So what actual searching was there?

[Angelo222]

The point is Alfred,  they have no argument at all the McCann's did what all parents of a missing child do they searched then waited for the police,  the police then take over.

All this business of they should have kept searching is ridiculous,   it was a foreign country for one,  they searched where Madeleine was known to have been that week,  there were hundreds of other people searching, who wants the parents of a missing child,  running around like headless chickens screaming and crying trying to find their child who could be dead?

The police organise searches which they did,  which is the normal procedure.

When SY eventually give up as I wholly expect them to do it will be interesting to see what sort of private search is planned using resources set aside from the Fund.  Are we in for a repeat of the Metodo 3 and Oakley follies?

[Benice]

That looks good but equally it could be a wild goose chase if they are involved. Take the attention away from them about leaving their young kids in an unsecured apartment.

Madeleine’s Eye Holds Vital Clue
Updated: 18:00, Saturday May 12, 2007

Madeleine McCann’s family believe a new picture of the missing four-year-old could play a vital role in the search for her.

The photo of the youngster shows clearly the her distinctive right eye, where the pupil runs into the blue-green iris.



Gerry says, the iris “is Madeleine’s only true distinctive feature. Certainly we thought it was possible that this could potentially hurt her or”—he grimaces—“her abductor might do something to her eye.… But in terms of marketing, it was a good ploy.”

The advice given by the experts is to do exactly that  i.e. market them by advertising them so that as many people as possible will know about them.    It was with this in mind that in the USA they used milk cartons to advertise their missing children's faces - knowing that cartons of milk  would reach millions of people every day.  IIRC it was discontinued because some people didn't want to think about missing chidren over their breakfast.

(From memory).

[ShiningInLuz]

Why didn't Amaral when informed that Madeleine hadn't been found, knowing the window was open in her bedroom,  immediately have road blocks,   police at air ports,  ferries.   He's the one who didn't bother,   do the police in Portugal just forget a child is missing after the initial search?

People criticise the McCann's yet they were left alone after the Police left,  see you tomorrow they said.   How about getting on to the person in charge,  saying,  we haven't found the child,  the window was open in her bedroom the parents think she could have been abducted,  shall we put road blocks out,  man the airports etc.?   No,   lets go to bed and think about things tomorrow.

Unless I've missed it, we don't know when Amaral knew the window was open.

By the time the PJ arrived at 5A, a car could have been in Spain or in Lisbon. A boat could have set sail from Lagos, Portimão, or several other Algarve ports.

If this was a planned abduction, the abductor was long gone.

If it was a botched robbery plus abduction, by the time the PJ arrived, it was too late to seal Luz.  In fact by the time the first phone call was made to the GNR it was too late to seal Luz.  Should you wish to contend this, I'll be happy to demonstrate why it is nigh-well impossible to seal Luz with less than hundreds of officers.

To criticise the PJ on this, you need to come up with a UK equivalent where it has happened, preferably but not necessarily around 2007.

The nearest I am aware of was the fairly recent case where a young child was reported missing from his home in Edinburgh.  The UK police sealed off nothing.  And I don't think the presence or absence of an open window comes into it.

Kate says in her book she went out searching at first light.  I have never been interested in this aspect, but 4am does not strike me as the right time for first light.

She says no-one else was searching.  Again without digging into this, I thought a number of GNR officers were.

While the MW search was called off around 4pm, it is a tad rich to say the staff etc had searched until then, whilst the T9 did very little, and then moan about the lack of bodies at first light.  The McCanns went to bed whilst GNR and MW searched.

[Lace]

There was no evidence of abduction.

The parents in any case such as this would be investigated.

Get real Lace.

What evidence do you want a signed photograph of the abductor?     Thank god you are not a detective.

I'm not saying the parents wouldn't be investigated,  but they should have been investigated Amaral said he suspected the McCann's from the beginning,  yet he investigated the sightings,  he didn't suggest the dogs came in either.    It was only when the dogs came in he decided to suspect the McCann's and made his theory fit.

[xtina]

Are YOU for real,  you think they WANTED to lose her do you?

Yes they left her they shouldn't have,  they made a massive wrong decision,  but that does not mean they did not love her.

There was no INTENT as the final statement said,  they did not go out to cause Madeleine danger,  they did not want Madeleine to come to harm.   Is that clear enough for you?

Whether or not anyone saw them searching in that hour doesn't mean they didn't they said they did the friends looked after the twins so they could search,  so ask the friends,  I don't see why the friends would lie.

Your last sentence is really silly,  they DID search.

If they had wanted to put on a big show to make out they were searching for a child they knew was dead then they would have,  instead they did what all normal parents do,  they searched the area where they thought Madeleine would have gone,  they waited for the police.   They went out again in the early morning,  then waited for the police,  after all it was the police who could do a proper search for Madeleine it was important that the information was given to the police.

after all it was the police who could do a proper search for Madeleine it was important that the information was given to the police

yes ....so what happened here then ,,,,

Are you aware of the fact that by not answering these questions you may compromise the investigation, which is trying to find out what happened to your daughter? She said “yes, if the investigation thinks so.”

why should they be believed ....when there is never anything nothing to back them up,,,,,,

they said ....maddie was abducted .....they said they serched.....

personally if they called me by name..... i would go check my birth certificate

[Angelo222]

You have a cite for that ?

The mccanns had time for irrelevant foreign trips, meeting 'celebrities',  jogging, setting up a fund, PR, etc.

Did the Paynes do all that ?

...or the Needhams for that matter. They have searched extensively on the island where Ben disappeared with little help from anyone. 

[Lace]

Unless I've missed it, we don't know when Amaral knew the window was open.

By the time the PJ arrived at 5A, a car could have been in Spain or in Lisbon. A boat could have set sail from Lagos, Portimão, or several other Algarve ports.

If this was a planned abduction, the abductor was long gone.

If it was a botched robbery plus abduction, by the time the PJ arrived, it was too late to seal Luz.  In fact by the time the first phone call was made to the GNR it was too late to seal Luz.  Should you wish to contend this, I'll be happy to demonstrate why it is nigh-well impossible to seal Luz with less than hundreds of officers.

To criticise the PJ on this, you need to come up with a UK equivalent where it has happened, preferably but not necessarily around 2007.

The nearest I am aware of was the fairly recent case where a young child was reported missing from his home in Edinburgh.  The UK police sealed off nothing.  And I don't think the presence or absence of an open window comes into it.

Kate says in her book she went out searching at first light.  I have never been interested in this aspect, but 4am does not strike me as the right time for first light.

She says no-one else was searching.  Again without digging into this, I thought a number of GNR officers were.

While the MW search was called off around 4pm, it is a tad rich to say the staff etc had searched until then, whilst the T9 did very little, and then moan about the lack of bodies at first light.  The McCanns went to bed whilst GNR and MW searched.

The thing is no one knew where Madeleine was,   she could have been anywhere,  being kept somewhere before taken abroad,  who knows.   To say she could have been whisked away straight away is only a guess,  the road blocks etc. should have been set up as a matter or precaution.

I don't think they got up to search at 4 in the morning,  Kate said at dawn.   They only slept for an hour,  Kate said she didn't sleep at all, but Gerry insisted they rested.

[Lace]

...or the Needhams for that matter. They have searched extensively on the island where Ben disappeared with little help from anyone.

Kerry searched where she thought Ben would have strayed,  when they did a reconstruction with Ben's sisters little girl, they were amazed how much further she toddled,  if they had known that they would have searched further.

You are talking about Kerry investigating sightings when you say she searched the island,  she didn't search the island when Ben first disappeared,  she searched where he may have wandered.  I've read her book.

[xtina]

No they were not - but that didn't stop one of them being adbucted did it?

no it didn't ......but there were clues ...evidence ....Sarah was in the wrong place at the wrong time .....

not trapped .abandoned..and left for the taking ......

it astounds me the amount of defence that is given for the mccs and derailing ....from a single comment of not believing them ....or believe they searched ....as to them there was no point

thread title.....Re: So what actual searching was there?,,,,by the mccs none ...end of

[Lace]

after all it was the police who could do a proper search for Madeleine it was important that the information was given to the police

yes ....so what happened here then ,,,,

Are you aware of the fact that by not answering these questions you may compromise the investigation, which is trying to find out what happened to your daughter? She said “yes, if the investigation thinks so.”

why should they be believed ....when there is never anything nothing to back them up,,,,,,

they said ....maddie was abducted .....they said they serched.....

personally if they called me by name..... i would go check my birth certificate

What are you talking about?

You are talking about questions the police asked when they were accusing Kate of having something to do with Madeleine's disappearance.    Of course she didn't answer the questions,  her lawyer advised her not to,  they were trying to twist what she said in order to accuse her of something.   The lawyer knew what they were going to do and warned Kate before hand.

What I said was the McCann's went to the station on the 4th of May, in order for the police to get statements to what had happened so that they had a clear picture of the time up to when Madeleine went missing,  it has nothing at all to do with the questions Kate refused to answer.

[pathfinder73]

What evidence do you want a signed photograph of the abductor?     Thank god you are not a detective.

I'm not saying the parents wouldn't be investigated,  but they should have been investigated Amaral said he suspected the McCann's from the beginning,  yet he investigated the sightings,  he didn't suggest the dogs came in either.    It was only when the dogs came in he decided to suspect the McCann's and made his theory fit.

They used British dogs that changed the case. He was removed before bringing the eye witnesses back to Portugal. That is all evidence that needs to be proved or not. Both the Portuguese and British detectives have been working on this together since the start.

[Lace]

no it didn't ......but there were clues ...evidence ....Sarah was in the wrong place at the wrong time .....

not trapped .abandoned..and left for the taking ......

it astounds me the amount of defence that is given for the mccs and derailing ....from a single comment of not believing them ....or believe they searched ....as to them there was no point

thread title.....Re: So what actual searching was there?,,,,by the mccs none ...end of

Yes,  thank god Sarah's brother saw that white van or there wouldn't have been any evidence and who knows what the Payne's may have been accused of by people who knew nothing.

[ShiningInLuz]

The thing is no one knew where Madeleine was,   she could have been anywhere,  being kept somewhere before taken abroad,  who knows.   To say she could have been whisked away straight away is only a guess,  the road blocks etc. should have been set up as a matter or precaution.

I don't think they got up to search at 4 in the morning,  Kate said at dawn.   They only slept for an hour,  Kate said she didn't sleep at all, but Gerry insisted they rested.

Road blocks where?  Luz has main roads in/out and many minor ones.  Trying to road block Luz requires a lot of cars and officers.

Wider road blocks?  Where?  Just the Algarve or across every main road in Portugal?

Airports.  Why?  Did the abductor come with a fake passport ready set up to look like Madeleine?  That level of abductor definitely would have been in Spain, Lisbon, or out by boat, not dumb enough to try to get a child through an airport on a dodgy passport or worse, without one.

Count the number of ports just on the Algarve.  Any idea how many officers would be required?

To the ferries, or is it just ferry?  Still the passport problem.

Searched where Madeleine had gone?  Don't think so.  The Tapas area was not open at that time.  If they went to the Millennium (hmm at first light??, and the Millennium was open, no one from there remarked that the McCanns had popped in and searched.  Now we KNOW that the 24hr OC reception was open, and we KNOW that Madeleine's Club was in there, but the receptionist does not say the McCanns popped in to search.

Other than that, it boils down to a trip to the beach, and that is not mentioned in Kate's book.

As to the logic of the search, there is none.  Why go to places Madeleine had visited and look for a dead child (dumpster, undergrowth etc.)?  Was the idea that the abductor had seen her there, had decided to kill her, and was dumb enough to implicate himself by leaving the corpse near to where he had seen her?

[Lace]

Road blocks where?  Luz has main roads in/out and many minor ones.  Trying to road block Luz requires a lot of cars and officers.

Wider road blocks?  Where?  Just the Algarve or across every main road in Portugal?

Airports.  Why?  Did the abductor come with a fake passport ready set up to look like Madeleine?  That level of abductor definitely would have been in Spain, Lisbon, or out by boat, not dumb enough to try to get a child through an airport on a dodgy passport or worse, without one.

Count the number of ports just on the Algarve.  Any idea how many officers would be required?

To the ferries, or is it just ferry?  Still the passport problem.

Searched where Madeleine had gone?  Don't think so.  The Tapas area was not open at that time.  If they went to the Millennium (hmm at first light??, and the Millennium was open, no one from there remarked that the McCanns had popped in and searched.  Now we KNOW that the 24hr OC reception was open, and we KNOW that Madeleine's Club was in there, but the receptionist does not say the McCanns popped in to search.

Other than that, it boils down to a trip to the beach, and that is not mentioned in Kate's book.

As to the logic of the search, there is none.  Why go to places Madeleine had visited and look for a dead child (dumpster, undergrowth etc.)?  Was the idea that the abductor had seen her there, had decided to kill her, and was dumb enough to implicate himself by leaving the corpse near to where he had seen her?

Strange how they managed to do road blocks etc.   hours after the event though isn't it?   A child can get through an air port using a pass port with a baby photo on it,  who can say if the baby photo is Madeleine or not.  Why did they follow up sightings of people saying the saw her on a plane if they didn't think she could have been smuggled through?

Kate says in her book that she asked for Gerry and one of the friends to go and search the beach again.

The McCann's were told that if a Paedophile had snatched Madeleine,  they usually dump their victim after about an hour or so,  so yes she could have been dumped near to where she was abducted.

[Angelo222]

I have read Sara Payne's book and she said in there how long they searched for,   there was also a programme on not long ago about Sarah and Sara was on that too.



The irrelevant foreign trips were to raise awareness that Madeleine was missing,   the McCann's believed Madeleine to have been abducted,   they went to the countries where she could have been taken.

Jogging,   they had a very good 'expert'  arrive in Portugal who would have helped them deal with the anxiety and trauma caused through having a missing child,  jogging was something they could do to ease the anxiety,  just has some people go for walks etc.   maybe it's something you don't understand Stephen.

The fund was set up as there were so many people wanting to help them,   they had so much money pouring in they had to set something up into which they could safely put the money,   what else could they do with it?

It is more than likely she wasn't taken anywhere and remains in Portugal which was where the search should have been expanded instead of wild goose chases all over the world. One could be forgiven for thinking that all those attempts to shift the search away from the Algarve and Portugal were part of a strategy with sinister undertones.