Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible

[Opal]

[quoteIt seems illogical to place the Bible on her throat, it would not naturally get there.  It would not naturally get on her chest either after killing herself.  It is possible Jeremy placed it somewhere on her body but then decided it was foolish and decided to put the gun instead so removed it but we have no way to know whether he did this or only put it next to her from the outset. There is no test that could determine the progression Jeremy would have to remember and talk for us to know.

The lines on the side that are slightly off kilter are a different issue. Clearly the Blood leaked down the side of the Bible while it was next to Sheila. Because the blood doesn't line up perfectly that means the Bible was moved slightly. It could have been moved by Jeremy as he was playing with the rifle or could have been moved by police. here is nothing to establish for sure whether the slight movement occurred while her blood was still wet or was dry. Police say they took the photos before moving anything at all but it would not take much to move the Bible so slightly. While it is likely Jeremy moved it ever so slightly during the staging it's not for sure this is the case.

Some people theorize that the Bible kept falling off her and closed and Jeremy decided to stick it next to her because of sit would not stay.  I doubt this because it would be so unnatural to be on her body but if this is what happened then Jeremy caught a break that it would not stay.  It being on her body would undermine the suicide staging. There is no way for her to kill herself then to fall flat and the Bible to get on her. I think that Jeremy would have recognized this I can't imagine him not realizing it.

The irony is that he may have put it in blood on purpose thinking that police would say oh it had blood on it she was reading it in between the 2 gunshot wounds she suffered as she was dying before she fired the fatal shot. If he did do such he made a mistake because putting it in her blood only helped establish someone else put it there. Some things like that are more technical and harder for someone like Jeremy to understand.

The Bible not being able to get on her body after she fell flat seems like something so basic that even he would recognize it.]     


  I agree with what you are saying Scipio...... but although you say it doesn't really matter where the bible was laying, I'm still interested in this. Today I found a website pic of SC with a clear view of a blood mark that could match the mark in the bible......but I can't get the Image to show up on here! Any Ideas? Also can you recommend a decent book on the Bamber Murders other than CAL's as I already have this.

[Caroline]

[quoteIt seems illogical to place the Bible on her throat, it would not naturally get there.  It would not naturally get on her chest either after killing herself. It is possible Jeremy placed it somewhere on her body but then decided it was foolish and decided to put the gun instead so removed it but we have no way to know whether he did this or only put it next to her from the outset. There is no test that could determine the progression Jeremy would have to remember and talk for us to know.

The lines on the side that are slightly off kilter are a different issue. Clearly the Blood leaked down the side of the Bible while it was next to Sheila. Because the blood doesn't line up perfectly that means the Bible was moved slightly. It could have been moved by Jeremy as he was playing with the rifle or could have been moved by police. here is nothing to establish for sure whether the slight movement occurred while her blood was still wet or was dry. Police say they took the photos before moving anything at all but it would not take much to move the Bible so slightly. While it is likely Jeremy moved it ever so slightly during the staging it's not for sure this is the case.

Some people theorize that the Bible kept falling off her and closed and Jeremy decided to stick it next to her because of sit would not stay.  I doubt this because it would be so unnatural to be on her body but if this is what happened then Jeremy caught a break that it would not stay.  It being on her body would undermine the suicide staging. There is no way for her to kill herself then to fall flat and the Bible to get on her. I think that Jeremy would have recognized this I can't imagine him not realizing it.

The irony is that he may have put it in blood on purpose thinking that police would say oh it had blood on it she was reading it in between the 2 gunshot wounds she suffered as she was dying before she fired the fatal shot. If he did do such he made a mistake because putting it in her blood only helped establish someone else put it there. Some things like that are more technical and harder for someone like Jeremy to understand.

The Bible not being able to get on her body after she fell flat seems like something so basic that even he would recognize it.]        I agree with what you are saying Scipio...... but although you say it doesn't really matter where the bible was laying, I'm still interested in this. Today I found a website pic of SC with a clear view of a blood mark that could match the mark in the bible......but I can't get the Image to show up on here! Any Ideas? Also can you recommend a decent book on the Bamber Murders other than CAL's as I already have this.

Hi Opal,

I also believe that he originally placed the bible on her body but moved it because as you suggest, it would have looked over staged. Which site did you see the picture?

[Opal]

Hi Caroline!

The photo was on google images, it's a close up of SC with the blood coming from her mouth down either side of her face. In the photo you can see by her head the a U typed shape of blood that could fit with the blood mark in the bible. So frustrating that I can load it on here.

[Myster]

Today I found a website pic of SC with a clear view of a blood mark that could match the mark in the bible......but I can't get the Image to show up on here! Any Ideas? Also can you recommend a decent book on the Bamber Murders other than CAL's as I already have this.

Just copy and paste the URL (the website address) into your next post, then we can link to it ourselves.

Recommended (out of print) books available on ebay, although you're better waiting until some cheaper ones come up for auction. Or your local library might be able to get hold of them from their network...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blood-Relations-Jeremy-Bamber-and-the-White-House-Fa-Wilkes-Roger-Hardback-/301879968507?hash=item464972c2fb:g:B9QAAOSwa-dWp-AW

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Murder-at-White-House-Farm-Story-of-Jeremy-Bamber-Powell-Claire-Paperback/301942987439?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36381%26meid%3Dfd035a92802441229e8db27588ba46c7%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D2%26sd%3D371289486261

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/In-Search-of-the-Rainbows-End-The-Inside-Story-of-Caffell-Colin-Hardback/141975594484?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36381%26meid%3Df929928db4d34943988d1a597287031c%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D3%26sd%3D151804846591

[Caroline]

Also surely JB would be familiar with June's handwriting since she was a fellow director at OCP. 

In one breath the CT want to give the impression of close and loving bonds hence the graveside reading.  In the next breath JB is unable to distinguish between the handwriting of his mother and sister.

I can picture in my minds eye the handwriting of all members of my family and could easily distinguish one from the other.

The note is explained in CAL's book. Jeremy mentioned in a letter to her that it was confirmed by Michael Ainsley that the handwriting was June's and it was written in her own words on a piece of card and it read - "Love one another. A determination always to act in the others' best interest, whether we feel good or not, whether we like them or not. It is an act of will, commandment to obey. Be determined to be loving and kind to every person you meet whether you like them or not. Lord Jesus in Thy mercy, teach me to love in Thy names sake, help me to live and speak as a Christian no matter what others might think."

The letter was sent to CAL in May of 2013, as such, the CT must now surely KNOW that the note in the bible was NOT Sheila's suicide note? (Or anyone else's for that matter).

[Caroline]

Hi Caroline!

The photo was on google images, it's a close up of SC with the blood coming from her mouth down either side of her face. In the photo you can see by her head the a U typed shape of blood that could fit with the blood mark in the bible. So frustrating that I can load it on here.

I have a picture of that on my lap top - is this what you mean?

[Myster]

Now that is a rarity, and one pic I've never seen before, which is why I've probably been flogging the bible stain as being a palm print by mistake.

So... is the stain definitely from the carpet... or from Sheila's palm?

[puglove]

Now that is a rarity, and one pic I've never seen before, which is why I've probably been flogging the bible stain as being a palm print by mistake.

So... is the stain definitely from the carpet... or from Sheila's palm?

I asked Mike Tesko about the circular mark (I don't think he replied). I wondered if it could have been made by Bamber wiping blood from the end of the silencer before he unscrewed it.

[Myster]

I asked Mike Tesko about the circular mark (I don't think he replied). I wondered if it could have been made by Bamber wiping blood from the end of the silencer before he unscrewed it.

Geez... that's another new one on little ol' me!  You do like to complicate things! 

[Opal]

Brilliant Caroline...thanks. The actual photo I have from off Google images also shows the blood stain under SC's arm and on her nightdress. This also has the same shape of blood! A U shape... I wish I could get it on here...

[Myster]

Because the bible stain is roughly semi-circular, the other part of the stain on the carpet should be continued above the top edge of the book in the region of the white circle (attached), whereas it's way out of alignment to the right...

[Caroline]

Because the bible stain is roughly semi-circular, the other part of the stain on the carpet should be continued above the top edge of the book in the region of the white circle (attached), whereas it's way out of alignment to the right...

The U is also facing the wrong way.

[Opal]

Here's the web address for the photo I've seen. I had to save it and blow it up to see the same blood marks as on the carpet under SC's arm. Myster I thought the blood mark under SC's arm ( being the same as on the carpet) does point to the blood on the page of the bible.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sheila+caffell+with+gun&biw=1600&bih=809&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjgy-7m1b7MAhWJlxoKHT61DvgQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=he-L-8qqoyxmkM%3A

[Holly Goodhead]

The note is explained in CAL's book. Jeremy mentioned in a letter to her that it was confirmed by Michael Ainsley that the handwriting was June's and it was written in her own words on a piece of card and it read - "Love one another. A determination always to act in the others' best interest, whether we feel good or not, whether we like them or not. It is an act of will, commandment to obey. Be determined to be loving and kind to every person you meet whether you like them or not. Lord Jesus in Thy mercy, teach me to love in Thy names sake, help me to live and speak as a Christian no matter what others might think."

The letter was sent to CAL in May of 2013, as such, the CT must now surely KNOW that the note in the bible was NOT Sheila's suicide note? (Or anyone else's for that matter).

Long time no hear Caro  . Anyway welcome back!  Thanks - as a former naughty nun I think I must have glossed over the bits with religious connotations! 

[Holly Goodhead]

Now that is a rarity, and one pic I've never seen before, which is why I've probably been flogging the bible stain as being a palm print by mistake.

So... is the stain definitely from the carpet... or from Sheila's palm?

I think I must be getting lost!  I can't see the significance in any of this?  The stain on the carpet is the wrong side of the bible based on its position above?