Amaral and the dogs

[ferryman]

BACK UP YOUR CLAIM OR WITHDRAW IT.

However, first read the court judgement.

You back up yours.

Where, in the files (apart from Almeida) is there an assertion of "proven" cadaver scent.

Where does Grime say anything about "proven" cadaver scent?

[stephen25000]

You back up yours.

Where, in the files (apart from Almeida) is there an assertion of "proven" cadaver scent.

Where does Grime say anything about "proven" cadaver scent?

I don't need to ferryman.

What counts in law, is the court judgement.

NOTHING ELSE.

[ferryman]

I don't need to ferryman.

What counts in law, is the court judgement.

NOTHING ELSE.

No it's not.

[Eleanor]

Okay.  That's enough.  All future posts in this vein will be deleted.

[Anna]

Any help?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5927.msg218559#msg218559

[Anna]

Okay.  That's enough.  All future posts in this vein will be deleted.

Sorry, Eleanor. You were quicker than me and I missed your post. Please delete my post if you wish.

[Eleanor]

Sorry, Eleanor. You were quicker than me and I missed your post. Please delete my post if you wish.

No, I think that rounds it off more than adequately, Anna.

[Benice]

Page 08
(snipped)

6. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in the apartment 5A, Ocean Club [alínea AR) of the undisputed facts].

7. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in a vehicle rented by the claimants after the disappearance of MMC [alínea AS) of the undisputed facts].

 http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/v01.htm

I presume they are referring to the 2 occasions when both dogs alerted in the same place and swabs were obtained  -  (the key fob in the car and behind the settee in 5a)

Didn't they know that like Keela -  Eddie would also alert to blood?   IIRC on both occasions it was concluded that it was blood that both dogs had alerted to. 

Why didn't they claim that Eddie had alerted to 'cadaver' in all the other places where he barked as 'indisputed facts'?

IMO they appear to have interpreted the alerts which they do mention -  as being alerts by Eddie to a dead body - which were then confirmed by Keela's alert to blood at the same place.      As we know because Eddie also alerted to blood - that interpretation (if that is what it was) cannot be claimed as a fact.

[stephen25000]

I presume they are referring to the 2 occasions when both dogs alerted in the same place and swabs were obtained  -  (the key fob in the car and behind the settee in 5a)

Didn't they know that like Keela -  Eddie would also alert to blood?   IIRC on both occasions it was concluded that it was blood that both dogs had alerted to. 

Why didn't they claim that Eddie had alerted to 'cadaver' in all the other places where he barked as 'indisputed facts'?

IMO they appear to have interpreted the alerts which they do mention -  as being alerts by Eddie to a dead body - which were then confirmed by Keela's alert to blood at the same place.      As we know because Eddie also alerted to blood - that interpretation (if that is what it was) cannot be claimed as a fact.

I am sorry Benice, but your opinion is not relevant.

Have you read through the entirety of the court judgement from Portugal ?

[Carana]

Did you manage to figure it out? Do share if you have, if not, perhaps Carana can.

There's a thread on the DNA "misunderstanding" somewhere, which I can't find for the moment. In the meantime...

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5498.100
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2123.50
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2123.25

[Mr Gray]

I am sorry Benice, but your opinion is not relevant.

Have you read through the entirety of the court judgement from Portugal ?

the entire judgement is not available...what you are quoting is out of context and does not mean what you think...you have been duped...back later

[stephen25000]

the entire judgement is not available...what you are quoting is out of context and does not mean what you think...you have been duped...back later

Incorrect.

Read all the judgement.

[Carana]

As a reminder.........

6. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in the apartment 5A, Ocean Club [alínea AR) of the undisputed facts].

7. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in a vehicle rented by the claimants after the disappearance of MMC [alínea AS) of the undisputed facts].

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/v01.htm


UNDISPUTED FACTS.

I think I see what the issue is...

"Undisputed facts" in the judgement refers to untested statements of fact that can be found in the police files in some form or other. The judge's job was not to judge what the dogs were actually alerting to (the remit of a criminal court if the McCanns had been charged), but to ascertain the degree to which Amaral had sourced his material from the files.

[stephen25000]

I think I see what the issue is...

"Undisputed facts" in the judgement refers to untested statements of fact that can be found in the police files in some form or other. The judge's job was not to judge what the dogs were actually alerting to (the remit of a criminal court if the McCanns had been charged), but to ascertain the degree to which Amaral had sourced his material from the files.

Read page 8 of the judgement.

[Carana]

@ Stephen

if I had given a statement to the police that you microwaved puppies for breakfast and "Expert A" wrote a book drawing on that statement, the judge would still have listed that as an "undisputed fact" for the purposes of the civil trial.

It doesn't mean that you do actually engage in such practices, just that an untested statement in the police files to that effect does in fact exist.