Wandering Off Topic

[Mr Gray]

Considered opinion, a finding, a decision.

Still opinion

[Robittybob1]

Still opinion

Yeah OK.

[Holly Goodhead]

That situation might well have been resolved had the third known person present in the locale been able to participate in the documentary, but it is unimportant because they saw no-one.  But as pointed out on camera the putative positioning of Jes and Gerry was immaterial to what Jane saw as her vision of the important event was not obscured wherever Jes and Gerry had been standing.

Therefore the only witness to the unknown man carrying a child away from the direction of Block 5 was Jane Tanner who has remained resolute in describing exactly what she saw and exactly where  and when she saw it.

DCI Redwood never identified anyone nor did he mention any direction of travel unless you can provide a quote showing he did.

But BO makes clear in her wit stat that it wasn't unusual to observe adults walking around with children in arms at night due to the fact a night creche operated.

Why would DCI Redwood, or any other police officer, identify Dr T?  Surely to do so would be unprofessional hence DCI R refers to a British holidaymaker.  We have no idea exactly what communication has taken place between DCI R and the British holidaymaker.  If 'Tannerman' has been ruled out by the MET I wouldn't mind betting it was not only based on the location and time but also the physical descriptions and clothes matching 'Tannerman' and child.  Now what would be the chances of MM's abductor also being in the same location at the same time, matching the same physical descriptions and clothes worn.  Plus the s&r dogs did not track MM in that location. 

Imo this whole 'Tannerman' sighting needs consigning to the bin. 

[Miss Taken Identity]

But BO makes clear in her wit stat that it wasn't unusual to observe adults walking around with children in arms at night due to the fact a night creche operated.

Why would DCI Redwood, or any other police officer, identify Dr T?  Surely to do so would be unprofessional hence DCI R refers to a British holidaymaker.  We have no idea exactly what communication has taken place between DCI R and the British holidaymaker.  If 'Tannerman' has been ruled out by the MET I wouldn't mind betting it was not only based on the location and time but also the physical descriptions and clothes matching 'Tannerman' and child.  Now what would be the chances of MM's abductor also being in the same location at the same time, matching the same physical descriptions and clothes worn.  Plus the s&r dogs did not track MM in that location. 

Imo this whole 'Tannerman' sighting needs consigning to the bin.

"Imo this whole 'Tannerman' sighting needs consigning to the bin."


It has by SY.  they obviously checked this out, identified  someone who maybe came forward. And this changed the timeine again for the T9.

Although I am still of the opinion that the time of MBM's disappearance could have been just after parents left at appx 8.30- 10 pm. huge window and MBM would have been long gone if she got lost/run over by a car/fell down  and picked up by someone.   This is not a theory, just a reminder that a longer time was possible, why stick to minutes for an abduction to take place inbetween many checks that eve (coincedence;the most checks were that eve including two physical checks claimed.) and the circumstances in which Kate found MBM missing. (moving doors)

[Admin]

JW also drew a map where he showed their chatting spot.  He carefully placed it at the alleyway entrance.

JW also states that when he was at the little car park opposite Tapas Reception, he saw Gerry was coming down the steps at the little gate as he exited 5A.  If they walked towards each other, they would have met somewhere in the region that Gerry states.  I think they met in the middle of the road and moved back to the safety of a gap in parked cars when a vehicle wanted to come thru. 


They moved back to the pavement edge / road where Jane Tanner saw them, which co-incidentally is exactly the spot that JW drew on his map.

That is not strictly correct Sadie.  Jeremy Wilkins first noticed Gerry McCann walking along the footpath on the other side of the road to where he was.  He assumed that GM had emerged from 5a via the front gate.  Wilkins added that he crossed the road to intercept him, thereafter both stood chatting by the side of the road with Gerry still on the footpath while he remained on the road with the pram.  This is also how Jane Tanner explained the event. Gerry McCann however insists that it was he who crossed the road to chat to Jeremy Wilkins, clearly he remembers the event incorrectly.

[Brietta]

But BO makes clear in her wit stat that it wasn't unusual to observe adults walking around with children in arms at night due to the fact a night creche operated.

Why would DCI Redwood, or any other police officer, identify Dr T?  Surely to do so would be unprofessional hence DCI R refers to a British holidaymaker.  We have no idea exactly what communication has taken place between DCI R and the British holidaymaker.  If 'Tannerman' has been ruled out by the MET I wouldn't mind betting it was not only based on the location and time but also the physical descriptions and clothes matching 'Tannerman' and child.  Now what would be the chances of MM's abductor also being in the same location at the same time, matching the same physical descriptions and clothes worn.  Plus the s&r dogs did not track MM in that location. 

Imo this whole 'Tannerman' sighting needs consigning to the bin.

You many years after the event and  at the time the Judicial Police led by Amaral.  In the meantime Madeleine remains missing.  Wonder if that is partly as a result of consigning witness evidence 'to the bin' before it was properly investigated?

[Holly Goodhead]

You many years after the event and  at the time the Judicial Police led by Amaral.  In the meantime Madeleine remains missing.  Wonder if that is partly as a result of consigning witness evidence 'to the bin' before it was properly investigated?

I'm sorry I don't understand the first sentence? 

But we can see the British police are also guilty for not investigating witness evidence thoroughly.  Dr T and Mrs T claim they contacted British police in the early days but it then took years to connect this with 'Tannerman' and when it was connected it was done through the creche records. 

As I've said previously if my theory/suspect(s) are correct it will reflect very badly on British police. 

[Holly Goodhead]

"Imo this whole 'Tannerman' sighting needs consigning to the bin."


It has by SY.  they obviously checked this out, identified  someone who maybe came forward. And this changed the timeine again for the T9.

Although I am still of the opinion that the time of MBM's disappearance could have been just after parents left at appx 8.30- 10 pm. huge window and MBM would have been long gone if she got lost/run over by a car/fell down  and picked up by someone.   This is not a theory, just a reminder that a longer time was possible, why stick to minutes for an abduction to take place inbetween many checks that eve (coincedence;the most checks were that eve including two physical checks claimed.) and the circumstances in which Kate found MBM missing. (moving doors)

Well if the British holidaymaker DCI Redwood refers to is Dr T then according to The Sun Dr T and Mrs T apparently came forward in the early days and said they thought 'Tannerman' and Dr T might be one and the same:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6225547/madeleine-mccann-gp-sighting-waste/

With regard to why he might have been walking in the opposite direction to the one expected this might be down to JT suffering confirmation bias, just wrong with her recollections or maybe Dr T had some reason for walking in that direction. 

I agree imo MM disappearing from 5A could have happened at any time from approx 8.30 pm - 10 pm.  I'm not convinced about GM's claims of a physical check on the children at circa 9pm and I'm not convinced JT/ROB and MO were checking at the front.  This potentially means the abductor could have crept in the side gate at any time after the McCanns left and he/she had free reign at the front.  I guess the only exception to this is whether or not the Paynes and DW left via the front or back?   

[Brietta]

I'm sorry I don't understand the first sentence? 

But we can see the British police are also guilty for not investigating witness evidence thoroughly.  Dr T and Mrs T claim they contacted British police in the early days but it then took years to connect this with 'Tannerman' and when it was connected it was done through the creche records. 

As I've said previously if my theory/suspect(s) are correct it will reflect very badly on British police.

Cite please for "Dr T and Mrs T claim they contacted British police in the early days"  The information as I understand it is ...

"Dr Totman matches the physical description of the man and also wore the same clothes.

He was quizzed by the Guarda Nacional Republicana soon after Madeleine, three, vanished.

His wife Rachel told The Sun: "My husband had told the local police it could be him but we didn’t hear anything for years."
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-detectives-spent-four-12495545

[Brietta]

I'm sorry I don't understand the first sentence? 

But we can see the British police are also guilty for not investigating witness evidence thoroughly.  Dr T and Mrs T claim they contacted British police in the early days but it then took years to connect this with 'Tannerman' and when it was connected it was done through the creche records. 

As I've said previously if my theory/suspect(s) are correct it will reflect very badly on British police.

That's OK as I don't understand yours either.  To me BO refers to body odour.

[Holly Goodhead]

Cite please for "Dr T and Mrs T claim they contacted British police in the early days"  The information as I understand it is ...

"Dr Totman matches the physical description of the man and also wore the same clothes.

He was quizzed by the Guarda Nacional Republicana soon after Madeleine, three, vanished.

His wife Rachel told The Sun: "My husband had told the local police it could be him but we didn’t hear anything for years."
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-detectives-spent-four-12495545

I posted a cite above.

I'm not aware of GNR quizzing any holidaymakers other than T9?  Most departed on Sat 5th.  When did Dr T depart?

Does local police mean local in Portugal or local when arriving home in England?

[G-Unit]

I posted a cite above.

I'm not aware of GNR quizzing any holidaymakers other than T9?  Most departed on Sat 5th.  When did Dr T depart?

Does local police mean local in Portugal or local when arriving home in England?

As far as I can ascertain, the Totman's were booked to stay until 12th May. During that time the PJ set up an office in Block 6 where people could go with information. The GNR were aware of it and would have directed people there if they were approached. In addition the McCann's were moved into block 4 where the Totmans were staying, so they could have approached them or their friends and relatives. If all else failed they could have raised their problem with the MW management, rung the British Consulate or even told the British reporters.

[Holly Goodhead]

Hi Holly,

Had you been to PdL, you would understand why the women in particular would not likely check by the back alleyway route.   

From memory, I am fairly confident that there was no lighting along the alleyway.  So it would be intimidating to leave a lit roadway to go into the darkness.  No moon remember at the times they were checking on May 3rd.  Going away from the apartments would be a little better because one would be going towards the light.

Not nice tho for it to be very dark behind you, either, as you walked back along the alleyway towards the restaurant.


I think this was the main reason that The Tapas group apart from The Mccanns, seemed to prefer the longer route

But they all said they felt safe hence they left the children alone every night unsupervised and in the case of the McCanns left the patio door unlocked so I'm not sure they would fear walking a few steps along the alley?

[Robittybob1]

That's OK as I don't understand yours either.  To me BO refers to body odour.

It is one of those unfortunate initials but BO I figured was Bridget O'Donnell.

[Miss Taken Identity]

As far as I can ascertain, the Totman's were booked to stay until 12th May. During that time the PJ set up an office in Block 6 where people could go with information. The GNR were aware of it and would have directed people there if they were approached. In addition the McCann's were moved into block 4 where the Totmans were staying, so they could have approached them or their friends and relatives. If all else failed they could have raised their problem with the MW management, rung the British Consulate or even told the British reporters.

"If all else failed they could have raised their problem with the MW management, rung the British Consulate or even told the British reporters.

However, that would have had an adverse affect on their  theory about Jane seeing the abductor fleeing with Maddie.

The PJ would have done nothing if Dr T  did say it was him- what would they do, apart from dismiss the abductor theory which they did!