So what actual searching was there?

[Mr Gray]

Any parent whose child was missing would be scouring the streets.

Any mother whose child was missing in these circumstances for a couple of hours... As you put it.... Would be in a very poor state.... As John posted most mothers in these cases need sedation...

[stephen25000]

It's only your opinion that their actions were callous, and of course you are entitled to it - just as those who don't find it callous at all are entitled to theirs.

Coral Jones said that letting her child play outside was something she had done hundreds of times before.

The difference between the three families is that in two cases the parents/grandparents were inside (whether they were eating or drinking we don't know)  - and their children were outside the house - but  in Madeleine's case she was inside fast asleep in bed while her parents were outside.

IMO it would be that last scenario which I would have assumed to be the safest place to be (i.e. inside) -  when it came to the possiblity of an approach by a stranger(s) with evil intent in mind.

Obviously it goes without saying that you will disagree.

'...but  in Madeleine's case she was inside fast asleep in bed while her parents were outside.'

They just weren't outside, they were elsewhere, occupied by drinking , eating and socializing. For 5 nights in a row.

There is no comparison at all.

[Brietta]

'...but  in Madeleine's case she was inside fast asleep in bed while her parents were outside.'

They just weren't outside, they were elsewhere, occupied by drinking , eating and socializing. For 5 nights in a row.

There is no comparison at all.

The thread has established that Madeleine McCann's parents did indeed physically search for her in the aftermath of the discovery of her disappearance.
This is in direct contravention of the rather bizarre propaganda put about over the past eight years that they did not.

This is just another tool in the box of the anti- McCann litany and causes me some bemusement at the mean and petty efforts to denigrate a couple who have probably instituted and maintained the biggest worldwide search for their missing child than any parent before or since.

Some time ago I asked for examples of other parents of missing children who had physically searched for them outwith the immediate aftermath of the disappearance.
No-one has been able to come up with an example and I believe that in an urban setting that is because there are none.  There are many valid reasons for this the main one being that it is against police advice.

The naked hatred directed at a couple who are paying dearly for any perceived lack of parenting skills would be amusing were it not so vile.

The person responsible for abducting Madeleine does not figure anywhere in the litany while the greatest opprobrium has been visited on the victims of the crime and every effort has and is being made to stop the investigation into what happened to the main victim.  Absolutely bizarre!

[Benice]

'...but  in Madeleine's case she was inside fast asleep in bed while her parents were outside.'

They just weren't outside, they were elsewhere, occupied by drinking , eating and socializing. For 5 nights in a row.

There is no comparison at all.

They were less than 60 seconds walk away.    In all three cases i.e. April Jones, Sandy Davidson and Madeleine,  were not being supervised and were out of sight of their parents when they disappeared.   Coral Jones has said that allowing April to play out was something she had done hundreds of times before - which is a lot more than on 5 occasions.

None of those parents had any reason to believe their children were in danger - and the fact that nothing had happened to them on previous occasions would reinforce their belief that their children were safe.  A fact also acknowledged by the Portuguese AG in the McCann case.

QUOTE
.
The parents didn't even represent the realisation of the fact, they trusted that everything would go well, as it had gone on the previous evenings, thus not equating, nor was it demanded from them, the possibility of the occurrence of an abduction of any of the children that were in their respective apartments.
Unquote

[stephen25000]

They were less than 60 seconds walk away.    In all three cases i.e. April Jones, Sandy Davidson and Madeleine,  were not being supervised and were out of sight of their parents when they disappeared.   Coral Jones has said that allowing April to play out was something she had done hundreds of times before - which is a lot more than on 5 occasions.

None of those parents had any reason to believe their children were in danger - and the fact that nothing had happened to them on previous occasions would reinforce their belief that their children were safe.  A fact also acknowledged by the Portuguese AG in the McCann case.

QUOTE
.
The parents didn't even represent the realisation of the fact, they trusted that everything would go well, as it had gone on the previous evenings, thus not equating, nor was it demanded from them, the possibility of the occurrence of an abduction of any of the children that were in their respective apartments.
Unquote

Are you living in the real world ?

They weren't in the back garden.

They were drinking, eating and talking......................

There were infrequent and unverified checks.

The children were in an unlocked apartment, that story had changed, in a foreign country and with a language they did not speak.

If you think those children were left safe and the mccanns displayed 'responsible parenting skills', then I truly despair of you.

[Lace]

Are you living in the real world ?

They weren't in the back garden.

They were drinking, eating and talking......................

There were infrequent and unverified checks.

The children were in an unlocked apartment, that story had changed, in a foreign country and with a language they did not speak.

If you think those children were left safe and the mccanns displayed 'responsible parenting skills', then I truly despair of you.

What Benice is trying to point out to you Stephen,   is that the McCann's did not want anything to happen to Madeleine,  they could not foresee that an abductor would take her.   They thought it was safe,  they made an error of judgement.

You are trying to turn this thread around to neglect,  because you have no argument as to how the McCann's behaved after they found Madeleine missing.   

You call part of the guide for parents of missing children 'Propaganda'   which is absolutely ridiculous,  it was part of a guide especially written for parents whose child has gone missing.   

You couldn't get your head around the fact that in that guide it points to everything which the McCann's had followed,   they tried to get some sleep,  to eat to exercise to keep themselves in shape to help the search for their daughter,  notice how the guide is not saying they should go out and search Stephen?

[Brietta]

Are you living in the real world ?

They weren't in the back garden.

They were drinking, eating and talking......................

There were infrequent and unverified checks.

The children were in an unlocked apartment, that story had changed, in a foreign country and with a language they did not speak.

If you think those children were left safe and the mccanns displayed 'responsible parenting skills', then I truly despair of you.

Someone took Madeleine McCann.

Remember her?  She is the wee girl you object to the expense of looking for.

Perhaps you should set aside your diatribe on the victims of the crime ... and give just a little thought to directing some of that opprobrium to where it belongs ... the perpetrator/s of the crime.

Madeleine's parents have never stopped looking for her.  There are those who have pulled every shabby trick in the book to obstruct them from doing so.

A bit of a mystery to me why they want to make innocent victims of crime suffer while ignoring totally the perpetrator/s of what Scotland Yard have described as a targeted abduction?

Obviously never heard of 'Victim Support' and care even less.

[stephen25000]

Someone took Madeleine McCann.

Remember her?  She is the wee girl you object to the expense of looking for.

Perhaps you should set aside your diatribe on the victims of the crime ... and give just a little thought to directing some of that opprobrium to where it belongs ... the perpetrator/s of the crime.

Madeleine's parents have never stopped looking for her.  There are those who have pulled every shabby trick in the book to obstruct them from doing so.

A bit of a mystery to me why they want to make innocent victims of crime suffer while ignoring totally the perpetrator/s of what Scotland Yard have described as a targeted abduction?

Obviously never heard of 'Victim Support' and care even less.

Your responses are becoming increasingly less than adequate.

Once again, the crime is unknown.

SY have not achieved anything, and if you think they have...........................

The mccanns did very little searching themselves, and that finished on the morning of the 4 th May 2007.

They employed directly, or indirectly, a series of incompetents, who would have great trouble organizing anything at a brewery.

NO ONE has stopped the mccanns 'searching'. That old chestnut is yet another myth perpetuated by people like you.

Time to get real brietta.

[Benice]

Are you living in the real world ?

They weren't in the back garden.

They were drinking, eating and talking......................

There were infrequent and unverified checks.

The children were in an unlocked apartment, that story had changed, in a foreign country and with a language they did not speak.

If you think those children were left safe and the mccanns displayed 'responsible parenting skills', then I truly despair of you.

I have never mentioned 'in the back garden'.  Kindly do not put words in my mouth.

You keep forgetting that it is only your opinion that the McCanns did not display responsible parenting skills. Thousands do not agree with you.

I notice you have studiously avoided all reference to the 'parenting skills' of Coral Jones for instance - who had allowed her 5 year old child to play out unsupervised 100's of times before.     Surely you must be appalled by such 'irresponsible' behaviour which resulted in her child being abducted.

What is your opinion of the fact that neither April Jones nor Sandy Davidson's parents searched for their missing children?  You must have an opinion - so what is it?

[stephen25000]

I have never mentioned 'in the back garden'.  Kindly do not put words in my mouth.

You keep forgetting that it is only your opinion that the McCanns did not display responsible parenting skills. Thousands do not agree with you.

I notice you have studiously avoided all reference to the 'parenting skills' of Coral Jones for instance - who had allowed her 5 year old child to play out unsupervised 100's of times before.     Surely you must be appalled by such 'irresponsible' behaviour which resulted in her child being abducted.

What is your opinion of the fact that neither April Jones nor Sandy Davidson's parents searched for their missing children?  You must have an opinion - so what is it?

The 'back garden' comes from the mccanns.

You say neither of those parents searched for their children. Can you cite the evidence for that.

If any of my children had gone missing, I would have been searching, and not just for a short duration.

Young children do need supervising, no doubt about it, and some people never learn as regards that. You can never be 100% safe, but what the mccanns did was no way near this margin.

[Lace]

Read Coral's book Stephen.   

You would NOT be out searching you would be going to the station to be interviewed by the police,  don't make out you would be this wonder man who would do what no other parent has done.

After the police took over they arranged extensive searches with dogs etc.  NO ONE expected the parents to be out among all that,  so please stop talking rubbish.

Since they have searched the only way available to them and that has been through sightings as they don't know where Madeleine is.

[G-Unit]

Searching began as soon as people realised a child was missing. .

David Payne, Russell O'Brien and Matthew Oldham searched intermittently from 10pm. They went as far as the Millenium and the beach.

Fiona Payne did a circuit of nearby roads. she searched the apartment.

Dianne Webster walked as far as the roadworks.

Kate McCann searched the apartment. She also went out of the front door of the apartment and looked in the main entrance of the block with Fiona Payne.

Gerald McCann searched the apartment. He may have looked around the tennis courts if he was correctly identified by a Tapas employee. He searched up the stairs of the block with Rachael O'Brien.

He went out with David Payne between 3am and 4am to look for her.

The Ocean Club and Mark Warner employees searched with local people from 10.30pm to 4.30am. They were joined by policemen and dogs during the night.

At 4.30am people went to bed. The searches resumed at 8am. Meanwhile the McCanns spent an hour out of the apartment searching. They were seen in the street at 7am.

Most of the time the parents concentrated on phoning and texting relatives, friends and the Consulate,

11.40pm to 12pm  gerald McCann called his brother, sister and the Kenndy's.
0.00.27 am Kate calls Sue and Brian Healy (128 seconds)
0.05.00 am Gerry calls Brian and Janet Kennedy (3 seconds)
0.05.45 am Gerry calls Trish Cameron (3 seconds)
0.06.15 am Gerry calls Brian and Janet Kennedy (2.47 minutes)
0.13.14 am Gerry calls Trish Cameron (3 seconds)
0.13.50 am Kate calls Sue and Brian Healy (407 seconds)
0.21.36 am Gerry calls Trish Cameron (23 seconds)
0.23.12 am Gerry calls .... (3.55 minutes)
0.27.07 am Trish Cameron calls Gerry (2.28 minutes)
0.29.37 am Angela Morado at UK Consulate calls Gerry (4.53 minutes)
1.02.08 am Aurélio Guerreiro calls Kate (2.23 minutes) to offer help, at the request of Pat Perkins. A man answers the phone.
1.16.11 am Gerry calls A. M. UK Consulate(1.57 minutes)
1.29.58 am Phil McCann calls Gerry (3.36 minutes)
0.36.21 am Kate calls ... (31 seconds)
0.37.05 am voicemail calls Kate (0 seconds) SMS
0.38.40 am ... calls Gerry (6.40 minutes)
0.39.58 am Kate calls voicemail (34 seconds)
0.40.50 am voicemail calls Kate (0 seconds) SMS
0.45.15 am Brian and Janet Kennedy call Gerry (1.18 minutes)
0.45.49 am Kate calls voicemail (31 seconds)
0.47.23 am Aurélio Guerreiro calls Kate (2.39 minutes) to offer help, at the request of Pat Perkins. A man answers the phone.
0.47.41 am Angela Morado at UK Consulate calls Gerry (2.15 minutes)
0.53.08 am ... calls Kate (0 seconds) SMS
0.-1.30am Kate calls Priest

The phone calls and texts continue solidly until 9.45am.

Parental searching around 2 hours.
Parental phoning and texting around 10 hours.

It makes sense to call relatives just in case the child is going to remain missing. I don't understand calling friends at this stage as the child could have been found at any moment.

[Brietta]

Your responses are becoming increasingly less than adequate.

Once again, the crime is unknown.

SY have not achieved anything, and if you think they have...........................

The mccanns did very little searching themselves, and that finished on the morning of the 4 th May 2007.

They employed directly, or indirectly, a series of incompetents, who would have great trouble organizing anything at a brewery.

NO ONE has stopped the mccanns 'searching'. That old chestnut is yet another myth perpetuated by people like you.

Time to get real brietta.

There is no problem at all responding to you.  You do follow such a limited and predictable script ... don't you think it might be an idea to update it a little.

For a crime which is "unknown" there has been a terrific amount of police time devoted to it with varying levels of expertise starting with the utterly incompetent and misguided.

It goes without saying that Madeleine's parents have mounted and sustained the most intensive search for a missing child ever known.  Not surprising that you are blind to that fact.  What is surprising is your lack of embarrassment in displaying your ignorance accompanied by your absolute contempt for posters in the aggressive personal tone you continually adopt in responses.
It doesn't really come into the realms of what is known as debate in polite circles ... more akin to 'stairheed' brawling in my opinion ...

As far as denial that people have assiduously worked to throw a spanner into the works of everything the Drs McCann have endeavoured to do on behalf of Madeleine and their search for her ... as you are well aware that has a long history.
The most recent petition seems to have died of embarrassment ... not surprising really ... what is surprising is the negativity which promulgates and promotes them.

[stephen25000]

There is no problem at all responding to you.  You do follow such a limited and predictable script ... don't you think it might be an idea to update it a little.

For a crime which is "unknown" there has been a terrific amount of police time devoted to it with varying levels of expertise starting with the utterly incompetent and misguided.

It goes without saying that Madeleine's parents have mounted and sustained the most intensive search for a missing child ever known.  Not surprising that you are blind to that fact.  What is surprising is your lack of embarrassment in displaying your ignorance accompanied by your absolute contempt for posters in the aggressive personal tone you continually adopt in responses.
It doesn't really come into the realms of what is known as debate in polite circles ... more akin to 'stairheed' brawling in my opinion ...

As far as denial that people have assiduously worked to throw a spanner into the works of everything the Drs McCann have endeavoured to do on behalf of Madeleine and their search for her ... as you are well aware that has a long history.
The most recent petition seems to have died of embarrassment ... not surprising really ... what is surprising is the negativity which promulgates and promotes them.

The formulaic script is yours, followed by you and the rest of your clique.

Don't bother either with that third paragraph either. The history of mccann supporters insulting the 'sceptics' is well known and you have used it on me. For example the use of the word 'adequate', which you said to me in reference to knowledge of one of the subjects I teach. You hide behind subtle use of snide remarks to other posters as well. So don't think it has gone unnoticed. However, like your fellows you go crying to the mods when you get a taste of your own medicine.

Meanwhile, in the real world, no one has stopped the mccanns searching. Not that I believed for one moment they have been seriously 'searching'.

[stephen25000]

Read Coral's book Stephen.   

You would NOT be out searching you would be going to the station to be interviewed by the police,  don't make out you would be this wonder man who would do what no other parent has done.

After the police took over they arranged extensive searches with dogs etc.  NO ONE expected the parents to be out among all that,  so please stop talking rubbish.

Since they have searched the only way available to them and that has been through sightings as they don't know where Madeleine is.

Who prevented the mccanns searching after seeing the police ?

Likewise,many other people were searching the area, not just the police, so your excuses don't wash.