Author Topic: Brexit has well and truly begun!  (Read 284919 times)

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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #660 on: January 26, 2019, 08:39:56 PM »
It has taken over 40 years to have an EU referendum in the UK, all the while the EU has changed from that which existed at the time of the previous one.  David Cameron regrets making a referendum an election pledge.   He wanted to stay in Europe and maintain the status quo.  The people did not. It is not the fault of leave voters that Theresa May (a remainer) made such a hash of negociations, nor that there is an unelected individual in charge on the EU side.

I gather you also voted remain VS as I did.  I have regretted my choice, perhaps one day you will too.
Negotiations.  Why do you keep spelling this word wrong when you must have read it a thousand times this year already, if you read the daily press? 
How could I ever regret voting to remain when we are leaving the EU?  My vote counted for nothing.
Incidentally who voted for the numerous Brexit negotiators on our side?  Did you?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Sunny

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #661 on: January 26, 2019, 09:03:16 PM »
Negotiations.  Why do you keep spelling this word wrong when you must have read it a thousand times this year already, if you read the daily press? 
How could I ever regret voting to remain when we are leaving the EU?  My vote counted for nothing.
Incidentally who voted for the numerous Brexit negotiators on our side?  Did you?

None of them were my MP so no I didn't but someone voted for them.  Apart from Olly Robbins I suppose.
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Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #662 on: January 26, 2019, 09:17:38 PM »
This from Janice Turner in today’s Times sums up my position exactly (apart from I’m not a Labour member):

“I find, for the first time in my life, that I can’t convey what I want politically, only what I don’t want. Not a second referendum (less than a landslide and it won’t end the matter); not a Jeremy Corbyn government (though I’m a Labour member still); not a May government (but her likely Tory successors are worse). Not the Norway option (really, what is the point?). Neither a no-deal exit nor a nine-month delay, dragging this horror show into summer. I’m not thrilled about leaving but I don’t believe we can stay. I envy the inflexible zealots on both sides: at least they have goals. I want, what? To turn back time?”

This whole nightmare seems to be about what people don't want, not what they do.

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #663 on: January 26, 2019, 09:22:12 PM »
It is quite simple VS. The UK population using a democratic referendum decided to leave the EU,  Michel Barnier has had no democratic election putting him in charge of making decisions that will affect millions of EU and UK citizens and yet he is in charge.

Where is the democracy in that?

He's in charge of negotiating on behalf of everyone. The moderator. It's the 27 + 1 who decide.

Offline Sunny

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #664 on: January 26, 2019, 09:28:24 PM »
He's in charge of negotiating on behalf of everyone. The moderator. It's the 27 + 1 who decide.

He appears to be making the decisions on behalf of the EU rather than simply  following their wishes.   This is the impression I have gained from EU politicians comments recently.

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Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #665 on: January 26, 2019, 09:32:43 PM »
It is quite simple VS. The UK population using a democratic referendum decided to leave the EU,  Michel Barnier has had no democratic election putting him in charge of making decisions that will affect millions of EU and UK citizens and yet he is in charge.

Where is the democracy in that?


Sunny, he's in charge of the preparation and the process - he's not a one-man show. He has to listen to everyone and get them all to agree on how to move forward.


Offline Angelo222

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #666 on: January 26, 2019, 09:37:23 PM »
This whole nightmare seems to be about what people don't want, not what they do.

Weaknesses have now been found in our Parliamentary system which is allowing a handful of upstarts with their own agenda to disrupt things.  Theresa May needs to take a very firm stand here imo otherwise there is potential for civil disobedience like what is happening in France right now.

The country has made a decision albeit on a slim majority, it is now for the government to deliver that decision regardless.  These idiots calling for a people's vote or a second referendum have no interest in our country imo and are merely attempting to destroy BREXIT at any cost.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 09:40:07 PM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #667 on: January 26, 2019, 09:45:04 PM »
He appears to be making the decisions on behalf of the EU rather than simply  following their wishes.   This is the impression I have gained from EU politicians comments recently.

A member leaving is unprecedented territory. IMO, it's one thing to have a legal script to follow, that had never been tested, and another to get it to work in practice, with 28 governmennts to deal with. I don't envy his job. I don't envy May's one, either, whatever my view on the whole mess.

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #668 on: January 26, 2019, 10:00:21 PM »
Weaknesses have now been found in our Parliamentary system which is allowing a handful of upstarts with their own agenda to disrupt things.  Theresa May needs to take a very firm stand here imo otherwise there is potential for civil disobedience like what is happening in France right now.

The country has made a decision albeit on a slim majority, it is now for the government to deliver that decision regardless.  These idiots calling for a people's vote or a second referendum have no interest in our country imo and are merely attempting to destroy BREXIT at any cost.

What IS Brexit? The government can't even agree.

A slim majority of those who voted (excluding those who didn't bother or couldn't) chose to leave the EU, amidst apparently dodgy psyops campaign tactics.

That was 2.5 years ago.

Now, with just 10 weeks to go, still nothing - the why, when, what and how -  is clear.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #669 on: January 26, 2019, 11:05:55 PM »
None of them were my MP so no I didn't but someone voted for them.  Apart from Olly Robbins I suppose.
No one voted for any of them to become the chief Brexit negotiator for the UK.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #670 on: January 26, 2019, 11:15:48 PM »
Weaknesses have now been found in our Parliamentary system which is allowing a handful of upstarts with their own agenda to disrupt things.  Theresa May needs to take a very firm stand here imo otherwise there is potential for civil disobedience like what is happening in France right now.

The country has made a decision albeit on a slim majority, it is now for the government to deliver that decision regardless.  These idiots calling for a people's vote or a second referendum have no interest in our country imo and are merely attempting to destroy BREXIT at any cost.
Project Fear.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #671 on: January 26, 2019, 11:22:52 PM »
Hopefully an article we can all enjoy:

Stock up now on loo rolls, dog food, diaries and Grayling gaffes
Matt ChorleyJanuary 26 2019, 12:01am,

Britain is not good in a crisis. This is a country that loses its mind when it can’t buy KFC chicken, or when all it can get is a vegan sausage roll. Our second-busiest airport was brought to a standstill by a drone which might not have existed. We had a national nervous breakdown at the idea of changing the name of salad cream, rescuing some penguins and turning off Big Ben’s bongs.

So how are we supposed to cope if we leave the EU without a deal? A nation deprived of its Spanish little gem lettuce is certain to revolt.

Luckily, we are getting prepared. A survey of Mumsnet users revealed that more than half are stocking up on pasta, lentils and baked beans. In entirely unrelated news 56 per cent have also bought more loo roll.

A guide circulating among Facebook groups for “Brexit Preppers” offers advice on what to do if things go really bad: “You can line your toilet with plastic bags in the event of water being switched off and dispose of the contents away from your house.” Close to Boris Johnson’s house, presumably.

Pets at Home, every parent’s favourite free day out (“Look at the fish! Look at the guinea pigs! Look at the worming tablets!”) announced it was stockpiling dog food. I’m sure we will get used to the taste. Or we could just cut out the middleman and eat the dog. (I was going to say cat, but I know from previous experience with my feline-loving readers that cat people are like EU-beret wearing Remoaners without the sense of humour.)

The makers of Bisto are buying extra ingredients, which is taking stockpiling a bit literally. Iceland supermarkets, though, are not bothering. Which is bad news if you were planning to celebrate Easter with a prawn ring and a Viennetta, just like Jesus would have wanted.

WH Smith, however, announced that it was stockpiling diaries, which by definition have a limited shelf life. They are their own sell-by date. It turns out these dingy, chaotic stores are just preparing for a stationery apocalypse. Never mind Brexit; can anyone explain how WH Smith is surviving the high street bloodbath with a business model based on autobiographies by 23-year-olds, cut-price chocolate oranges and selling newspapers cheaper if you take a two-gallon bottle of water off their hands as well?

Even newspapers are stocking up on supplies of paper and ink for no deal. As anyone who has bought a printer cartridge will know, ink is one of the most mind-bogglingly expensive commodities on earth, up there between diamonds and saffron.

The government is taking no chances, and has been building up supplies of life’s essentials: medicines, fuel, iPhone chargers. There is a massive collection of Chris Grayling gaffes in a warehouse in Milton Keynes ready to be rolled out after March 29 to reassure the public that normal life is continuing. They include the reintroduction of highwaymen with muskets, filling potholes with corned beef and the revelation that HS2 actually stands for “HopScotch” not “High Speed”, meaning commuters travelling to Birmingham will have to throw a small stone and only jump on the odd numbers. And Theresa May will still be in charge, proving that whatever the ingredients, she can make a meal of anything.

"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Angelo222

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #672 on: January 27, 2019, 12:32:14 AM »
Project Fear.

One should never underestimate the power of the public if their hand is forced. Why do you think the army has been mobilised?
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline G-Unit

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #673 on: January 27, 2019, 07:27:33 AM »
As far as I can see Parliament has two choices. Accept May's deal or don't accept it. If they don't accept it the UK will leave the EU with no deal.
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Offline Sunny

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #674 on: January 27, 2019, 08:07:58 AM »
No one voted for any of them to become the chief Brexit negotiator for the UK.

Very true but if you read their comments they believe they were peripheral to the negotiations anyway.   David Davis believed he was largely ignored IMO.

The person running them was Theresa May with the advice of Olly Robbins. Theresa May was elected by her constituents to parliament then elected by other MPs to be PM.  Whether she was a good choice as PM or to carry out negotiations remains to be seen. 
Members are reminded that cites must be provided in accordance with the forum rules. On several occasions recently cites have been requested but never provided. Asking for a cite is not goading but compliance.

From this moment onward, posts making significant claims which are not backed up by a cite will be removed.

Moderators and Editors take note!