So what actual searching was there?

[misty]

That area just N of the Millennium and S of Quinta da Bela Vista does appear to be Urbanização Ramalhete, and it has got the correct post code.

That is one area of Luz that I have never trekked over, as there is nothing commercial on it.

Lote 7 is a large villa, but it is advertised on-line as consisting of one-bedroom apartments for 35€ a night, so it looks like it competes with Salty Jacks and the Mirage apartments.

The Millennium and the Mirage are different establishments, both of which existed in Madeleine's day and both of which feature prominently in the file.

The Mirage + Mirage apartments are up for sale now, so if anyone wants to waste an eye watering sum of money (the owner wants silly money for something that is losing cash now), please let me know.

As to Casa H.... hmmm.

Thanks for that, Shining.
This was the reason for my interest in the precise location of the property is the witness a)returned home in a vehicle at 9.30pm & b)heard the commotion outside his house at 11pm.
Would his return journey from Alvor have taken him north of 5a?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOSE-NOVO.htm

[John]

The Millennium and the Mirage are different establishments, both of which existed in Madeleine's day and both of which feature prominently in the file.

Thank you for clarifying that ShiningInLuz, apparently the restaurants are next door to each other thus the confusion.

This map show the layout rather well with No 3 being the Millennium Restaurant with the Mirage Restaurant being just below it on the corner.



https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@37.0920154,-8.7280804,149m/data=!3m1!1e3

[Alice Purjorick]

As you don't seem to like engaging in discussion or being asked to clarify the statements you make on this forum,  there seems little point interacting with you any further.

What's to clarify?
It seems plain enough to me. Tell me where it isn't?
Death in absentia
A person may be legally declared dead (declared death in absentia or legal presumption of death) despite the absence of direct proof of the person's death, such as the finding of remains (e.g., a corpse or skeleton) attributable to that person. Such a declaration is typically made when a person has been missing for an extended period of time and in the absence of any evidence that the person is still alive
That's clear enough I think.
According to the files the McCanns were not as cooperative with the police as they might have been check it out. Indeed the faithful on here hold that up as somekind of virtue.
If you don't wish to interact anymore that's fine by me.

[Alfred R Jones]

What's to clarify?
It seems plain enough to me. Tell me where it isn't?
Death in absentia
A person may be legally declared dead (declared death in absentia or legal presumption of death) despite the absence of direct proof of the person's death, such as the finding of remains (e.g., a corpse or skeleton) attributable to that person. Such a declaration is typically made when a person has been missing for an extended period of time and in the absence of any evidence that the person is still alive
That's clear enough I think.
According to the files the McCanns were not as cooperative with the police as they might have been check it out. Indeed the faithful on here hold that up as somekind of virtue.
If you don't wish to interact anymore that's fine by me.

I know what death in absentia means, I didn't ask for clarification on its meaning.  I wrote: "You didn't really say why you would do it (apply for death in absentia), only that it was the pragmatic thing to do.  How does a child being legally declared dead help you in any way, unless it is to help you draw a line under it and move on?  Is that what you mean?" - this (obviously) was the point I was asking for clarity on, but you don't wish to give it - your prerogative.

As far as I am concerned, having read the files, the McCanns were as cooperative as it was possible for them to be during the 120+ days they were in Portugal, right up to the time when it became apparent that the police were trying to build a case against them, and the one occasion when Kate refused to answer the questions put to her afer being made arguido. So - pretty  much for the entire duration of their stay in Portugal they were co-operating.  They even allowed a pair of dogs to trample and slobber all over their possessions, I mean how much more co-operative could they have been?  But, in their position you would have been waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more co-operative of course!

[Mr Gray]

1 Provided you discount hiring PI's early doors which could be counterproductive to the police investigation and not being particularly cooperative with the local police.
2 It would be the most pragmatic thing to do in my book.

as has been pointed out it aint your book and IMO in the circumstances seems a ridiculous idea

[pegasus]

I know what death in absentia means, I didn't ask for clarification on its meaning.  I wrote: "You didn't really say why you would do it (apply for death in absentia), only that it was the pragmatic thing to do.  How does a child being legally declared dead help you in any way, unless it is to help you draw a line under it and move on?  Is that what you mean?" - this (obviously) was the point I was asking for clarity on, but you don't wish to give it - your prerogative.

As far as I am concerned, having read the files, the McCanns were as cooperative as it was possible for them to be during the 120+ days they were in Portugal, right up to the time when it became apparent that the police were trying to build a case against them, and the one occasion when Kate refused to answer the questions put to her afer being made arguido. So - pretty  much for the entire duration of their stay in Portugal they were co-operating.  They even allowed a pair of dogs to trample and slobber all over their possessions, I mean how much more co-operative could they have been?  But, in their position you would have been waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more co-operative of course!

They had no choice but to allow Eddie into their rental villa and to allow clothes to be taken for inspection - there was a search warrant - issued by Judge Pedro Frias earlier that same day 2nd August 2007
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P8/08_VOLUME_VIIIa_Page_2085.jpg
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P8/08_VOLUME_VIIIa_Page_2086.jpg

[ShiningInLuz]

Thanks for that, Shining.
This was the reason for my interest in the precise location of the property is the witness a)returned home in a vehicle at 9.30pm & b)heard the commotion outside his house at 11pm.
Would his return journey from Alvor have taken him north of 5a?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOSE-NOVO.htm

Alvor is well to the east of Luz.  It seems there is a BUPA hospital there.  Whatever.

So from east of Luz, to Lagos, then entering the town.  That would have been by the old road from the east, hit the entrance to Luz, and turn north.

That makes his journey east and north-east of 5A.  It's about 500m at closest.  If they were checking out there at 11pm, they were giving it a jolly good go.

[Alice Purjorick]

as has been pointed out it aint your book and IMO in the circumstances seems a ridiculous idea

I think you have the wrong context old stick.

[Alice Purjorick]

I know what death in absentia means, I didn't ask for clarification on its meaning.  I wrote: "You didn't really say why you would do it (apply for death in absentia), only that it was the pragmatic thing to do.  How does a child being legally declared dead help you in any way, unless it is to help you draw a line under it and move on?  Is that what you mean?" - this (obviously) was the point I was asking for clarity on, but you don't wish to give it - your prerogative.

As far as I am concerned, having read the files, the McCanns were as cooperative as it was possible for them to be during the 120+ days they were in Portugal, right up to the time when it became apparent that the police were trying to build a case against them, and the one occasion when Kate refused to answer the questions put to her afer being made arguido. So - pretty  much for the entire duration of their stay in Portugal they were co-operating.  They even allowed a pair of dogs to trample and slobber all over their possessions, I mean how much more co-operative could they have been?  But, in their position you would have been waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more co-operative of course!

You clearly didn't, neither did Eleanor.
You both posted:
"You would have your own missing child declared dead in the absence of any evidence that she actually is?"

Death in absentia works on there being no evidence the person is alive.

[Alfred R Jones]

You clearly didn't, neither did Eleanor.
You both posted:
"You would have your own missing child declared dead in the absence of any evidence that she actually is?"

Death in absentia works on there being no evidence the person is alive.

From your own quote: "Death in absentia
A person may be legally declared dead (declared death in absentia or legal presumption of death) despite the absence of direct proof of the person's death..."
How does this differ from what Eleanor wrote: "You would have your own missing child declared dead in the absence of any evidence that she actually is?"

Nice swerve of the points in my post to nit-pick over nothing at all.  You are wasting my time.  Goodbye.

[G-Unit]

Alvor is well to the east of Luz.  It seems there is a BUPA hospital there.  Whatever.

So from east of Luz, to Lagos, then entering the town.  That would have been by the old road from the east, hit the entrance to Luz, and turn north.

That makes his journey east and north-east of 5A.  It's about 500m at closest.  If they were checking out there at 11pm, they were giving it a jolly good go.

Is that a long way? I've seen the main reception quoted as being 500m from G5A?

However, Joao Carlos Silva Batista said he and his wife received a telephone call at 10.30pm and arrived at the Ocean Club at 11pm. We know his wife (Silvia) arrived just before the GNR, so that seems about right. He doesn't mention being up near the Millenium area in his statement, but he must have dropped Silvia off and either driven or walked straight up to that area if he was seen there at 11pm.

That he immediately left for the OC where he arrived at about 23.00 and immediately began to search the resort and the beach area, searching in all the places where the child might be.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAO_BATISTA.htm

[slartibartfast]

1. RTFF.
2 I said what I would do and why. What you the McCanns and the forum's Magrat, Esme & Gytha do and think ain't exactly relevant to what I would do or think.

How about Greebo....

[ShiningInLuz]

Is that a long way? I've seen the main reception quoted as being 500m from G5A?

However, Joao Carlos Silva Batista said he and his wife received a telephone call at 10.30pm and arrived at the Ocean Club at 11pm. We know his wife (Silvia) arrived just before the GNR, so that seems about right. He doesn't mention being up near the Millenium area in his statement, but he must have dropped Silvia off and either driven or walked straight up to that area if he was seen there at 11pm.

That he immediately left for the OC where he arrived at about 23.00 and immediately began to search the resort and the beach area, searching in all the places where the child might be.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAO_BATISTA.htm

Nothing in Luz is far away, because Luz is not large.

5A to OC 24 = 260m, by Gerry's short route.  Heading straight down Martins turn left onto Teixera, left onto Direita will be a fair bit longer.

OC24 to Millenium = 460m.

5A to Millennium = 580m.

Millennium to vaguely within Urbanizção Ramalhete is somewhere around 250m.

A normal walking speed of 4mph converts very closely to 100m/minute.

Journeys by car get more complicated.  The bits of Luz that were being dug up at the time were enough to give Luz's 1-way system a heart attack, therefore diversions were required.  I know from a contemporaneous site that diversions were indeed in place.  What I don't know is what those diversions were.

I have seen somewhere on this forum a photo of Rua Direita with traffic heading the 'wrong' way i.e. E to W.  What I don't know is whether Direita was 2-way for a while, or simply reversed.

Whatever the situation, the OC and the Millennium must have been a very few minutes away at most by car.

(All distances from Google Earth, following pedestrian/car routes i.e. NOT as the crow flies.)

The nearest the route back from Alvor to Urb Ramalhete was to 5A should have been the corner where the Mirage is situated, hence a bit closer than the Millennium.

[Alice Purjorick]

From your own quote: "Death in absentia
A person may be legally declared dead (declared death in absentia or legal presumption of death) despite the absence of direct proof of the person's death..."
How does this differ from what Eleanor wrote: "You would have your own missing child declared dead in the absence of any evidence that she actually is?"

Nice swerve of the points in my post to nit-pick over nothing at all.  You are wasting my time.  Goodbye.

You could always take your own advice and answer questions posed to you by other posters including me instead of ignoring them.

[Alice Purjorick]

How about Greebo....

Haven't seen him for days!