Brexit has well and truly begun!

[Carana]

There is always uncertainty, all the time, it's part of living.  "'In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes."

People try to safeguard themselves and avoid risk and discomfort, but life has a habit of slapping you down. Your job disappears, your business fails, illnesses occur.

They say we have less than 20 years to change our ways or risk losing our planet. That trumps anything Brexit can do imo.

Yes, especially when we're young, footloose and fancy-free. We've all been there.

But these are supposedly seasoned adults who represent the population and who should have got beyond the stage of playing at Peter Pan for their own gratification, and leaving everyone else in limbo. Or worse. IMO.

[Venturi Swirl]

There is always uncertainty, all the time, it's part of living.  "'In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes."

People try to safeguard themselves and avoid risk and discomfort, but life has a habit of slapping you down. Your job disappears, your business fails, illnesses occur.

They say we have less than 20 years to change our ways or risk losing our planet. That trumps anything Brexit can do imo.

We won’t lose the planet, the planet will lose us, and be better for it in the long run.  That said in the short term  why deliberately pursue an agenda that is far more likely to create  discomfort and deprivation for the population than by not pursuing it?   How do you think your grandchildren’s lives are going to improve as a result of Brexit?

[G-Unit]

Yes, especially when we're young, footloose and fancy-free. We've all been there.

But these are supposedly seasoned adults who represent the population and who should have got beyond the stage of playing at Peter Pan for their own gratification, and leaving everyone else in limbo. Or worse. IMO.

I don't know how age comes into it. No matter how old you are you can't protect yourself from everything because you can't control everything that impacts on your life.

[G-Unit]

We won’t lose the planet, the planet will lose us, and be better for it in the long run.  That said in the short term  why deliberately pursue an agenda that is far more likely to create  discomfort and deprivation for the population than by not pursuing it?   How do you think your grandchildren’s lives are going to improve as a result of Brexit?

Staying in the EU won't stop people syffering  discomfort and deprivation.

[Eleanor]

I don't know how age comes into it. No matter how old you are you can't protect yourself from everything because you can't control everything that impacts on your life.

How true.

[Carana]

I don't know how age comes into it. No matter how old you are you can't protect yourself from everything because you can't control everything that impacts on your life.

I misread your post, sorry - we were thinking of different things. You were talking about ordinary people, and I was thinking of politicians in positions of responsibility who are paid to do a job. Awarding a contract to a ferry company that didn't have ferries isn't one of the "sh*t happens" type of situations that couldn't be envisaged...

[Carana]

Staying in the EU won't stop people syffering  discomfort and deprivation.

No, but economically, there is no Brexit solution that won't make the UK poorer for some time to come. The options are about how badly the economy will be hit.

I agree that the economy isn't everything, and what is going on, IMO, goes far beyond that: it's polarising people in ways that I find disturbing.

[Venturi Swirl]

Staying in the EU won't stop people syffering  discomfort and deprivation.

You are a master (mistress) of stating the obvious.  I did not saythat it would however it is my contention that discomfort and deprivation will increase as a result.  I am not alone in thinking this either, even some prominent Brexiteers acknowledges there will be hardships as a result of leaving the EU but they don’t care as we will. have “taken back control” which will I’m sure gladden the heart of all those who may lose their livlihoods as a result.

[Sunny]

I misread your post, sorry - we were thinking of different things. You were talking about ordinary people, and I was thinking of politicians in positions of responsibility who are paid to do a job. Awarding a contract to a ferry company that didn't have ferries isn't one of the "sh*t happens" type of situations that couldn't be envisaged...

Grayling is really an idiot and should never have been given a ministerial position IMO.

I also believe that giving a remainer the job of organising brexit was just as big a mistake.

[Venturi Swirl]

Grayling is really an idiot and should never have been given a ministerial position IMO.

I also believe that giving a remainer the job of organising brexit was just as big a mistake.

I totally agree.  They should have given the job to Nigel Farage and not taken a no for an answer until he sorted it all out.  Then he could either have claimed to be the utter saviour of the UK, or end up its ultimate destroyer.  Of course he would have been 100% confident that he would have been the former and it would have been very interesting to have given him the opportunity to put his money where his mouth is. 

[Carana]

Grayling is really an idiot and should never have been given a ministerial position IMO.

I also believe that giving a remainer the job of organising brexit was just as big a mistake.

Grayling is going to be in the naughty corner.
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1094562232623656963

What I find sad at the moment is threads on Twitter of people panicking because medication is out of stock. I hope they find some, but the Grayling fiasco is just going to make people more anxious.

Re May: Don't know. Yes, she was a Remainer, but was determined to end FoM, which I suspect few Remainers want. For good or for bad (and I think she's made some bad choices, but no one really knows the extent of the mess behind the scenes), I think she's been run off her feet and feels she has to stay firm while placating everyone, which isn't possible.

I did try to think of a Leaver politician who might have been competent to deal with the mess, but I just can't think of one, unless one comes out of the woodwork.

Would it have been better to have a radical Leaver or a moderate one in charge?

The ERG brigade keep repeating "solutions" that simply don't exist. The "hard" Brexiteers in charge of the Alternative Arrangements brainwave never even went to Ireland, apparently. They called it off at the last minute.

How would they competently attempt to guide the country through this mess?

[Carana]

I totally agree.  They should have given the job to Nigel Farage and not taken a no for an answer until he sorted it all out.  Then he could either have claimed to be the utter saviour of the UK, or end up its ultimate destroyer.  Of course he would have been 100% confident that he would have been the former and it would have been very interesting to have given him the opportunity to put his money where his mouth is.

Since when has Farage ever actually done anything other than gathering soundbites? Whetherr on RT or elsewhere?

[Venturi Swirl]

Since when has Farage ever actually done anything other than gathering soundbites? Whetherr on RT or elsewhere?

It's time he owned this, or was given the opportunity to,  it's his baby after all.  What is his plan?  I think we should demand to know.

[Carana]

It's time he owned this, or was given the opportunity to,  it's his baby after all.  What is his plan?  I think we should demand to know.

But that would mean all UK citizens (plus the many Europeans also caught up in this) being left to dry while he just swans off elsewhere.

Once the referendum vote came in, he announced that his work was done. There's another clip of him thanking Bannon and Breitbart.

[Carana]

If ever, say one or two foreign powers, hypothetically of course, were seeking strategic advantages and were influencing UK politics for their own ends, with a few backhanders here or there... could they be considered to be doing well so far, or not?

And no, I'm not a conspiracy theorist in any shape or form. Just observing what's going on.

Is anyone unaware of Carole Cadwalladr's investigative reports in the Guardian, or the Cambridge Analytica exposé by Channel 4?

IMO, it makes the old scandal of MPs fudging their expenses seem like a 4-year-old refusing to admit having nicked biscuits from the tin. Naughty and tax payers had to pick up the tab, but hardly a major threat.