So what actual searching was there?

[pegasus]

Apartment 5A is not a stately mansion complete with attics, cellars, priest holes and secret passages.

It is a small two bed flat.

Where do you suppose Madeleine was secreted within if you feel it was not adequately searched?

I'm not writing a theory I'm just noting places in the apartment that were not searched that night according to the statements. For a start, none of the 5 people who searched the apartment that night mention pulling out the sofa to look behind it, yet it looks like it had been pulled out then pushed back all the way to the wall. That's just one place, there are more Brietta.

[Brietta]

I'm not writing a theory I'm just noting places in the apartment that were not searched that night according to the statements. For a start, none of the 5 people who searched the apartment that night mention pulling out the sofa to look behind it, yet it looks like it had been pulled out then pushed back all the way to the wall. That's just one place, there are more Brietta.

The curtain was disturbed and caught back suggestive of the sofa being pulled out and behind the curtain checked for what people hoped was a sleeping child.

People will have looked where it was possible for Madeleine to secrete herself.  Desperation will have made them look in places she could not possibly have accessed.

In the absence of properly recorded statements with the correct questions being asked ... we have no idea exactly what actions were performed.

However, I think it is risible to suggest the apartment was not thoroughly searched.

Perhaps of more interest should be the open window suggestive of an intruder and why standard procedures for dealing with that eventuality were not immediately instituted.

[pegasus]

The curtain was disturbed and caught back suggestive of the sofa being pulled out and behind the curtain checked for what people hoped was a sleeping child...(snip)

Precisely Brietta I agree in the PJ photo it looks like someone pulled the sofa out then pushed it back
1. Why does no statement mention pulling the sofa out to search behind it?
2. If someone did pull the sofa out to search behind it and found nothing, why then push it back?

[pegasus]

If anyone did search in the top cupboards, why did they then close the doors afterwards?
And people claim the whole apartment was searched?

[Brietta]

Precisely Brietta I agree in the PJ photo it looks like someone pulled the sofa out then pushed it back
1. Why does no statement mention pulling the sofa out to search behind it?
2. If someone did pull the sofa out to search behind it and found nothing, why then push it back?

Why not?

Exactly as ... why not close wardrobe doors after opening them?

But why ignore a possible intrusion into the apartment when it was apparent Madeleine was nowhere to be found?

[pegasus]

Why not?

Exactly as ... why not close wardrobe doors after opening them?

But why ignore a possible intrusion into the apartment when it was apparent Madeleine was nowhere to be found?

The top cupboard doors would not be any nuisance if left open. But I see four shut top cupboard doors in a PJ photo that night. That means that either no-one opened those top cupboard doors that night to search inside (which would prove beyond doubt that the search of the apartment was incomplete), or that someone did open them to search inside but then (despite being in the middle of a panicked urgent search) closed them again to maintain tidiness or something like that.

[pegasus]

(snip)... But why ignore a possible intrusion into the apartment when it was apparent Madeleine was nowhere to be found?

I am certainly not ignoring the fact that an intending intruder opened the window and shutter Brietta - I've already said that is the reason the child left the childrens room and went to another room - wouldn't you? That's exactly why I'm interested in the incomplete search of the other rooms.

[mercury]

If anyone did search in the top cupboards, why did they then close the doors afterwards?
And people claim the whole apartment was searched?

Not sure what youre getting at here

- that Madeleine somehow managed to get into a top cupboard? How?
- that an intruder put her there? Why?

....??

[pegasus]

Is it possible that from day 1 to today, for 8 and a half years, the GNR, the Amaral PJ, the Rebelo PJ, the Redwood SY, the current PJ, and the current SY, (and all forum peeps and PIs), have all set themselves the wrong problem to solve?

[Brietta]

The top cupboard doors would not be any nuisance if left open. But I see four shut top cupboard doors in a PJ photo that night. That means that either no-one opened those top cupboard doors that night to search inside (which would prove beyond doubt that the search of the apartment was incomplete), or that someone did open them to search inside but then (despite being in the middle of a panicked urgent search) closed them again to maintain tidiness or something like that.

IMO it would be a normal action if opening a door to rummage in clothes or spare bedding while looking for a missing child ... to close the door before progressing the search.
In the absence of detailed statements or police notebooks ... all is speculation and I am not quite sure exactly why you are labouring it.

[pegasus]

Not sure what youre getting at here

- that Madeleine somehow managed to get into a top cupboard? How?
- that an intruder put her there? Why?

....??

Theories and assumptions have no place in a complete search Mercury.

[mercury]

Theories and assumptions have no place in a complete search Mercury.

I understand where you are coming from, I remember you posting about the police not searchng the loft properly after dogs alerted in the Tia Sharpe case....IIRC...now that WAS a bit remiss to say the least...but I cant join the dots here of why it mattered in this case that they didnt search every cm properly

[Brietta]

I am certainly not ignoring the fact that an intending intruder opened the window and shutter Brietta - I've already said that is the reason the child left the childrens room and went to another room - wouldn't you? That's exactly why I'm interested in the incomplete search of the other rooms.

Where we part company on this one is that in my opinion there was an intrusion into the apartment.  It is also my opinion ... based on protocols which should be enacted when a child goes missing ... that the search should have been widened as soon as possible when Madeleine could not be found.

It doesn't matter how often with how many you search an apartment ... if the object of your search is not there ... you will not find it.
Madeleine McCann was not in the apartment or she would have been found.  I believe that by the time the GNR were on the scene she was secreted elsewhere or well on the way out of Luz.

[pegasus]

IMO it would be a normal action if opening a door to rummage in clothes or spare bedding while looking for a missing child ... to close the door before progressing the search.
In the absence of detailed statements or police notebooks ... all is speculation and I am not quite sure exactly why you are labouring it.

IMO in an urgent search it's pointless to close cupboard doors.

[Brietta]

IMO in an urgent search it's pointless to close cupboard doors.

It is a case of practicality and instinct ... or even someone coming behind and closing the doors.  We simply cannot know the exact circumstances within the apartment and the crime scene photographs depict a wardrobe door ajar.