Author Topic: Brexit has well and truly begun!  (Read 284930 times)

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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #675 on: January 27, 2019, 09:05:30 AM »
One should never underestimate the power of the public if their hand is forced. Why do you think the army has been mobilised?
Project Fear.  Are you saying leaving the EU without a deal will lead to rioting on the streets, because that is why the army has been mobilized, you do realise?
« Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 09:08:22 AM by Vertigo Swirl »
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #676 on: January 27, 2019, 10:09:34 AM »
Very true but if you read their comments they believe they were peripheral to the negotiations anyway.   David Davis believed he was largely ignored IMO.

The person running them was Theresa May with the advice of Olly Robbins. Theresa May was elected by her constituents to parliament then elected by other MPs to be PM.  Whether she was a good choice as PM or to carry out negotiations remains to be seen.

That may be true, Sunny, or partially so.

On the other hand, when one of them says that it was going to be the "easiest deal in history", "over a cup of tea", or shared on TV the significance of the Dover-Calais route for shipping goods as if it were a little-known fact, saying they were sidelined sounds a bit like Larry the Cat ate their homework. LOL

Or perhaps it is true but May became so exasperated that she ended up giving them some crayons and paper and asking them to sit nicely in a corner...

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #677 on: January 27, 2019, 10:20:10 AM »
I'd forgotten that the UK is now on Brexit Secretary No. 3 - in the form of Stephen Barclay.

According to the BBC, [Barclay] voted Leave at the 2016 Brexit referendum, tweeting in February 2016 that David Cameron's attempt to renegotiate the UK's membership "did not deliver the game changer we need to protect against further EU integration"
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46241720

So hardly a remainer, either.

Jim Crace's - admittedly tongue-in-cheek description of No 3 - doesn't inspire much confidence, either:


Looking for Brexit answers? Don't ask the Brexit secretary
John Crace
 Thu 24 Jan 2019 15.47 GMT
Last modified on Thu 24 Jan 2019 20.30 GMT



Stephen Barclay’s intensive training in knowing nothing pays dividends in the Commons


Third time lucky. The first two iterations of Brexit secretary hadn’t gone well. David Davis had been too lazy and too dim to do anything very much, while Dominic Raab had been under the impression that he was in control of the process and de facto prime minister. In Stephen Barclay, Theresa May had finally found a square peg for a square hole. A man with the perfect CV. One that was almost entirely blank.

Barclay is no fool. Far from it. It takes a man of above average intelligence to recognise that his primary role is to understand as little as possible about Brexit. A job he performs with the utmost diligence by going to extraordinary lengths to remain uninformed. His ignorance is a conscious act. Every day is a battle to ward off civil servants tempting him with briefing notes, and to make sure he knows a little less than he did before. Give him time and he’ll barely be able to remember he’s a government minister. Much like everyone else.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/24/looking-for-brexit-answers-dont-ask-the-brexit-secretary

I'd find it screamingly funny if the situation weren't so serious...

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #678 on: January 27, 2019, 10:29:08 AM »
And I don't know who Corbyn would have appointed if he'd won a new general election.

Diane Abbot?

The mind boggles...

Offline Angelo222

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #679 on: January 27, 2019, 10:54:09 AM »
Project Fear.  Are you saying leaving the EU without a deal will lead to rioting on the streets, because that is why the army has been mobilized, you do realise?

No but failure to leave the EU will invoke civil disturbance.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Angelo222

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #680 on: January 27, 2019, 10:58:13 AM »
And I don't know who Corbyn would have appointed if he'd won a new general election.

Diane Abbot?

The mind boggles...

The difficulties with BREXIT are all false flags imo created by the Corbyn mob in an attempt to grab power.  So far it has failed but at what price to the rest of us.  God help us if that Marxist idiot ever became the leader of our country.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 11:00:42 AM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Sunny

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #681 on: January 27, 2019, 11:06:39 AM »
That may be true, Sunny, or partially so.

On the other hand, when one of them says that it was going to be the "easiest deal in history", "over a cup of tea", or shared on TV the significance of the Dover-Calais route for shipping goods as if it were a little-known fact, saying they were sidelined sounds a bit like Larry the Cat ate their homework. LOL

Or perhaps it is true but May became so exasperated that she ended up giving them some crayons and paper and asking them to sit nicely in a corner...

Or perhaps she never utilised them properly in the first place and relied on Olly Robbins' advice. That is the impression that David Davis gave from very early on.

Who's to say that with a competent negotiator we couldn't have achieved a deal relatively easily. Theresa May wanted to stay very close to the EU and tied her own hands behind her back.

She has totally reneged on her Lancaster speech IMO
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Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #682 on: January 27, 2019, 11:18:29 AM »
No but failure to leave the EU will invoke civil disturbance.

I presume that this is simply your assumption, or do you have inside knowledge?

There may well be, as often happens if basic neccessities are all but unobtainable.

And there may well be agit-prop hooligans joining in if they have nothing else on their calendar in April, as is also often the case.

I wouldn't be surprised if EDL-type groups aren't fine-tuning a plan of action in anticipation.

An interesting excerpt from the Wiki page on Tommy Robinson, who just happened to pop into my head.


UKIP affiliation

In September 2018, Robinson expressed a desire to join the UK Independence Party (UKIP). On 23 November 2018, UKIP leader Gerard Batten appointed Robinson as his own adviser.[136] In response, the former UKIP leader Nigel Farage described Robinson as a "thug" and said he was heartbroken with the direction UKIP was going.[137] Farage and Brown called for Batten to be removed as leader.[136] At a UKIP meeting on 30 November, Robinson sat beside Daniel Thomas, a convicted kidnapper.[138]

Many prominent UKIP members resigned from the party in response to Robinson's appointment, including two former party leaders[139], six of the party's thirteen MEPs[140] and the party leader in Scotland.[141]

UKIP's rules prohibit membership to those who have been part of extreme right wing groups in the past, which preclude Robinson from joining as he founded the English Defence League (EDL), had been a member of the British National Party, and had ties for a while with the British Freedom Party.

UKIP's National Executive Committee intends to consider waiving that clause for Robinson as a special case. If approved, his possible membership would be put to a vote at the party's conference.[142] The committee's decision was deferred until after 29 March 2019.[143] Batten supports Robinson joining the party, while UKIP Welsh Assembly members Michelle Brown and David Rowlands said they oppose it.[144]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Robinson_(activist)



Offline Sunny

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #683 on: January 27, 2019, 11:24:52 AM »
I doubt anyone on this forum is in favour of civil unrest Carana however who knows what others may do.

I also do not think anyone here would support anyone who colludes with Tommy Robinson and his ilk.

There is however a groundswell of opinion in the UK that parliament is now not working for us but only themselves. They also appear to be trying to change the law so the government of the day cannot govern without parliaments say so.

All very worrying for now and also the future regardless of the outcome of Brexit IMO.
Members are reminded that cites must be provided in accordance with the forum rules. On several occasions recently cites have been requested but never provided. Asking for a cite is not goading but compliance.

From this moment onward, posts making significant claims which are not backed up by a cite will be removed.

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Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #684 on: January 27, 2019, 11:42:06 AM »
The difficulties with BREXIT are all false flags imo created by the Corbyn mob in an attempt to grab power.  So far it has failed but at what price to the rest of us.  God help us if that Marxist idiot ever became the leader of our country.

As someone who can only cope with a small, temporary, Bollinger bandwith either side of the midpoint, you may be heartened to learn that I can't cope with Corbyn any more than Farage.

However, I haven't seen much evidence of the far-left attempting to influence people's perceptions of the potential, and now likely, consequences of Brexit.

The basic consequences of a no-deal situation, that were poo-pooed as Project Fear by the Right over two years ago, are largely correct, IMO.

It's not far-left propaganda to state that, in theory, planes will no longer have air clearance or certification, pilots won't have EU licenses to fly them, UK citizens won't have access to e-passport controls (although that appears to have been temporarily waived) or that bums have to get into gear to work out how to deal with the dozens of thousands of lorries that deliver vital supplies every day.

I expect that even in the event of a worst-case scenario, the EU will temporarily waive some rules on humanitarian grounds, but I wouldn't expect that to last too long.

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #685 on: January 27, 2019, 11:56:11 AM »
I doubt anyone on this forum is in favour of civil unrest Carana however who knows what others may do.

I also do not think anyone here would support anyone who colludes with Tommy Robinson and his ilk.

There is however a groundswell of opinion in the UK that parliament is now not working for us but only themselves. They also appear to be trying to change the law so the government of the day cannot govern without parliaments say so.

All very worrying for now and also the future regardless of the outcome of Brexit IMO.

I certainly agree that the situation is worrying.

I really don't know how far May has been trying to save her party or to genuinely attemèpt to steer her view of the best way forward between the icebergs. However much my personal view is that there was a different way forward, I don't envy her job.

And, IMO, Corbyn appears to float on some Marxist cloud, way above the chimney tops. Although there are moderates (IMO) in the Labour party, he would still call the shots... and I find that the prospect would have been equally concerning.

Both main parties are split. Instead of the usual left-right, horizontal plane, the  UK now has a matrix of Left-Right, on the horizontal plan PLUS Remain to Leave on the vertical one.

If certain, possibly foreign, parties have played a geo-strategic game to create chaos, affecting more countries than just the UK, then they appear to be winning at the moment.

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #686 on: January 27, 2019, 12:09:58 PM »
Or perhaps she never utilised them properly in the first place and relied on Olly Robbins' advice. That is the impression that David Davis gave from very early on.

Who's to say that with a competent negotiator we couldn't have achieved a deal relatively easily. Theresa May wanted to stay very close to the EU and tied her own hands behind her back.

She has totally reneged on her Lancaster speech IMO

It might be worth digging out the Yes, Minister and Yes, Prime Minister series again, methinks. I have the box-set, but my DVD player has packed up, sadly. :(

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #687 on: January 27, 2019, 12:21:26 PM »
No but failure to leave the EU will invoke civil disturbance.
Right so it’s Project Fear if the army is being mobilised in the event of no deal, but not Project Fear if the army is being mobilised in the event of no Brexit.  Right you are then...
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Sunny

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #688 on: January 27, 2019, 12:21:55 PM »
It might be worth digging out the Yes, Minister and Yes, Prime Minister series again, methinks. I have the box-set, but my DVD player has packed up, sadly. :(

I love those. Watch them on youtube from time to time.   It also looks like the writer was correct when he showed the huge influence on the largely remain (according to David Davis) civil service
Members are reminded that cites must be provided in accordance with the forum rules. On several occasions recently cites have been requested but never provided. Asking for a cite is not goading but compliance.

From this moment onward, posts making significant claims which are not backed up by a cite will be removed.

Moderators and Editors take note!

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #689 on: January 27, 2019, 12:23:29 PM »
What brilliant deal did David Davis have in mind that nasty ol’ Theresa wouldn’t let him negotiate?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly