UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
UK and North American politics. => A look at British politics in the light of the decision to leave the EU. => Topic started by: Carana on November 12, 2021, 09:51:57 AM
-
Anyone else interested in (substantiated) views as to how Brexit has benefited the UK?
-
Anyone else interested in (substantiated) views as to how Brexit has benefited the UK?
Its difficult to see how we've benefited by brexit or how we would be better off still in the EU , is there something specific to brexit which sets it apart from still being in the eu ?
-
Presumably we don't have to shell out £350m a day or a week or whatever it was to be members, so that's one thing....
-
Presumably we don't have to shell out £350m a day or a week or whatever it was to be members, so that's one thing....
We still owe it seems.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/51110096
-
We still owe it seems.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/51110096
D’oh! Well that’s me fresh out of Brexit advantages then.
-
There never was a supposed £350m a week cost. It was actually between £150- £175m.
To a certain extent, the cost of Covid is likely to still muddy the waters for a while, both in terms of real costs and the scapegoat effect.
Impact of Brexit on economy 'worse than Covid'
Published
27 October
Richard Hughes, chairman of the Office for Budget Responsibility.
The impact of Brexit on the UK economy will be worse in the long run compared to the coronavirus pandemic, the chairman of the Office for Budget Responsibility has said.
Richard Hughes said leaving the EU would reduce the UK's potential GDP by about 4% in the long term.
He said forecasts showed the pandemic would reduce GDP "by a further 2%".
"In the long term it is the case that Brexit has a bigger impact than the pandemic", he told the BBC.
His comments come after the OBR said the cost of living could rise at its fastest rate for 30 years, with suggestions inflation could hit almost 5%.
Speaking after Wednesday's Budget, Mr Hughes said recent data showed the impact of Brexit was "broadly consistent" with the OBR's assumption that the leaving the EU would "reduce our long run GDP by around 4%".
"We think that the effect of the pandemic will reduce that (GDP) output by a further 2%," he added.
The Treasury has been contacted for comment.
What is GDP and how is it measured?
GDP or Gross Domestic Product is one of the most important ways of showing how well, or badly, an economy is doing. It is a measure - or an attempt to measure - all the activity of companies, governments and individuals in an economy.
In a growing economy, quarterly GDP will be slightly higher than the quarter before, a sign that people are doing more work and getting (on average) a little bit richer. If GDP is falling, then the economy is shrinking.
The UK voted to leave the EU in 2016 and officially left the trading bloc on 31 January 2020, however, both sides agreed to keep many things the same until 31 December 2020, before a new trade deal was announced and implemented on 1 January this year.
Supply chain problems
Both the pandemic and Brexit have played a part in current supply chain issues across the UK, and have further exposed the scarcity of lorry drivers, which has resulted in recent shortages of products for businesses and some empty shelves for customers.
However, in the OBR's latest report, the independent body said "supply bottlenecks had been exacerbated by changes in the migration and trading regimes following Brexit".
Supply chain issues has led to the government granting short-term visas to EU workers across certain sectors, including the haulage industry.
The British Poultry Council has said turkey farmers will do their best to ensure Christmas "is as normal as it can be", but warned shortages are likely, due to a shortage of seasonal overseas workers.
The government has assured consumers that turkeys will be available for the festive season and has also deployed temporary visas in a bid to bolster worker numbers.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-59070020
(Published in September 2021)
Brexit trade barriers added £600m in costs to UK importers this year
This article is more than 1 month old
Customs duties rose to record £2.2bn in first six months since trade deal came into effect on 1 January
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/13/brexit-trade-barriers-added-600m-in-costs-to-uk-importers-this-year
-
On security (as in "taking back control of our borders"):
Analysis
Brexit: Britain will be less secure without access to shared data
Finding a substitute for groups like Europol will be a challenge, says Sky's Alistair Bunkall.
Alistair Bunkall - Defence correspondent
Thursday 24 December 2020 23:26, UK
There could never have been a deal that would fully replicate or replace the shared security mechanisms enjoyed by members of the EU.
Today's deal confirms the UK will automatically forfeit its membership of Europol, Eurojust, the European Arrest Warrant and real-time sensitive data-sharing agreements such as the Schengen Information System (SIS2) when the UK exits the transition period on 1 January.
https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-britain-will-be-less-secure-without-access-to-shared-data-12172399
That was back in December... However, it would now seem that there is a temporary "extension" on access to certain EU databases, although that is conditional on an evaluation of data protection laws, which is already overdue.
Policing: EU and UK to extend post-Brexit biometric data exchange agreement
27 September 2021
The EU and UK are to extend the application of rules that allow the cross-border searching and exchange of DNA and fingerprint data by law enforcement authorities, pending an evaluation of the UK’s data protection rules, which must take place by the end of June next year.
https://www.statewatch.org/news/2021/september/policing-eu-and-uk-to-extend-post-brexit-biometric-data-exchange-agreement/
From a different article, and from memory, the UK may still be able to request information on a case-by-case basis (eg a request for a potential DNA match), but the process would take hours instead of seconds.
-
Goods transport:
Supply crisis: just 27 fuel tanker drivers from EU apply for emergency visas
Oliver Wright, Policy Editor | David Brown | Will Humphries
Tuesday October 05 2021, 12.00am BST, The Times
Members of the military, who have been training with the logistics company Hoyer in Essex, arrive at the Buncefield oil depot in Hemel Hempstead
BEN CAWTHRA/LNP; JOE GIDDENS/PA WIRE
Only 27 fuel tanker drivers from the EU have applied to work in Britain under the government’s emergency scheme to tackle the petrol crisis, ministers have been told.
It means only a fraction of the 300 visas available for HGV drivers in the fuel industry are set to be taken up in a setback to efforts to replenish supplies.
The failure to identify more drivers has infuriated Downing Street after it agreed to the demand by oil companies to fast-track applications.
The figure calls into question wider plans to recruit a further 4,700 haulage drivers from later this month to alleviate the pressure on deliveries before Christmas. They will be issued work visas lasting until March.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/supply-crisis-military-moves-in-with-tanker-deliveries-to-petrol-stations-d00gls0bc
From what I've been able to glean, this isn't just a Brexit issue, as Covid has also been a factor (driving lessons, tests postponed, etc), but that has also been an issue in other countries applying strict Covid rules. However, I didn't come across any empty shelves in the 3 EU countries I recently visited.
Again from memory of a survey of HGV drivers (or the association?), 20% ticked the Brexit boy (I thought it might have been higher). Other reasons given were: nearing retirement, Covid... and a few other reasons.
In one clip I watched, a young guy who'd been invited to apply, but turned it down due to working conditions for what he perceived as a low salary: (too much time away from a young family), Covid and Brexit hassles, and unsanitary amenities along the way.
-
I haven't even mentioned the NI protocol....
-
Oooohhh, I think I may have found one:
From the Telegraph:
Working mothers can fill vacancies at abattoirs left by European exodus, says George Eustice.
https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1462667716616146947
-
So the UK now wants only highly qualified immigrants, while UK mothers can look forward to fitting in slaughtering a few dozen turkeys between school runs. I don't remember seeing that one the side of a bus...
-
Wasn't curbing migration ("taking back control of our borders") a major selling point?
Now that Brexit has been "done", there are now 3 times as many turning up in dinghies.
https://twitter.com/EU_NO_MORE/status/1461769891585961995/photo/1
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59369179
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/explainers/migrant-crossings-on-the-english-channel/
-
My take on it is that none of this really matters to anyone who voted for Brexit, they simply don’t care about anything apart from that they won, and they were able to shove two fingers up to the EU. Life in this country will certainly be no better now IMO, and all the signs are it will get much worse. The pandemic will be blamed for most of these ills so in a way those who advocated for Brexit must be counting their blessings that it came along as a convenient excuse to deflect from the problems caused by leaving the EU.
-
I notice that this thread attracts almost as much attention as one of the few others that I actually started... something to do with a list of what Amaral got right. :)
-
I voted Brexit because I'm racist & oppose liberalism.
So for me I've got what I voted for, Britain is now more racist, & liberals are still upset by Brexit.
Anything beyond that is irrelevant to me.
-
I voted Brexit because I'm racist & oppose liberalism.
So for me I've got what I voted for, Britain is now more racist, & liberals are still upset by Brexit.
Anything beyond that is irrelevant to me.
LOL As the resident WUM, methinks I'll take your comments with a large shovel of salt.
However, you, too, could be affected ret your spending power or opportunities.
-
LOL As the resident WUM, methinks I'll take your comments with a large shovel of salt.
However, you, too, could be affected ret your spending power or opportunities.
I think general world inflation combined with woke economic policies rolled out across the west is going to f..k us all anyway.
As if the internal combustion engine can be completely replaced by around 2040.
Battery powered HGV's? Don't think so.
There's about 3 electric car charging points in my town, car owning population around 200,000.
So they only need to install another 199,997 points between now & 2040.
Should be doable.
-
The West is committing financial suicide, abandoning fossil fuels to save the planet, whilst China, the biggest world polluter, does as it pleases.
-
The West is committing financial suicide, abandoning fossil fuels to save the planet, whilst China, the biggest world polluter, does as it pleases.
I'd agree that there are major issues with electric vehicles. China seems to be forging ahead with hydrogen.
https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/china-to-spend-billions-on-hydrogen-vehicles-despite-a-minimal-supply-of-clean-h2/2-1-1030196
-
I think general world inflation combined with woke economic policies rolled out across the west is going to f..k us all anyway.
As if the internal combustion engine can be completely replaced by around 2040.
Battery powered HGV's? Don't think so.
There's about 3 electric car charging points in my town, car owning population around 200,000.
So they only need to install another 199,997 points between now & 2040.
Should be doable.
In your (world) view are the advantages of Brexit so far?
-
I'd agree that there are major issues with electric vehicles. China seems to be forging ahead with hydrogen.
https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/china-to-spend-billions-on-hydrogen-vehicles-despite-a-minimal-supply-of-clean-h2/2-1-1030196
Whilst building more coal fire power stations.
I have a Prius (Hybrid, self charging)
I thought about getting a second hand Tesla recently, although even an older one could still cost me £20,000+
There's no point though, as I live on a street with no driveway.
I'd literally have to park at a charging point on the other side of town for up to 6 or 8 hours to get a full 'tank'.
I've read about Hydrogen cars, at the moment they are inefficient, the electric gives more miles per energy consumption.
Not only that, they need clean water per kilometre, at a time when were asked to reduce water consumption.
I read a fully laden HGV would consume around 50 litres of water per kilometre.
-
Whilst building more coal fire power stations.
I have a Prius (Hybrid, self charging)
I thought about getting a second hand Tesla recently, although even an older one could still cost me £20,000+
There's no point though, as I live on a street with no driveway.
I'd literally have to park at a charging point on the other side of town for up to 6 or 8 hours to get a full 'tank'.
I've read about Hydrogen cars, at the moment they are inefficient, the electric gives more miles per energy consumption.
Not only that, they need clean water per kilometre, at a time when were asked to reduce water consumption.
I read a fully laden HGV would consume around 50 litres of water per kilometre.
Not sure how I'd cope with an electric car, either, at the moment. You can hardly hail down a passing vehicle to take you to a station to pick up a jerrycan of electricity when the battery dies on you.
That said, I'm not quite sure what this has to do with the advantages of Brexit so far. :)
-
Another key benefit of Brexit appears to be reducing immigration from the EU and replacing it with immigration from Asia. I’m sure this news will delight Brexiteers everywhere.
UK plans visa deal to tempt India into trade talks
Relaxed immigration rules could allow thousands to move from subcontinent
December 31 2021, 2.40pm
She is backed by Liz Truss, the foreign secretary, who has put securing closer ties with India at the top of the government’s agenda to counter the influence of China. The move sets up a cabinet clash with Priti Patel, the home secretary, who is said to oppose the offer.
One option being looked at is a scheme similar to the one agreed with Australia, which would allow young Indians the chance to come and work in the UK for up to three years. Another option would be to cut visa fees for students and allow them to stay in Britain for a period after they graduate.
There could also be reductions in visa fees for both work and tourism. At present it can cost an Indian citizen up to £1,400 for a work visa, while students pay £348 and tourists £95. For British tourists travelling to India the fee is £110, while a one-year business visa costs £165.
With a GDP of about £2 trillion, India is predicted to become the world’s third largest economy by 2050 but it has always been protectionist, with significant tariffs on imports.
Ministers believe a trade deal with Delhi could be transformational and give British businesses a head start in one of the most lucrative markets in the bv world. India does not have a bilateral trade deal with either the US or the EU.
• No food, no water, no hope at iPhone factory in India
A senior government source said there was an acceptance by ministers that the price of such a deal would be to make a “generous” offer on visas.
On Friday Boris Johnson promised to go “further and faster” on using post-Brexit freedoms to forge new trade agreements and ditch EU regulation. The prime minister said he would “deliver on the promise of Brexit” by boosting global trade and conducting a systematic review of all European law still on the statute books.
India has held out the prospect of agreeing a limited round of tariff cuts on products such as whisky, which attract duties of 150 per cent. However, the UK is said to want to concentrate on a more ambitious deal, including greater access to UK service industries.
One government figure said: “The tech and digital space in India is still hugely protectionist and if we could open up even a slither of access it would put us ahead of the game.”
A Department for International Trade spokesman said: “A free-trade agreement [with India] will open up huge opportunities for UK businesses.”
-
Ah Brexit. The brilliant idea that nobody can justify or explain!
-
Ah Brexit. The brilliant idea that nobody can justify or explain!
Nor even define, beyond "leaving the EU".
-
Peter Foster
@pmdfoster
NEW: Brace for 100-page “benefits of #brexit” paper on Jan 31, which is B-Day 2nd anniversary. It’s been a struggle finding ideas by all accounts. My @ft
latest with @GeorgeWParker
https://on.ft.com/3o6Sfub
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1487481792399556608
-
According to Dover MP, Natalie Elphicke, "Well here in Dover and Deal, we've been already benefitting from the so-called Brexit dividend; we've had a £100mn investment in our border facilities here and it's going to bring with it 650 extra jobs".
https://twitter.com/AlexTaylorNews/status/1494216784647499785
Am I the only one scratching my head?
-
According to Dover MP, Natalie Elphicke, "Well here in Dover and Deal, we've been already benefitting from the so-called Brexit dividend; we've had a £100mn investment in our border facilities here and it's going to bring with it 650 extra jobs".
https://twitter.com/AlexTaylorNews/status/1494216784647499785
Am I the only one scratching my head?
She lives in cloud cuckoo land.
-
She lives in cloud cuckoo land.
I always held hope that we'd eventually agree on something.
-
Brexit: Ministers tasked with looking for economic benefits of reintroducing Imperial units
“The fact the government is undertaking a study into this shows just how out of touch they are," Sarah Olney said.
by Henry Goodwin
2022-02-23 12:30
The government plans to launch a study of the economic benefits of reintroducing Imperial units of measurement, in an effort to quantify a supposed advantage of Brexit.
Ministers sparked mockery for the “ludicrous” move, which will reportedly be overseen by the business department this year.
Boris Johnson suggested in 2019 that measuring in pounds and ounces was an “ancient liberty”, as he pledged to welcome a new “era of generosity and tolerance towards traditional measurements”, the Independent reported.
‘Minister for Brexit opportunities’
The prime minister this month appointed Jacob Rees-Mogg as “minister for Brexit opportunities”, to look at how Britain might benefit from its divorce from the European Union.
Imperial-only labelling stopped being used by businesses in the early 1970s when Britain joined the European common market, but some remain attached to it regardless.
Instead of 1,000 grams representing one kilogram as under the metric system, the Imperial system says there are 14 pounds in a stone, 16 pounds in an ounce, then 256 drachms to the pound. *
And for liquid, there are 20 fluid ounces in a pint and 160 in a gallon – instead of metric’s 1,000 millilitres in a litre.
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/brexit-ministers-tasked-with-looking-for-economic-benefits-of-reintroducing-imperial-units-313176/
*Not sure if this is tongue-in-cheek or not (obviously incorrect).
-
Brexit: Ministers tasked with looking for economic benefits of reintroducing Imperial units
“The fact the government is undertaking a study into this shows just how out of touch they are," Sarah Olney said.
by Henry Goodwin
2022-02-23 12:30
The government plans to launch a study of the economic benefits of reintroducing Imperial units of measurement, in an effort to quantify a supposed advantage of Brexit.
Ministers sparked mockery for the “ludicrous” move, which will reportedly be overseen by the business department this year.
Boris Johnson suggested in 2019 that measuring in pounds and ounces was an “ancient liberty”, as he pledged to welcome a new “era of generosity and tolerance towards traditional measurements”, the Independent reported.
‘Minister for Brexit opportunities’
The prime minister this month appointed Jacob Rees-Mogg as “minister for Brexit opportunities”, to look at how Britain might benefit from its divorce from the European Union.
Imperial-only labelling stopped being used by businesses in the early 1970s when Britain joined the European common market, but some remain attached to it regardless.
Instead of 1,000 grams representing one kilogram as under the metric system, the Imperial system says there are 14 pounds in a stone, 16 pounds in an ounce, then 256 drachms to the pound. *
And for liquid, there are 20 fluid ounces in a pint and 160 in a gallon – instead of metric’s 1,000 millilitres in a litre.
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/brexit-ministers-tasked-with-looking-for-economic-benefits-of-reintroducing-imperial-units-313176/
*Not sure if this is tongue-in-cheek or not (obviously incorrect).
Johnson has made a right mess of it since leaving.
-
Instead of 1,000 grams representing one kilogram as under the metric system, the Imperial system says there are 14 pounds in a stone, 16 pounds in an ounce, then 256 drachms to the pound. *
And for liquid, there are 20 fluid ounces in a pint and 160 in a gallon – instead of metric’s 1,000 millilitres in a litre.
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/brexit-ministers-tasked-with-looking-for-economic-benefits-of-reintroducing-imperial-units-313176/ (https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/brexit-ministers-tasked-with-looking-for-economic-benefits-of-reintroducing-imperial-units-313176/)
*Not sure if this is tongue-in-cheek or not (obviously incorrect).
No, it's correct... drachms is just an alternative spelling of drams...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dram_(unit) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dram_(unit))
-
No, it's correct... drachms is just an alternative spelling of drams...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dram_(unit) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dram_(unit))
LOL Thanks, but there aren't 16 pounds to an ounce, surely?
-
Johnson has made a right mess of it since leaving.
How could it not have been a mess?
Wouldn't it have made sense for at least a SWOT analysis to have been done BEFORE the referendum?
-
For anyone interested, an analysis of the "Benfits of Brexit" paper:
http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.com/2022/02/hunting-benefits-of-brexit.html
-
LOL Thanks, but there aren't 16 pounds to an ounce, surely?
Young Cambridge graduate Henry Goodwin got that one ar$e about face, didn't he!
-
Young Cambridge graduate Henry Goodwin got that one ar$e about face, didn't he!
Or else I weigh somewhat fewer ounces than I thought I did! :)
To be fair, I've occasionally done the same in late-night editing.
-
Apparently a cartoon in the FT on Rees-Mogg's new job as Minister of Brexit Opportunities.
(https://i.redd.it/r7y8de3hr5h81.jpg)
-
Brexit: Ministers tasked with looking for economic benefits of reintroducing Imperial units
“The fact the government is undertaking a study into this shows just how out of touch they are," Sarah Olney said.
by Henry Goodwin
2022-02-23 12:30
The government plans to launch a study of the economic benefits of reintroducing Imperial units of measurement, in an effort to quantify a supposed advantage of Brexit.
Ministers sparked mockery for the “ludicrous” move, which will reportedly be overseen by the business department this year.
Boris Johnson suggested in 2019 that measuring in pounds and ounces was an “ancient liberty”, as he pledged to welcome a new “era of generosity and tolerance towards traditional measurements”, the Independent reported.
‘Minister for Brexit opportunities’
The prime minister this month appointed Jacob Rees-Mogg as “minister for Brexit opportunities”, to look at how Britain might benefit from its divorce from the European Union.
Imperial-only labelling stopped being used by businesses in the early 1970s when Britain joined the European common market, but some remain attached to it regardless.
Instead of 1,000 grams representing one kilogram as under the metric system, the Imperial system says there are 14 pounds in a stone, 16 pounds in an ounce, then 256 drachms to the pound. *
And for liquid, there are 20 fluid ounces in a pint and 160 in a gallon – instead of metric’s 1,000 millilitres in a litre.
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/brexit-ministers-tasked-with-looking-for-economic-benefits-of-reintroducing-imperial-units-313176/
*Not sure if this is tongue-in-cheek or not (obviously incorrect).
Wicket to wicket on a cricket pitch is a chain and ever more shall be so.