Author Topic: Amaral and the dogs  (Read 841495 times)

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Offline Benice

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5925 on: September 18, 2015, 09:59:14 AM »

Can you please explain what is meant by the phrase 'UNDISPUTED FACTS' ?

P.S. I'm not shouting.

Sorry Stephen - No can do.   Taxi is on its way and I'm off on my hols for the next 10 days.  Carana has already explained it all to you - maybe she might have another go at it.

Bye for now.
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5926 on: September 18, 2015, 10:00:56 AM »
Sorry Stephen - No can do.   Taxi is on its way and I'm off on my hols for the next 10 days.  Carana has already explained it all to you - maybe she might have another go at it.

Bye for now.

Have a wonderful time, Benice.

Look forward to seeing you when you get back ....

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5927 on: September 18, 2015, 10:03:07 AM »

Can you please explain what is meant by the phrase 'UNDISPUTED FACTS' ?

P.S. I'm not shouting.
Posters already have done
Residual scent cannot be proved...fact
What you are proving is how poorly you understand the facts in the case

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5928 on: September 18, 2015, 10:03:26 AM »
Sorry Stephen - No can do.   Taxi is on its way and I'm off on my hols for the next 10 days.  Carana has already explained it all to you - maybe she might have another go at it.

Bye for now.

It doesn't need explaining.

Anyway, have a good holiday.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5929 on: September 18, 2015, 10:05:54 AM »
Posters already have done
Residual scent cannot be proved...fact
What you are proving is how poorly you understand the facts in the case

You still don't get it.

Read the judgement.

If you don't like it, take it up with the Portuguese judicial system.

Offline Brietta

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5930 on: September 18, 2015, 10:07:18 AM »
8)><( *&*%£

How do pooches with a good memory when trained and worked as cadaver dogs do  remembering remnant scent of saliva, clipped toenails, and bad breath? Sheesh, I expect the whole population of any country would not want cadaver dogs entering their homes....! quick, hide the pork chops, empty the bins, the bacons in there, and the smelly old socks!! Hoover up the nails (though I'm sure some here will argue Eddie could have smelt through a Henry Hoover bag's contents). My list is growing longer, I've just read cadaver dogs alert to freshly mown lawns or some insanity like that, not to mention the other day two kids were fighting and one pulled the others hair out... I am waiting for the dust mites to hit the stage any time soon.Carry on though. It's very entertaining as well as being so bloody pathetic it's unreal.

What is it you fail to understand about scientific studies which have identified that new mown grass emits the same chemical as that given off by a fresh cadaver?
http://nextinform.com/the-summery-whiff-of-freshly-cut-grass-is-also-the-smell-of-death-same-chemical-is-given-off-by-fresh-cadavers-study-reveals/

It is not an off the cuff opinion formulated by self appointed 'experts' on internet fora in conjunction with their own prejudice and that of others. 

It is the result of scientific research undertaken to understand and ascertain exactly what the cadaver dog can smell at various stages of decomposition and as a result how best to improve the training of cadaver dogs.
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/national/13651311.Decomposing_bodies_have_cut_grass_accent/

I think the problem some people may have with the continuing scientific research leading to better understanding is that it upsets their singular personal view of an event encapsulated in one small moment in time.

One which they were told at the time had no evidential value ... the exact reasons for which have become clearer as a result of various scientific studies.

The latest of which are categorical in that ...
  • dogs sometimes ignore what they are capable of smelling for what they remember
  • yaaawn ... dogs are capable of succumbing to outside influences
  • new mown grass gives off the same chemicals that a fresh cadaver emits


If you have a problem with the results of the research ... perhaps you will be able to come up with similar relevant studies to substantiate your point of view and bring the information to the forum.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5931 on: September 18, 2015, 10:09:29 AM »
You still don't get it.

Read the judgement.

If you don't like it, take it up with the Portuguese judicial system.

I get it
Residual scent cannot be proved.... An absolute fact

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5932 on: September 18, 2015, 10:11:38 AM »
I get it
Residual scent cannot be proved.... An absolute fact


This 'conversation' is in relation at the moment to the court judgement.

and it is black and white.

« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 11:03:13 AM by Eleanor »

Offline Brietta

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5933 on: September 18, 2015, 10:35:26 AM »
I get it
Residual scent cannot be proved.... An absolute fact

It could only be proved if it were possible to use equipment capable of collecting and allowing analysis of the sample gases.

Decomp dogs are tools which cannot be calibrated because we simply do not know what they are telling us unless their alert leads to the discovery of whole or partial remains.
Without firm corroboration using a tool which is calibrated and capable of giving measurable consistent readings allowing an interpretation of the gases present ... the dog alerts mean nothing.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5934 on: September 18, 2015, 10:43:37 AM »
It could only be proved if it were possible to use equipment capable of collecting and allowing analysis of the sample gases.

Decomp dogs are tools which cannot be calibrated because we simply do not know what they are telling us unless their alert leads to the discovery of whole or partial remains.
Without firm corroboration using a tool which is calibrated and capable of giving measurable consistent readings allowing an interpretation of the gases present ... the dog alerts mean nothing.

With the possible exception they are alerting to what they have been trained to alert to.
From the article you linked:
"Dogs are better at the job than any "electronic nose" would be, Dr Williams pointed out".
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5935 on: September 18, 2015, 10:49:10 AM »
So you don't agree with stephen

That has b****r all to do with what was said in the judgement which is the topic of this conversation; less or more.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5936 on: September 18, 2015, 10:50:33 AM »
That has b****r all to do with what was said in the judgement which is the topic of this conversation; less or more.

It does
Stephen has no support for his ridiculous claim

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5937 on: September 18, 2015, 10:53:39 AM »


the judgement is qualified by paragraph AR and AS...do you have any idea what those paragraphs state...without that the statement is incomplete...
« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 11:05:49 AM by Eleanor »

Offline Eleanor

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5938 on: September 18, 2015, 10:58:41 AM »

Deleting shortly because this is boring me half to death.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5939 on: September 18, 2015, 10:59:19 AM »
the judgement is qualified by paragraph AR and AS...do you have any idea what those paragraphs state...without that the statement is incomplete...

Really ?

Then prove me wrong.

'indisputable facts'.



« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 11:01:47 AM by Eleanor »