within this area there are old empty properties, wells, thick vegetation, pockets of soft sand and natural fissures in the cliffs. Whilst there is no intelligence she is buried or concealed in this land it would be a natural place an offender may choose dose to the Village using the least effort principle. A proportionate response may therefore be considered to conduct a search of this area using a team of Victim Recovery Dogs (VRD) that are specifically trained to located concealed human remains.
Prior to undertaking this task it would be beneficial to consult with a Forensic Anthropologist with knowledge of this region of Portugal to give opinion as to the likely state of any remains to be found. Further research could also be conducted with regards to the natural scavenging predators in the area.

An inhibiting factor is that since the disappearance of the child an old empty house adjacent to the Trig Point on the Rocha Negra has been demolished and all rubble removed, If she was concealed within this property the search would be unlikely to detect her now.

Praia Da Luz Beach and Shoreline.

The beach and shoreline are bounded by high cliffs and shallow waters. The beach has fine granular sand and provides easy digging. However the beach is extensively used by tourists and locals and af?rds minimal areas of cover from view for concealment. It may be considered appropriate to use the VRD dog team supported by geophysical GPR to sweep the beach. This would be


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a considerable time and cost undertaking and should be weighed in the absence of specific intelligence.

Search Duration.

If all the described assets were deployed it would be likely all assets would complete their searches within one week.




You are left in no doubt that these are Harrison's recommendations ....

Offline misty

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5607 on: September 13, 2015, 08:50:57 PM »
No report was received by SYP. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, it means no report was received.

Bit like claiming to have a science degree but not having the certificate to back it up.


Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5608 on: September 13, 2015, 09:20:09 PM »
Have you seen the unedited videos ?

The dogs are trained to react and that is what they did.

Which unedited videos are those?


Offline G-Unit

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5609 on: September 13, 2015, 09:22:29 PM »
Harrison is.

It recommended .... (Harrison's words)

You are wrong;

The terms of assistance we agreed to provide were directed by the PJ Regional Director, Guilhermino ENCARNACO after consultation with DI Neil HOLDEN of the Leicestershire Police and myself, the details of which are on page two of the document I authored, titled “Decision Support Document in the Search for Madeleine McCann” dated 23.07.2007 and presented as evidence MH4.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON-RIGATORY.htm
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