Brexit has well and truly begun!

[Carana]

That makes sense but not with lamb.  Sheep are sheep after all. And I am not a sheep farmer either.

It looks like we import around 90% of our cod because of stocks being low.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/19/sustainable-british-cod-on-the-menu-after-stocks-recover

When these stocks rise then I imagine we will catch our own cod.

No idea when fish stocks will rise unless everyone agrees to respect international laws.

Re lamb: no idea, either. Different races, possibly, branding? No idea. Or perhaps some farmers found a niche in an export market as local supply was uncompetitive?

[Angelo222]

That makes sense but not with lamb.  Sheep are sheep after all. And I am not a sheep farmer either.

It looks like we import around 90% of our cod because of stocks being low.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/19/sustainable-british-cod-on-the-menu-after-stocks-recover

When these stocks rise then I imagine we will catch our own cod.

Tariff rate quotas (TRQs) are mechanisms under which the EU imports agreed tonnages of meat, sugar and grains from around the world with lower-than-usual duties. Brussels, which negotiates a common trade policy on behalf of all 28 states, has 124 TRQs with major agricultural exporters across the globe.

Lamb chops offer a perfect illustration of the EU’s problem after Brexit. Currently, the EU has an agreement to buy 230,000 tonnes of New Zealand’s lamb and goat meat each year, under a quota with reduced tariffs, but Britain traditionally buys 40 percent of this.

After #Brexit the UK will be free to import all it wants from Australia and New Zealand with inevitable price drop.

[Carana]

The question surely must be WHY are we importing lamb from Ireland and exporting our own?

The best case would be to use our own home grown lambs rather than going to all this extra cost and mileage.

That would seem to make sense, but trade will still continue, deal or no-deal. The UK could be swamped by cheap lamb from dubious origins, if it chooses / or has to accept lower standards in order to negotiate new deals. But how would that benefit local farmers?

[Carana]

Tariff rate quotas (TRQs) are mechanisms under which the EU imports agreed tonnages of meat, sugar and grains from around the world with lower-than-usual duties. Brussels, which negotiates a common trade policy on behalf of all 28 states, has 124 TRQs with major agricultural exporters across the globe.

Lamb chops offer a perfect illustration of the EU’s problem after Brexit. Currently, the EU has an agreement to buy 230,000 tonnes of New Zealand’s lamb and goat meat each year, under a quota with reduced tariffs, but Britain traditionally buys 40 percent of this.

After #Brexit the UK will be free to import all it wants from Australia and New Zealand with inevitable price drop.

Why would there be an inevitable price drop? And Sunny's question was why import at all.

[Sunny]

No idea when fish stocks will rise unless everyone agrees to respect international laws.

Re lamb: no idea, either. Different races, possibly, branding? No idea. Or perhaps some farmers found a niche in an export market as local supply was uncompetitive?

Apparently we consume 64% of our home grown lamb and  36% is exported according to this.

https://www.nationalsheep.org.uk/know-your-sheep/sheep-facts/

I am sure I have heard that farmers will still receive the equivalent of the EU subsidies following Brexit.

I am also sure that the subsidies were originally started by the EU to support part time farmers in France and that these same subsidies only appear to serve to increase large land rich farmers profits and also large supermarket's profits at the expense of smaller farmers.

All IMO

[Carana]

Apparently we consume 64% of our home grown lamb and  36% is exported according to this.

https://www.nationalsheep.org.uk/know-your-sheep/sheep-facts/

I am sure I have heard that farmers will still receive the equivalent of the EU subsidies following Brexit.

I am also sure that the subsidies were originally started by the EU to support part time farmers in France and that these same subsidies only appear to serve to increase large land rich farmers profits and also large supermarket's profits at the expense of smaller farmers.

All IMO

Not everything one reads on the side of a bus will necessarily be true. :)

[Eleanor]

Tariff rate quotas (TRQs) are mechanisms under which the EU imports agreed tonnages of meat, sugar and grains from around the world with lower-than-usual duties. Brussels, which negotiates a common trade policy on behalf of all 28 states, has 124 TRQs with major agricultural exporters across the globe.

Lamb chops offer a perfect illustration of the EU’s problem after Brexit. Currently, the EU has an agreement to buy 230,000 tonnes of New Zealand’s lamb and goat meat each year, under a quota with reduced tariffs, but Britain traditionally buys 40 percent of this.

After #Brexit the UK will be free to import all it wants from Australia and New Zealand with inevitable price drop.

Thank you for that information.  It explains why I have long been able to buy New Zealand Lamb in France.

France is not Sheep country, so I don't know where the fresh Lamb comes from.  But it's mortal expensive.

Some of my neighbours keep half a dozen Sheep, but that is sold privately within the Community.

[Sunny]

Not everything one reads on the side of a bus will necessarily be true. :)

OK for at least 10 years.   

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-presents-post-brexit-plans-for-agriculture/

I have always wondered why some business get subsidies and others do not. For example how much have we paid (and are to pay) Nissan etc for creating / saving up to 1000 jobs when we are prepared to let HMV, Woolworths, MFI etc all go to the wall costing many times that many of jobs.

I know HMV has now been partially saved but there will still be over 400 jobs lost - that is more than the £80 odd million that UK govt were paying to Nissan would have created.

[Angelo222]

Why would there be an inevitable price drop? And Sunny's question was why import at all.

New Zealand can produce lamb much cheaper than UK farmers can and deliver it into the UK frozen at half the price.  It is a win win for UK consumers but a disaster for Welsh and Scottish sheep farmers.

The government will no doubt bring in measures to strike a happy medium.

[Angelo222]

Apparently we consume 64% of our home grown lamb and  36% is exported according to this.

https://www.nationalsheep.org.uk/know-your-sheep/sheep-facts/

I am sure I have heard that farmers will still receive the equivalent of the EU subsidies following Brexit.

I am also sure that the subsidies were originally started by the EU to support part time farmers in France and that these same subsidies only appear to serve to increase large land rich farmers profits and also large supermarket's profits at the expense of smaller farmers.

All IMO

The UK government has said that farm subsidies will be phased out in the years following BREXIT and replaced by a system which favours those farmers who have highest environmental standards.

'The last vestiges of the EU's agricultural policy will still be in place in the U.K. in 2027 — nearly a decade after the country leaves the bloc — according to the British government's post-Brexit plans.

In the government’s first major piece of legislation mapping out post-EU policy, Environment and Food Secretary Michael Gove is set to present sweeping changes Wednesday to the agriculture sector. Gove's plan will phase out the EU’s sacrosanct direct payment scheme under the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP), which props up farmers' wages based on the amount of land they own, and instead link farmers' payments to environmental standards.

The bill will also ensure British farmers no longer have to contend with rules that critics of the CAP say are too stringent and unfit for the modern-day challenges of food production and the environment.

The cut to direct payments will kick in for the first time in 2021 and continue until they are totally eradicated after 2027. For example, annual payments of up to £30,000 will be cut by 5 percent in the first year of the transition, while payments of £150,000 or more will fall by 25 percent.

The proposal is designed to draw the curtains on a situation where the U.K.'s top 10 percent of farm subsidy recipients now rake in almost 50 percent of all EU agricultural payments that go to the country.

“After nearly 50 years of being tied to burdensome and outdated EU rules, we have an opportunity to deliver a Green Brexit," Gove said in a statement. “This Bill will allow us to reward farmers who protect our environment, leaving the countryside in a cleaner, greener and healthier state for future generations."

The bill pledges to guarantee the same amount of money now going toward the farming sector in both 2019 and 2020. Officials from Gove's Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs said the amount of money individual farmers receive after 2021 will depend on what efforts they make to improve the environment. The European Commission, meanwhile, has plans to cut CAP funding by 5 percent for the period between 2021 and 2027, though some EU27 countries — led by France — are against the move.

Britain's idea to phase out direct payments, which account for the lion's share of money inside the CAP, is linked to international pressure on farmers to help combat climate change and protect the environment. In Britain, the additional money for the environment will be paid to farmers that agree to do things such as reduce ammonia emissions, plant trees and maintain hedgerows as habitats for wildlife, the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs said.'

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-presents-post-brexit-plans-for-agriculture/

[Carana]

Thank you for that information.  It explains why I have long been able to buy New Zealand Lamb in France.

France is not Sheep country, so I don't know where the fresh Lamb comes from.  But it's mortal expensive.

Some of my neighbours keep half a dozen Sheep, but that is sold privately within the Community.

Sheep-based food products are actually quite popular in France, although perhaps not where you live.

[Carana]

OK for at least 10 years.   

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-presents-post-brexit-plans-for-agriculture/

I have always wondered why some business get subsidies and others do not. For example how much have we paid (and are to pay) Nissan etc for creating / saving up to 1000 jobs when we are prepared to let HMV, Woolworths, MFI etc all go to the wall costing many times that many of jobs.

I know HMV has now been partially saved but there will still be over 400 jobs lost - that is more than the £80 odd million that UK govt were paying to Nissan would have created.

Your guess is as good as mine. No one seems to know what they're talking about, nor where the UK is going, nor how it's going to get to this Nirvana that people were promised. Several years ago.

[Carana]

New Zealand can produce lamb much cheaper than UK farmers can and deliver it into the UK frozen at half the price.  It is a win win for UK consumers but a disaster for Welsh and Scottish sheep farmers.

The government will no doubt bring in measures to strike a happy medium.

Unless an FTA has been signed, the WTO tariff on sheap meat is 45% or thereabouts. I've heard slightly different levels, which may depend on various factors.

I'm wondering if this is the link that I couldn't find earlier.

Tariffs on UK-EU exports under WTO rules

14.Individual tariffs vary between different sectors and products. For non-agricultural goods, the average tariffs are relatively small. However, tariffs on agricultural goods are typically much higher, with the intention of protecting domestic markets.

15.The average EU tariff on dairy products is over 30%, while tariffs could be as high as 87% for frozen beef. Some other examples include a tariff of 46% for cheese or 21% for tomatoes. Some individual products have tariffs over 100%.5

16.Witnesses told us that tariff-free access to the EU was “crucial”.6 Tariffs would have a detrimental impact on those agricultural sectors that were dependent on EU exports for their profitability.

17.We heard particular concerns about the impact of tariffs on the sheep sector. The EU is very important for UK sheep meat exports, with more than 95% of its export volume destined for the EU. The Welsh lamb market is very dependent on the EU market, with 92% of exports (by value) and 85% (by volume) destined for the EU.7

18.Sheep exports, with a tariff of at least 50%, would become uncompetitive on the EU market.8 The Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board (AHDB) told us that this would have a “devastating” effect on the sector.9 The Andersons Centre estimated that in Northern Ireland alone, exports to the EU would drop by about 90%.10 It would have serious consequences in Wales, where sheep farming was such a vital part of the Welsh economy, with producer prices estimated to decrease by 30%.11
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmenvfru/348/34805.htm

[Carana]

OK for at least 10 years.   

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-presents-post-brexit-plans-for-agriculture/

I have always wondered why some business get subsidies and others do not. For example how much have we paid (and are to pay) Nissan etc for creating / saving up to 1000 jobs when we are prepared to let HMV, Woolworths, MFI etc all go to the wall costing many times that many of jobs.

I know HMV has now been partially saved but there will still be over 400 jobs lost - that is more than the £80 odd million that UK govt were paying to Nissan would have created.

Ten years. Some of us might be pushing up daisies by then. Or have had to sell the home to pay wages.

[Carana]

The UK government has said that farm subsidies will be phased out in the years following BREXIT and replaced by a system which favours those farmers who have highest environmental standards.

'The last vestiges of the EU's agricultural policy will still be in place in the U.K. in 2027 — nearly a decade after the country leaves the bloc — according to the British government's post-Brexit plans.

In the government’s first major piece of legislation mapping out post-EU policy, Environment and Food Secretary Michael Gove is set to present sweeping changes Wednesday to the agriculture sector. Gove's plan will phase out the EU’s sacrosanct direct payment scheme under the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP), which props up farmers' wages based on the amount of land they own, and instead link farmers' payments to environmental standards.

The bill will also ensure British farmers no longer have to contend with rules that critics of the CAP say are too stringent and unfit for the modern-day challenges of food production and the environment.

The cut to direct payments will kick in for the first time in 2021 and continue until they are totally eradicated after 2027. For example, annual payments of up to £30,000 will be cut by 5 percent in the first year of the transition, while payments of £150,000 or more will fall by 25 percent.

The proposal is designed to draw the curtains on a situation where the U.K.'s top 10 percent of farm subsidy recipients now rake in almost 50 percent of all EU agricultural payments that go to the country.

“After nearly 50 years of being tied to burdensome and outdated EU rules, we have an opportunity to deliver a Green Brexit," Gove said in a statement. “This Bill will allow us to reward farmers who protect our environment, leaving the countryside in a cleaner, greener and healthier state for future generations."

The bill pledges to guarantee the same amount of money now going toward the farming sector in both 2019 and 2020. Officials from Gove's Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs said the amount of money individual farmers receive after 2021 will depend on what efforts they make to improve the environment. The European Commission, meanwhile, has plans to cut CAP funding by 5 percent for the period between 2021 and 2027, though some EU27 countries — led by France — are against the move.

Britain's idea to phase out direct payments, which account for the lion's share of money inside the CAP, is linked to international pressure on farmers to help combat climate change and protect the environment. In Britain, the additional money for the environment will be paid to farmers that agree to do things such as reduce ammonia emissions, plant trees and maintain hedgerows as habitats for wildlife, the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs said.'

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-presents-post-brexit-plans-for-agriculture/

Thanks. Where's the money going to come from?