Author Topic: So what actual searching was there?  (Read 411108 times)

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Offline Angelo222

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #1185 on: November 25, 2015, 02:15:50 PM »
Why would you describe SY solving the case as an 'evil' - to be avoided in favour of burying their heads in the sand?

If I am right then there are issues which SY are choosing to ignore in case they end up in the same boat as the PJ were seven years ago.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Angelo222

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #1186 on: November 25, 2015, 02:19:19 PM »
Then you are basically allowing for the possibility of conspiracy at a high level, unless I have misunderstood.

Not so much a conspiracy but an attempt to avoid an acute embarrassment when the truth of what really happened to Maddie is revealed.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #1187 on: November 25, 2015, 02:24:55 PM »
It isn't rocket science ferryman, no arrests, no claims to progress and a huge downsizing of Operation Grange only means one thing and that is a total and absolute failure.

You mean they aren't discussing the enquiry, just as they said they wouldn't do?

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #1188 on: November 25, 2015, 02:25:13 PM »
It might help to read the OG Remit and part of The Portuguese Archiving process in conjunction then explain convincingly  how one reconciles  "whole of the investigations" with only abduction when the PJ investigated more than abduction. Don't work any too well do it?

Op Grange Remit

The support and expertise proffered by the Commissioner will be provided by the Homicide & Serious Crime Command - SCD1. 

The activity, in the first instance, will be that of an ‘investigative review’.  This will entail a review of the whole of the investigation(s) which have been conducted in to the circumstances of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.

The focus of the review will be of the material held by three main stakeholders (and in the following order of primacy);

•   The Portuguese Law Enforcement agencies.
•   UK Law Enforcement agencies,
•   Other private investigative agencies/staff and organisations.

The investigative review is intended to collate, record and analyse what has gone before. 

It is to examine the case and seek to determine, (as if the abduction occurred in the UK) what additional, new investigative approaches we would take and which can assist the Portuguese authorities in progressing the matter. Whilst ordinarily a review has no investigative remit whatsoever- the scale and extent of this enquiry cannot permit for such an approach. It will take too long to progress to any “action stage” if activity is given wholly and solely to a review process.

The ‘investigative review’ will be conducted with transparency, openness and thoroughness.

The work will be overseen through the Gold Group management structure, which will also manage the central relationships with other key stakeholders and provide continuing oversight and direction to the investigative remit.

End

From PJ Archiving Document


The investigation, during more than 13 months, followed all the credible indices related to different hypotheses and, in an impartial manner, continued to analyse, correlate and synthesize them, looking for an explanation for the happenings of the night of 3 May 2007.

Assuming that the minor's disappearance was due to the acts of third parties, the PJ explored various lines of investigation, not excluding any hypothesis considered plausible or hypothetically acceptable.

From the documentation, you will observe that during the investigation various possibilities were contemplated.

As such, consider:

1. abduction, for sexual exploration or other (e.g, later adoption, child trafficking, organ trafficking), without homicide;

2. abduction, followed by homicide with (or without) hiding of the corpse;

3. accidental death, with later hiding of the corpse;

"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #1189 on: November 25, 2015, 02:39:13 PM »
Not so much a conspiracy but an attempt to avoid an acute embarrassment when the truth of what really happened to Maddie is revealed.
However you want to put it, you are talking about a cover up conspiracy on the part of those at the highest level.

Offline lordpookles

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #1190 on: November 25, 2015, 02:53:57 PM »
I'm sure we all know how weasley these politicians are after the huge amount of dirty PR and spin they have utilised over the years. If it was some kind of cover up, it could be said that the purpose of the review was simply to investigate abduction and nothing to the contrary was said if this is ever questioned.

However, I can't see any possible reason why they would not fully investigate all possibilities and to what benefits it would achieve by doing anything else but that. The government imo would not find it embarrassing if they revealed the truth and that was the McCann's were involved - it would be embarrassing for the McCanns, not the government and a long time in jail.

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #1191 on: November 25, 2015, 03:17:50 PM »
I'm sure we all know how weasley these politicians are after the huge amount of dirty PR and spin they have utilised over the years. If it was some kind of cover up, it could be said that the purpose of the review was simply to investigate abduction and nothing to the contrary was said if this is ever questioned.

However, I can't see any possible reason why they would not fully investigate all possibilities and to what benefits it would achieve by doing anything else but that. The government imo would not find it embarrassing if they revealed the truth and that was the McCann's were involved - it would be embarrassing for the McCanns, not the government and a long time in jail.
Quite right.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #1192 on: November 25, 2015, 03:59:35 PM »
I'm sure we all know how weasley these politicians are after the huge amount of dirty PR and spin they have utilised over the years. If it was some kind of cover up, it could be said that the purpose of the review was simply to investigate abduction and nothing to the contrary was said if this is ever questioned.

However, I can't see any possible reason why they would not fully investigate all possibilities and to what benefits it would achieve by doing anything else but that. The government imo would not find it embarrassing if they revealed the truth and that was the McCann's were involved - it would be embarrassing for the McCanns, not the government and a long time in jail.


Quite right.

Seconded.

Good post by Lord Pookles.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 04:04:13 PM by ferryman »

Offline Brietta

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #1193 on: November 25, 2015, 04:00:56 PM »
It might help to read the OG Remit and part of The Portuguese Archiving process in conjunction then explain convincingly  how one reconciles  "whole of the investigations" with only abduction when the PJ investigated more than abduction. Don't work any too well do it?

Op Grange Remit

The support and expertise proffered by the Commissioner will be provided by the Homicide & Serious Crime Command - SCD1. 

The activity, in the first instance, will be that of an ‘investigative review’.  This will entail a review of the whole of the investigation(s) which have been conducted in to the circumstances of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.

The focus of the review will be of the material held by three main stakeholders (and in the following order of primacy);

•   The Portuguese Law Enforcement agencies.
•   UK Law Enforcement agencies,
•   Other private investigative agencies/staff and organisations.

The investigative review is intended to collate, record and analyse what has gone before. 

It is to examine the case and seek to determine, (as if the abduction occurred in the UK) what additional, new investigative approaches we would take and which can assist the Portuguese authorities in progressing the matter. Whilst ordinarily a review has no investigative remit whatsoever- the scale and extent of this enquiry cannot permit for such an approach. It will take too long to progress to any “action stage” if activity is given wholly and solely to a review process.

The ‘investigative review’ will be conducted with transparency, openness and thoroughness.

The work will be overseen through the Gold Group management structure, which will also manage the central relationships with other key stakeholders and provide continuing oversight and direction to the investigative remit.

End

From PJ Archiving Document


The investigation, during more than 13 months, followed all the credible indices related to different hypotheses and, in an impartial manner, continued to analyse, correlate and synthesize them, looking for an explanation for the happenings of the night of 3 May 2007.

Assuming that the minor's disappearance was due to the acts of third parties, the PJ explored various lines of investigation, not excluding any hypothesis considered plausible or hypothetically acceptable.

From the documentation, you will observe that during the investigation various possibilities were contemplated.

As such, consider:

1. abduction, for sexual exploration or other (e.g, later adoption, child trafficking, organ trafficking), without homicide;

2. abduction, followed by homicide with (or without) hiding of the corpse;

3. accidental death, with later hiding of the corpse;



Viable options which were investigated as was appropriate at the time.  How on earth the initial investigation allowed itself to become bogged down in the 'accidental death, with later hiding of the corpse' thesis is one of the mysteries of Madeleine McCann's case.
There was not one shred of evidence to support pursuing it and only bizarre, convoluted scenarios as to how Madeleine's body was dealt with had to be invented, not one of which was remotely possible to keep the fantasy alive.

All attention appears to have been concentrated on Scotland Yard finding enough evidence to justify reopening the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance.

The Policia Judiciaria team from Porto carried out their own review and concluded there was evidence ... which under the terms of the archiving document ... had to be new evidence ... to enable Madeleine's case to be reopened.

It is insulting to both law enforcement bodies for anyone to suggest they bowed to outside influences in order to reach their professional conclusions that evidence was in existence which meant the case should properly be reopened.

One of the first issues which I am sure both reviewing teams would have gone over with a fine tooth comb is the Amaral theory of accidental death.

It is instructive that both SY and the PJ have been pursuing the stranger abduction theory.  Certainly tells me what they are looking for and the fact that neither is the least bit interested in 'nailing' Madeleine's parents despite knowing exactly where they are, should tell other folks something too.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #1194 on: November 25, 2015, 04:04:00 PM »
I'm sure we all know how weasley these politicians are after the huge amount of dirty PR and spin they have utilised over the years. If it was some kind of cover up, it could be said that the purpose of the review was simply to investigate abduction and nothing to the contrary was said if this is ever questioned.

However, I can't see any possible reason why they would not fully investigate all possibilities and to what benefits it would achieve by doing anything else but that. The government imo would not find it embarrassing if they revealed the truth and that was the McCann's were involved - it would be embarrassing for the McCanns, not the government and a long time in jail.

I agree with that well thought out post. Logical.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #1195 on: November 25, 2015, 04:09:33 PM »
Viable options which were investigated as was appropriate at the time.  How on earth the initial investigation allowed itself to become bogged down in the 'accidental death, with later hiding of the corpse' thesis is one of the mysteries of Madeleine McCann's case.
There was not one shred of evidence to support pursuing it and only bizarre, convoluted scenarios as to how Madeleine's body was dealt with had to be invented, not one of which was remotely possible to keep the fantasy alive.

All attention appears to have been concentrated on Scotland Yard finding enough evidence to justify reopening the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance.

The Policia Judiciaria team from Porto carried out their own review and concluded there was evidence ... which under the terms of the archiving document ... had to be new evidence ... to enable Madeleine's case to be reopened.

It is insulting to both law enforcement bodies for anyone to suggest they bowed to outside influences in order to reach their professional conclusions that evidence was in existence which meant the case should properly be reopened.

One of the first issues which I am sure both reviewing teams would have gone over with a fine tooth comb is the Amaral theory of accidental death.

It is instructive that both SY and the PJ have been pursuing the stranger abduction theory.  Certainly tells me what they are looking for and the fact that neither is the least bit interested in 'nailing' Madeleine's parents despite knowing exactly where they are, should tell other folks something too.

and they have found absolutely NOTHING.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #1196 on: November 25, 2015, 04:12:33 PM »
It isn't rocket science ferryman, no arrests, no claims to progress and a huge downsizing of Operation Grange only means one thing and that is a total and absolute failure.

The most reliable indicator of failure would be the pulling of the plug.

The plug hasn't been pulled.

Offline John

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #1197 on: November 25, 2015, 04:20:18 PM »
The most reliable indicator of failure would be the pulling of the plug.

The plug hasn't been pulled.

I thought they were given 6 months to conclude the investigation?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #1198 on: November 25, 2015, 04:30:44 PM »
I thought they were given 6 months to conclude the investigation?

no...some simply assumed that

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #1199 on: November 25, 2015, 04:38:01 PM »
Viable options which were investigated as was appropriate at the time.  How on earth the initial investigation allowed itself to become bogged down in the 'accidental death, with later hiding of the corpse' thesis is one of the mysteries of Madeleine McCann's case.
There was not one shred of evidence to support pursuing it and only bizarre, convoluted scenarios as to how Madeleine's body was dealt with had to be invented, not one of which was remotely possible to keep the fantasy alive.

All attention appears to have been concentrated on Scotland Yard finding enough evidence to justify reopening the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance.

The Policia Judiciaria team from Porto carried out their own review and concluded there was evidence ... which under the terms of the archiving document ... had to be new evidence ... to enable Madeleine's case to be reopened.

It is insulting to both law enforcement bodies for anyone to suggest they bowed to outside influences in order to reach their professional conclusions that evidence was in existence which meant the case should properly be reopened.

One of the first issues which I am sure both reviewing teams would have gone over with a fine tooth comb is the Amaral theory of accidental death.

It is instructive that both SY and the PJ have been pursuing the stranger abduction theory.  Certainly tells me what they are looking for and the fact that neither is the least bit interested in 'nailing' Madeleine's parents despite knowing exactly where they are, should tell other folks something too.


This is the salient point of the OG remit:
"This will entail a review of the whole of the investigation(s) which have been conducted in to the circumstances of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance".

Do you think then that having said that The Met then ignored it and chose not to investigate "the whole" but went off half cocked ?.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey