Brexit has well and truly begun!

[Carana]

I agree  people will be affected but will it be better in the long term to regain our sovereignty.  I watched a programme Re Cameron leading up to the referendum... He went to eorope to limit the rights of EU citizens to UK benefits... He went twice.. And each time he was basically ignored and treated like dirt by Juncker and his cronies... It may be painful but long term I think we will be better out

What do you mean by sovereignty?

In which  ways will the UK have sovereignty that it didn't have before, and in which ways could leaving make the UK lose it in some respects?

[Mr Gray]

What do you mean by sovereingty?

In which  ways will the UK have sovereignty that it didn't have before, and in which ways could leaving make the UK lose it in some respects?

What Cameron wanted: Allowing Britain to opt out from the EU's founding ambition to forge an "ever closer union" of the peoples of Europe so it will not be drawn into further political integration in a "formal, legally binding and irreversible way". Giving greater powers to national parliaments to block EU legislation.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35622105

[Carana]

What Cameron wanted: Allowing Britain to opt out from the EU's founding ambition to forge an "ever closer union" of the peoples of Europe so it will not be drawn into further political integration in a "formal, legally binding and irreversible way". Giving greater powers to national parliaments to block EU legislation.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35622105

Ok, have a look at this.

The UK didn't have to join everything.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7436.msg513323#msg513323

[Carana]

I agree  people will be affected but will it be better in the long term to regain our sovereignty.  I watched a programme Re Cameron leading up to the referendum... He went to eorope to limit the rights of EU citizens to UK benefits... He went twice.. And each time he was basically ignored and treated like dirt by Juncker and his cronies... It may be painful but long term I think we will be better out

Which benefits were these?

[Mr Gray]

Which benefitts were these?

Job seekers.. Tax credits... Child benefit... Social housing... Cameron wanted them all limited ..and I think that was quite a reasonable request

[Carana]

Job seekers.. Tax credits... Child benefit... Social housing... Cameron wanted them all limited

Have you checked on EU laws regarding how long people can stay without proof of adequate resources to sustain themselves?

[Mr Gray]

Have you checked on EU laws regarding how long people can stay without proof of adequate resources to sustain themselves?

You tell me... I'm simply quoting from the BBC article... I watched the programme and Cameron was snubbed by the EU.... His treatment was, awful

The manifesto also pledged to "end the ability of EU jobseekers to claim any job-seeking benefits at all", adding that "if jobseekers have not found a job within six months, they will be required to leave"....whats wrong with taht

[Mr Gray]

Have you checked on EU laws regarding how long people can stay without proof of adequate resources to sustain themselves?

As I said... As you have made that statement perhaps you could enlighten us...

From what I understand any EEA national registered as a jobseeker satisfies the HRT test and is entitled to a range of benefits .
I don't see the need for the emotive language you use... Crashing out of the EU.. For instance... No deal is better than a bad deal... And out may be far better long term than in

[G-Unit]

Job seekers.. Tax credits... Child benefit... Social housing... Cameron wanted them all limited ..and I think that was quite a reasonable request

The UK ended up caring for citizens from poorer EU countrys as well as for it's own people.It was never going to be reciprocal because UK citizens were never going to be attracted to live in those countries, except for retired people who were going to benefit from cheap property, a lower cost of living and sunshine.

We were told (and still are) that our economy needed those people to come here and work because we had an aging population. I found that strange because we had unemployed people here. So then we were told that our citizens were workshy. Recently EU citizens have stopped coming and others have gone back home. I see no economic collapse, so were we being told lies?

[Venturi Swirl]

The UK ended up caring for citizens from poorer EU countrys as well as for it's own people.It was never going to be reciprocal because UK citizens were never going to be attracted to live in those countries, except for retired people who were going to benefit from cheap property, a lower cost of living and sunshine.

We were told (and still are) that our economy needed those people to come here and work because we had an aging population. I found that strange because we had unemployed people here. So then we were told that our citizens were workshy. Recently EU citizens have stopped coming and others have gone back home. I see no economic collapse, so were we being told lies?

Fewer people are coming from the EU but net migration rates have stayed unchanged owing to greater numbers coming from outside the EU.

[Mr Gray]

Fewer people are coming from the EU but net migration rates have stayed unchanged owing to greater numbers coming from outside the EU.

How accurate are the figures...


CHARITYFull Fact
MENU
Home Europe EU immigration
EU immigration to the UK: what the National Insurance numbers reveal
Published: 12th May 2016

Earlier this year, there was controversy over whether our immigration estimates have been missing large numbers of immigrants from the rest of the EU, with some outlets accusing officials of a “cover up”.

Routine immigration estimates in February suggested around 257,000 nationals from other EU countries migrated to the UK in the year to September 2015.

But another set of figures showed that 655,000 National Insurance (NI) numbers had been issued to EU nationals over the same period. NI numbers are allocated to foreign nationals looking to work or claim benefits in the UK.

https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/

[Venturi Swirl]

How accurate are the figures...


CHARITYFull Fact
MENU
Home Europe EU immigration
EU immigration to the UK: what the National Insurance numbers reveal
Published: 12th May 2016

Earlier this year, there was controversy over whether our immigration estimates have been missing large numbers of immigrants from the rest of the EU, with some outlets accusing officials of a “cover up”.

Routine immigration estimates in February suggested around 257,000 nationals from other EU countries migrated to the UK in the year to September 2015.

But another set of figures showed that 655,000 National Insurance (NI) numbers had been issued to EU nationals over the same period. NI numbers are allocated to foreign nationals looking to work or claim benefits in the UK.

https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/

Whatever the veracity of the figures Brexit is not going to stop immigration, if anything it will grow post Brexit if the article I posted earlier is correct.

[Carana]

The UK ended up caring for citizens from poorer EU countrys as well as for it's own people.It was never going to be reciprocal because UK citizens were never going to be attracted to live in those countries, except for retired people who were going to benefit from cheap property, a lower cost of living and sunshine.

We were told (and still are) that our economy needed those people to come here and work because we had an aging population. I found that strange because we had unemployed people here. So then we were told that our citizens were workshy. Recently EU citizens have stopped coming and others have gone back home. I see no economic collapse, so were we being told lies?

Whether there will be an economic collapse may depend on the outcome (which no one knows, including the government). The economy might not "collapse", but could head towards a major recession with no obvious means of getting back on track.

For every company that shifts operations to an EU country, or small businesses that end up throwing in the towel, what will offset the economic consequences?

[Carana]

I had to look up this Tier 2 visa thing to work in the UK.

NHS urges easing UK visa rules for non-EU medical recruits
Employers join campaign after applications from Europe dry up following Brexit vote

(...)

   The visa cap has hit the NHS particularly hard because the points-based system sorts applicants partly according to their expected salary, with the minimum fluctuating according the number of excess applicants and their points ratings. The lowest eligible salary in January was £46,000, according to the Home Office.

Many would-be immigrant doctors would earn too little to qualify. The University Hospitals Birmingham NHS Foundation Trust has said it has had 18 applicants rejected because of the issue.

https://www.ft.com/content/5f80cdf0-0dba-11e8-8eb7-42f857ea9f09

This dates from 2017, so I'm not sure whether it's still the case or not.

NHS nursing: Up to 40,000 posts unfilled

The Royal College of Nursing (RCN) estimates that the NHS in England has as many as 40,000 unfilled posts. It's now calling for staffing levels to be guaranteed in law.

The Conservatives say there are thousands more nurses on the wards of acute hospitals in England.

But the chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing, Janet Davies, says the situation is unacceptable.

    14 May 2017
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-39913481/nhs-nursing-up-to-40000-posts-unfilled

[Mr Gray]

Whatever the veracity of the figures Brexit is not going to stop immigration, if anything it will grow post Brexit if the article I posted earlier is correct.

Nothing wrong with immigration but it should be controlled immigration.... Not an open door with access to our welfare, system.... Immigration for jobs fine.... Not for welfare