Brexit has well and truly begun!

[Carana]

Channel 4 News
Published on Jan 29, 2019
Sabine Weyand, the EU's Deputy Brexit negotiator, gives her thoughts in a panel discussion on the Irish backstop, Theresa May's Brexit deal and the EU's future relationship with the UK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNe8qK_-wUI

[Eleanor]

I was reading about why some people think it makes sense for those living permanently in France to apply for a residency permit or carte de sejour. You may have one, but if not these people know all about it;
https://www.remaininfrance.org/carte-de-sejour.html

I don't actually need a Carte de Sejour.  It is only an identity card, and my French Driving Licence fullfills that.  I can more than adequately prove that I have lived here permanently for 25 years, and submitted an Inland Revenue Declaration for every one of those years.  I also have adequate Health Insurance.

Should things change then our local Assistant Social will have to help me as I am no longer totally compos mentis, and can't speak French anyway, said she.

But I do appreciate your desire to help.

There is such a lot of utter claptrap talked about this.  No one is going to make life difficult for me at my age, and after all of this time.

[Carana]

I don't actually need a Carte de Sejour.  It is only an identity card, and my French Driving Licence fullfills that.  I can more than adequately prove that I have lived here permanently for 25 years, and submitted an Inland Revenue Declaration for every one of those years.  I also have adequate Health Insurance.

Should things change then our local Assistant Social will have to help me as I am no longer totally compos mentis, and can't speak French anyway, said she.

But I do appreciate your desire to help.

There is such a lot of utter claptrap talked about this.  No one is going to make life difficult for me at my age, and after all of this time.

Hmmm. I think you should think about it.

[Angelo222]

I don't actually need a Carte de Sejour.  It is only an identity card, and my French Driving Licence fullfills that.  I can more than adequately prove that I have lived here permanently for 25 years, and submitted an Inland Revenue Declaration for every one of those years.  I also have adequate Health Insurance.

Should things change then our local Assistant Social will have to help me as I am no longer totally compos mentis, and can't speak French anyway, said she.

But I do appreciate your desire to help.

There is such a lot of utter claptrap talked about this.  No one is going to make life difficult for me at my age, and after all of this time.

France is going to do anything to jeopardize expats bringing money into their country or the many French working in the UK.

[G-Unit]

So Parliament has sort of said what it wants and the EU has said they're not getting it. So it continues. If a deal isn't agreed then legally we leave on 29th March without one.

[Venturi Swirl]

HOLD MY HAND WHILE WE JUMP OFF THIS CLIFF by Brian Bilston

‘Let’s jump off this cliff – it’ll be fun! A right laugh!’
urged all the people (well, I mean just over half
of those who had bothered to speak up at all).
I peered down at the rocks; it was a long way to fall.

I said, ‘This cliff’s more than three hundred feet high
and my doctor tells me if I jump I will die.’
‘Cliff-jumping’s fine!’ they said. ‘Don’t trust doctors, trust us!
We read all about it on the side of a bus.’

Worried, I met up with my local MP.
I shared my concerns. He was forced to agree:
‘Why the rocks below would smash you to bits!
Where did you get this idea of jumping off cliffs?’

‘It was the will of some of the people,’ I said
and his expression changed to another instead.
‘I think,’ he revised, ‘you’re being melodramatic.
The problem is you. You’re undemocratic.’

On the clifftop, we waited. In silence we stood.
Then a voice: ‘Remind me, why is cliff-jumping good?’
But we looked down at our shoes, baffled and stumped.
Then, out of embarrassment, we held hands and jumped.

[G-Unit]

It seems to me that the only way Parliament can stop May taking us out of the EU now is to get a vote through Parliament revoking Article 50. Whether any MP wants to propose such a course is another matter. Who wants to be seen as the MP who proposed deliberately ignoring the will of the people expressed in a democratic vote?

[Carana]

It seems to me that the only way Parliament can stop May taking us out of the EU now is to get a vote through Parliament revoking Article 50. Whether any MP wants to propose such a course is another matter. Who wants to be seen as the MP who proposed deliberately ignoring the will of the people expressed in a democratic vote?

I can't say I've seen much of those sunlight uplands that people were promised....

[Carana]

EU re changes to backstop: https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1090517326632550401

[Carana]

Promises and reassurances.
https://twitter.com/RenierRobert/status/1090537853883437057


https://twitter.com/Happy39887283/status/1090531593582755840

[Carana]

A range of comments I found interesting ...in no order.


Nina Schick
‏Verified account @NinaDSchick

It’s going well so far - Spain is lobbying furiously to put the question of Gibraltar back on the table should the WA be reopened. Other member states want to look again at fishing rights in UK waters.


John Simpson
‏Verified account @JohnSimpsonNews


When I was the BBC political editor, in the early 1980s, I was shocked by the ignorance of most MPs about the way the outside world worked. Judging from today's proceedings in Parliament, things don't seem to have changed much.


Peter Grant MP
‏Verified account @PeterGrantMP


Peter Grant MP Retweeted Jessica Elgot

Your reminder, as happens every time MPs vote on Brexit, that Tory MPs are allowed to change their minds from 2 weeks ago but 60 million people are not allowed to change their minds from over 2 years ago.


Peter Jukes
‏Verified account @peterjukes


1. Never call a referendum with a binary choice which actually has multiple answers.
2. Never start a clock on negotiations before you’ve worked out what you negotiating positions is.
3. Don’t expect your trading status to increase because you screwed up 1 and 2.


Scientists for EU
‏ @Scientists4EU
21h21 hours ago

US meat lobby "wants the sale of growth hormone-fed beef, currently banned in the UK and EU, to be allowed in the UK" post-Brexit.

So much control.



Yvette Cooper
‏Verified account @YvetteCooperMP

My speech from earlier on why No Deal & WTO tariffs would hit manufacturing, public services & hard pressed families - and why Govt needs to make sure we don’t end up with a No Deal cliff edge at end of March
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1090359099328475138

Two tweets on happily denying what Digby-Jones had said previously:

https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1090413046927970304

[G-Unit]

I can't say I've seen much of those sunlight uplands that people were promised....

I think it's too late to blame campaigners for the way people voted. All campaigns have a goal; to ensure their view prevails. In an ideal world campaigners would carry out careful research and present an honest case. In the real world they don't. Anyone who doesn't know that is living in a bubble.

It's also too late to suggest that those who voted to leave were deceived wuthout realising it. Those who think their fellow citizens are easily duped are treating them just as the media and some politicians did. It suggests that the poor ignorant easily led voters made a mistake. How patronising.

I think the truth is that people knew what they preferred and voted for it. It doesn't matter what their reasons were, it's the result that matters. 

[Carana]

I think it's too late to blame campaigners for the way people voted. All campaigns have a goal; to ensure their view prevails. In an ideal world campaigners would carry out careful research and present an honest case. In the real world they don't. Anyone who doesn't know that is living in a bubble.

It's also too late to suggest that those who voted to leave were deceived wuthout realising it. Those who think their fellow citizens are easily duped are treating them just as the media and some politicians did. It suggests that the poor ignorant easily led voters made a mistake. How patronising.

I think the truth is that people knew what they preferred and voted for it. It doesn't matter what their reasons were, it's the result that matters.

I have no problem with people voting on what they believed to be the best option, for themselves, loved ones, country.

I have no problem with campaigners putting their best foot forward.

My problem is that they were deliberately fed a mixture of misleading and even Twilight Zone "alternative facts" to get them to vote the way they did.

Some percentage of the Leave population no doubt thought that the UK would be able to invest £350m per week in the NHS. If you work in the NHS and had been faced with trying to keep up standards despite cutbacks, or if you or a loved one had been ill and had a problem due to lack of funding, I can understand that that pulls on heartstrings and reason. Except that it was never true.

Is it undemocratic to ask people, now that more information is on the table, whether their views are the same 2 years later?

[Angelo222]

I have no problem with people voting on what they believed to be the best option, for themselves, loved ones, country.

I have no problem with campaigners putting their best foot forward.

My problem is that they were deliberately fed a mixture of misleading and even Twilight Zone "alternative facts" to get them to vote the way they did.

Some percentage of the Leave population no doubt thought that the UK would be able to invest £350m per week in the NHS. If you work in the NHS and had been faced with trying to keep up standards despite cutbacks, or if you or a loved one had been ill and had a problem due to lack of funding, I can understand that that pulls on heartstrings and reason. Except that it was never true.

Is it undemocratic to ask people, now that more information is on the table, whether their views are the same 2 years later?

As I expected given the EU intransigence, more and more people who originally voted remain say that they would now vote leave in any second referendum. Hardly surprising is it given the conduct and comments by senior EU officials?

[Carana]

As I expected given the EU intransigence, more and more people who originally voted remain say that they would now vote leave in any second referendum. Hardly surprising is it given the conduct and comments by senior EU officials?

Such as?