Author Topic: Brexit has well and truly begun!  (Read 284924 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1815 on: May 29, 2019, 05:42:50 PM »
Do we already trade with the EU on WTO rules because that was obviously what I was referring to!

If that's what you meant then
a) why don't you know and
b) why are you asking me.
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1816 on: May 29, 2019, 05:57:56 PM »
I suggest you read this.  It's from a Leave website so it must be right!
http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128

They are just another group advocating their own version of 'Leave'. What makes you think they must be right?
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1817 on: May 29, 2019, 08:21:06 PM »
If that's what you meant then
a) why don't you know and
b) why are you asking me.

I asked
So the people of Britain have voted to leave the EU on WTO rules have they?
To which the answer is clearly NO, yet this is what you appear to believe must happen to fulfil the will of the people - only it isn’t the will of the people.   (&^&
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1818 on: May 29, 2019, 08:21:54 PM »
They are just another group advocating their own version of 'Leave'. What makes you think they must be right?
Did you actually read the article?  Perhaps you could tell us why they are wrong.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1819 on: May 30, 2019, 06:17:08 AM »
Did you actually read the article?  Perhaps you could tell us why they are wrong.

Do they want to cut all ties with the EU? That's what people voted for.
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1820 on: May 30, 2019, 07:21:47 AM »
Do they want to cut all ties with the EU? That's what people voted for.
Who is “they”?  The people certainly did not vote to cut all ties with the EU,  what on earth do you mean?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1821 on: May 30, 2019, 07:25:12 AM »
I suggest you read this.  It's from a Leave website so it must be right!
http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128

That must be one of the few times (first?) I've ever read / heard Leave HQ state anything accurate. It is, however, over two years' old.

If they were aware of the facts then, how can they unknow them now?

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1822 on: May 30, 2019, 07:35:42 AM »
Something I wasn't aware of until relatively recently via trade experts: I think there's a bit of semantic confusion between WTO rules (the rules that all members must adhere to) and terms (the bare-bones skeleton that members attempt to improve on).

I.e., all members are expected to adhere to the rules, but none (or very few) trade solely on WTO terms.

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1823 on: May 30, 2019, 07:39:29 AM »
From Switzerland, the land of referendums, par excellence:

Court overturns referendum as voters were poorly informed ... in Switzerland

Incomplete detail and lack of transparency invalidated vote on tax laws, says supreme court

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/11/switzerland-court-overturns-referendum-as-voters-were-poorly-informed

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1824 on: May 30, 2019, 08:12:08 AM »
This sums things up perfectly IMO

Tory members are hijacking democracy
Jenni RussellMay 30 2019, 12:01am,
A tiny and unrepresentative group of voters should not be allowed to select a prime minister


Few sentences have so infuriated me recently as Theresa Villiers’ concluding words on Radio 4’s The World at One on Tuesday. Asked who she would be backing in the Tory leadership election, the former Northern Ireland secretary refused to commit, adding in a reverential tone: “It is a huge decision to be part of picking the next prime minister of our country”.

Yes. Indeed it is. Especially when that prime minister is about to decide the most crucial issue facing the country since 1940. And yet 99.66 per cent of the electorate are denied a vote. At its heart the whole Brexit question has been about people feeling powerless and wanting more of a voice in the critical issues deciding their lives. Just as that process reaches its peak, the vast majority of us have simply been cut out.

The Tory candidates only have one electorate to win over; the completely unrepresentative sect that is today’s Conservative Party. The rest of us have been reduced to impotent spectators. We are witnessing the most staggeringly undemocratic political takeover of my lifetime.

For those arguing that this choice is no different from the earlier replacements of sitting prime ministers by their parties: it is. When Callaghan replaced Wilson, Major took over from Thatcher and Brown from Blair, those were all changes of personnel rather than policy. None of them proposed dramatically different policies from their predecessors, let alone pursued a momentous decision which would reverberate for decades and which they were too frightened to put to the public for ratification.

It is starkly different now. There is no majority in the country for a no-deal Brexit, and no mandate for it from either a referendum or election. Theresa May was never prepared to pursue it, despite her destructive reiteration of “no deal is better than a bad deal”. Yet that is what is being entertained by the leading Tory contenders, such as Boris Johnson and Dominic Raab.

If their unicorn promises of a fresh deal fail, as they will, they say they are willing to let Britain crash out of the EU at the end of October, breaking our financial commitments and wreaking extraordinary damage on jobs, trade, investment and international credibility. They can ignore the electorate because the only one that counts in the immediate future is the tiny radicalised minority within their party.

We are allowing 160,000 people who in no way reflect the country’s wishes to choose a prime minister who bows to their own extreme views. It is impossible to know exactly who those voters are, since the party guards that information jealously and refuses to release it. We know more about the makeup of the Chinese Politburo than we do of these powerbrokers.

What we do know, from research by the Economic and Social Research Council, is how unlike most voters they are in their views, age, sex and location. Three quarters are men, unlike even Tory voters as a whole, who split 50:50; 44 per cent are over 65, compared with 18 per cent of all voters; almost 60 per cent live in the south and east.

Critically they are complete outliers in their backing for no-deal. Only 35 per cent of voters in last week’s European elections backed parties explicitly pursuing no-deal. Yet almost two thirds of Tory members are thought to prefer no-deal to the withdrawal agreement. That’s why in this election the successful contestants are being driven to a political extreme. The one who opposes it on principle, Rory Stewart, knows he is running against the Tory tide.

No-deal would be a disaster. It does not mean an end to the Brexit dispute and the start of a proud independent existence, as supporters claim. It means instant turmoil and a sudden catastrophic end to the invisible arrangements that underpin our lives, as ports are blocked because free movement of goods stops, medicines run short, supermarket shelves empty of fresh goods, and the legal basis for almost two thirds of our trade collapses.

It would have us begging Brussels to agree new arrangements as businesses folded. The EU would hold all the power, and since we would have reneged on everything the UK had ever promised or negotiated, we’d have killed off every remnant of trust and goodwill.

Johnson, Raab, Esther McVey and the rest know voters don’t want this, but to triumph as PM they must ignore that fact. They are pushing the question of party electability to the back of their minds; that’s a problem far in the future. They are fighting only to maximise their individual chances of power now.

When Jeremy Hunt warned urgently this week that no-deal would be “electoral suicide” he was telling the truth. It was reported as a gaffe, because coming from a leadership contender, it is. He immediately lost some support among MPs for daring to say so. Only lies and liars, it appears, are going to triumph in this contest now.

The public are trapped by this horror show, left only with the hope that parliament and its speaker can do the job of representing the nation and find a way to block the possible imposition of a catastrophic departure. Every tool they can use to redress this undemocratic coup should be seized. But in future we the voters must demand a change in parliament’s laws, requiring that a replacement prime minister hold a general election within three months. That would force all leadership candidates to appeal to the country too. Our democracy is being hijacked. Never again.

"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1825 on: May 30, 2019, 10:23:01 AM »
Who is “they”?  The people certainly did not vote to cut all ties with the EU,  what on earth do you mean?

'They' are the commentators and bloggers behind that website. Like a lot of others you seem to have a problem understanding what 'leave' means. Well 17.4 million people understood it, and 16.1 million people understood what 'remain' meant.
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Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1826 on: May 30, 2019, 10:54:22 AM »
Not sure how people could have known. Who was openly advocating crashing out without a deal in the lead-up to the referendum?

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1827 on: May 30, 2019, 10:57:49 AM »
From Switzerland, the land of referendums, par excellence:

Court overturns referendum as voters were poorly informed ... in Switzerland

Incomplete detail and lack of transparency invalidated vote on tax laws, says supreme court

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/11/switzerland-court-overturns-referendum-as-voters-were-poorly-informed


So what did the voters do? change their vote?

It is sheer manipulation of facts that make the remoaners claim people who voted to leave the EU were persuaded by BOJO and his NHS  fantasy.

They seem to forget those who voted to get out probably never voted to get in- in the first place! Should we then go back in time and reverse THAT  fiasco! Claim we were mislead by greedy sleazy politicians and EU elite who stood to benefit the most financially? Taxed us to the hilt with excruciating 20%VAT on almost everything? 

Just to add insult to remoaners injury- it  was Phony Tony Bliar who became prime minister with only a minority of the population actually voting and... lucky him he got a majority of the minority.  now he just doesn't like em maffs fings dont he, cuz it dunt suit ...


Oh dear, what a shame:

Boris Johnson to face court over alleged EU referendum misconduct
The PM contender will face allegations he lied before the EU referendum over how much money the UK sent to the EU each week.
https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-to-face-court-over-alleged-eu-referendum-misconduct-11730747?fbclid=IwAR1WzV2tOvJnPfHj6C263poyGsWovZxzc_s1mKwk1guQxPgzGbLHMAAIVVU




A private proscecution  tsk.  now back to remoaners greatest asset- phony Tony- Weapons of mass distruction lets go kill us some iraqi kids...No proscecution! Oh Dear.
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1828 on: May 30, 2019, 11:10:44 AM »
Hopefully someone will.
Don't worry overmuch about it all.
If independence does happen I'm sure it will all be sorted much like all will be sorted when we leave the EU.
Hopefully all the EU countries will still allow us Brits to use their roads, sea and air space. @)(++(*

Hopefully someone will.


Yes because crossing fingers makes things happen

Don't worry overmuch about it all.

I have nothing to worry about- I enjoy my life!

If independence does happen I'm sure it will all be sorted much like all will be sorted when we leave the EU.

Why keep it a secret why not tell us the truth about the real disadvantages and benefits of leaving UK and joining EU?  I am sure you can answer that question no problem.

Hopefully all the EU countries will still allow us Brits to use their roads, sea and air space. @)(++(*


There you go with that hope thing again. Crossing fingers -Not a great way to make descisions- I was talking about ENGLAND closing  its borders.

Still laughing at that prospect? ^*&&

« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 07:36:27 PM by Angelo222 »
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1829 on: May 30, 2019, 04:24:48 PM »
Not sure that Trump announcing his respect for Farage and BoJo is necessarily a badge of honour...
https://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-could-meet-good-guys-nigel-farage-and-boris-johnson-during-uk-trip-11731717
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 07:38:14 PM by Angelo222 »