Brexit has well and truly begun!

[Erngath]

I find your ignorance of the EU agenda to be astonishing, I find the blame game on the English to be tiresome. I am asking hard questions about the future my country and you and SOME SNP candidates and voters only want to play point scoring.

Answer the questions- tell me what I am missing -I have a good debating skill I will listen intently, but if all you have is  'bloody tories' and 'bloody boris' and 'bloody English'  then forget it.

It may surprise you that I know of three SNP candidates voted for Brexit AND stay in the union! AND they are afraid to admit it it publicly -as the SNP do not like anyone who disagrees with queen of Scotland sturgeon.

How many Tory seats were lost to SNP in Scotland? How many Labour?

"Good debating skills" ?
I don't think so.
You become irate and insulting and make false accusations.
You certainly don't "listen intently"!
If you did, you would not have reached the ridiculous conclusions which are in your posts.

[Erngath]

I do hope that you are right.

Much as I hope there will be another Independence referendum, I don't think it should be within the next two years..
It's an interesting and much changing political landscape here.
Some of our friends both from steadfast Conservative and Labour backgrounds have now altered their political allegiance and would vote yes.
Within our family there is a member who voted no last time because we would be out of Europe but will now vote yes and one member who voted yes last time because he wanted out of Europe and is now reconsidering any future vote.
Interesting times ahead!

[Miss Taken Identity]

"Good debating skills" ?
I don't think so.
You become irate and insulting and make false accusations.
You certainly don't "listen intently"!
If you did, you would not have reached the ridiculous conclusions which are in your posts.

I never get irate- that is your feeble opinion.
False accusation?  OK.name and shame!

My debating skill are absent due to the facts you have not provided your case within your 'argument'

So please continue... enlighten me with your knowledge and that of your granddaughter, about the fiscal and trade with Eu will be explained.  Not sure? just ask Nickie  she would love to assist you with us ignorant, plebby types.

You are calling the Lisbon Treaty a good thing after you read it? OK fairynuff.

[Erngath]

I never get irate- that is your feeble opinion.
False accusation?  OK.name and shame!

My debating skill are absent due to the facts you have not provided your case within your 'argument'

So please continue... enlighten me with your knowledge and that of your granddaughter, about the fiscal and trade with Eu will be explained.  Not sure? just ask Nickie  she would love to assist you with us ignorant, plebby types.

You are calling the Lisbon Treaty a good thing after you read it? OK fairynuff.

You do appear to get very irate when posting at times. IMO.
Not tonight. A much more rational post apart from the usual insult.
Is your query about the fiscal and trade with the EU relate to the fact that the UK now has to renegotiate our trading agreements with Europe?
The false and ridiculous accusation is that I and others support Independence because we hate b****y Boris and the b****y English.
An utterly ridiculous suggestion.

[Miss Taken Identity]

You do appear to get very irate when posting at times. IMO.
Not tonight. A much more rational post apart from the usual insult.
Is your query about the fiscal and trade with the EU relate to the fact that the UK now has to renegotiate our trading agreements with Europe?
The false and ridiculous accusation is that I and others support Independence because we hate b****y Boris and the b****y English.
An utterly ridiculous suggestion.

The questions relate to independence from England.  Nothing to do with Brexit. What will we do for currency and trade ie imports and exports via England?  Oh I don't think so. The EU and England can and will shut it's borders.

There is a very anti English voice within the SNP deny it all you want-   mainly ' we don't want to be ruled by the English' but want to be ruled by non elected bureaucrats in the EU. OK fine, but say it like it is and not a dream about  freedom! cos you aint gonna have any of that nonsense with the Lisbon Treaty.

Now: let me hear your argument- thank you in my non irate voice. :)

[Erngath]

The questions relate to independence from England.  Nothing to do with Brexit. What will we do for currency and trade ie imports and exports via England?  Oh I don't think so. The EU and England can and will shut it's borders.

There is a very anti English voice within the SNP deny it all you want-   mainly ' we don't want to be ruled by the English' but want to be ruled by non elected bureaucrats in the EU. OK fine, but say it like it is and not a dream about  freedom! cos you aint gonna have any of that nonsense with the Lisbon Treaty.

Now: let me hear your argument- thank you in my non irate voice. :)

I agree I don't want to be ruled by whatever the electorate of English voters choose to put in their ballot boxes.
You obviously do.
However many here and especially our young people have realised  their votes  count for nothing.
No anti English dislike or hatred, just a desire to hope that when they put their vote in a ballot box, it could even possibly and remotely result in what they wish for.

[Miss Taken Identity]

I agree I don't want to be ruled by whatever the electorate of English voters choose to put in their ballot boxes.
You obviously do.
However many here and especially our young people have realised  their votes  count for nothing.
No anti English dislike or hatred, just a desire to hope that when they put their vote in a ballot box, it could even possibly and remotely result in what they wish for.

OK.. let us discuss this since you do not have an argument.

The Scottish people have a great affiliation with the rest of the UK. we fought wars,created wealth together. we share a lot in common with regards to community.

 The Scottish have MP's who can challenge the government on many issues which they do, regularly, sometimes it is good causes other times just'victim' rhetoric.
The Scots were have their own parliament and laws, they can vote MSP's in our out.   

note this WE CAN VOTE. in general elections to make changes.  You yourself have made stupid claims about Scotland not wanting brexit via a vote (which the Scots never had in A STAND ALONE REMIT).

What is it your grandaugher and her young 'victim' oppressed by the English friends want? a vote to make a change?

"However many here and especially our young people have realised  their votes  count for nothing"



READ THE LISBON TREATY!  and stop with the opinions.  tell me what it is I am missing in this wonderland you present?  If it is about voting and being listened to then...you are on a loser there.

The Irish people voted against it TWICE and it was imposed on them anyway.

[Erngath]

OK.. let us discuss this since you do not have an argument.

The Scottish people have a great affiliation with the rest of the UK. we fought wars,created wealth together. we share a lot in common with regards to community.

 The Scottish have MP's who can challenge the government on many issues which they do, regularly, sometimes it is good causes other times just'victim' rhetoric.
The Scots were have their own parliament and laws, they can vote MSP's in our out.   

note this WE CAN VOTE. in general elections to make changes.  You yourself have made stupid claims about Scotland not wanting brexit via a vote (which the Scots never had in A STAND ALONE REMIT).

What is it your grandaugher and her young 'victim' oppressed by the English friends want? a vote to make a change?

"However many here and especially our young people have realised  their votes  count for nothing"



READ THE LISBON TREATY!  and stop with the opinions.  tell me what it is I am missing in this wonderland you present?  If it is about voting and being listened to then...you are on a loser there.

The Irish people voted against it TWICE and it was imposed on them anyway.

So not bothered when you vote in the next UK election or UK referendum that your vote means zilch?

[G-Unit]

So not bothered when you vote in the next UK election or UK referendum that your vote means zilch?

If the Scots get another referendum and vote to leave the UK they will be alone. The overspending by their devolved government means they are not eligible for EU membership. The austerity imposed on the rest of the UK will pale into insignificance compared with what the Scottish will have to face to balance their books imo.

[Erngath]

If the Scots get another referendum and vote to leave the UK they will be alone. The overspending by their devolved government means they are not eligible for EU membership. The austerity imposed on the rest of the UK will pale into insignificance compared with what the Scottish will have to face to balance their books imo.

Just in your opinion .
Well not to worry then.

To add.
Opinion poll now indicating 50 %  would now vote for Independence.
A few years from now that will increase.
Quite content to wait..

[misty]

So not bothered when you vote in the next UK election or UK referendum that your vote means zilch?

In the hypothetical event of an independent Scotland which has joined the EU, what would you expect the value of your vote to be in any election?

[Erngath]

In the hypothetical event of an independent Scotland which has joined the EU, what would you expect the value of your vote to be in any election?

Much the same as any French citizen, Spanish citizen, Italian citizen,  in any of their vote in their own election to form their own government.??

Not too sure of which type of election you are referring to.

[misty]

Much the same as any French citizen, Spanish citizen, Italian citizen,  in any of their vote in their own election to form their own government.??

Not too sure of which type of election you are referring to.

Those European countries have been independent for years and have their own constitutions. Scotland only has certain devolved powers at present which don't include immigration, trade & industry & defence. What will your vote be worth if your presiding government achieve independence from UK & then underwrite a constitution broadly unacceptable to the electorate but in line with EU requirements for membership?

[Erngath]

Those European countries have been independent for years and have their own constitutions. Scotland only has certain devolved powers at present which don't include immigration, trade & industry & defence. What will your vote be worth if your presiding government achieve independence from UK & then underwrite a constitution broadly unacceptable to the electorate but in line with EU requirements for membership?

When did Ireland gain independence?

[misty]

When did Ireland gain independence?

Are you referring to the Irish Republic, where votes in referendums regarding the Nice & Lisbon treaties returned a negative result but were subsequently ignored/overturned by the government?