So what actual searching was there?

[mercury]

Yes, IMO the GNR were responding to the call from a security company at 22:29. It's in the files.

If the T9 had used one of their mobiles to phone 112 before 22.29 they would have got an english speaking operator and the GNR would have gone to PDL first, not Odiaxere. The whole police search would have started earlier and this could have made a crucial difference.

Not a single tapas 9 member rang 112 number  which would have been sent to their mobiiles when changing countries or 999 which would also have worked to get the  through to emergency


Neither did they ask any one in tapas bar to call...most english and portuguese speaking
.

[Brietta]

Yes, IMO the GNR were responding to the call from a security company at 22:29. It's in the files.

If the T9 had used one of their mobiles to phone 112 before 22.29 they would have got an english speaking operator and the GNR would have gone to PDL first, not Odiaxere. The whole police search would have started earlier and this could have made a crucial difference.

If Reception had made that call when they were initially alerted to Madeleine's disappearance ... that could have made the crucial difference to which you refer and perhaps an earlier start to the police search.

[mercury]

If Reception had made that call when they were initially alerted to Madeleine's disappearance ... that could have made the crucial difference to which you refer and perhaps an earlier start to the police search.

If the so called responsible parents hadnt left their three precious babies all alone to fend for themselves out  of sight and hearing....in an insecure apartment and also told total strangers they weere actually doing this, which is INSANE at best, they might still have their first born....the mccanns must have been the stupidest of parents ever...that YOU and ithers are blaming every tom dick and harry is ludicrous,,,,
they were reaponsible  for their kids, no one else....get over it

[Brietta]

If the so called responsible parents hadnt left their three precious babies all alone to fend for themselves out  of sight and hearing....in an insecure apartment and also told total strangers they weere actually doing this, which is INSANE at best, they might still have their first born....the mccanns must have been the stupidest of parents ever...that YOU and ithers are blaming every tom dick and harry is ludicrous,,,,
they were reaponsible  for their kids, no one else....get over it

I think you may find that the Drs McCann are on record as agreeing with some aspects of your post.  Which is entirely a matter for them as they are the people who are having to live with it every day of their lives.

Why there are people out there who have a mission to add to their burden ... is also entirely a matter for those people, the difference being that in their case ... they do not have to.

[mercury]

I think you may find that the Drs McCann are on record as agreeing with some aspects of your post.  Which is entirely a matter for them as they are the people who are having to live with it every day of their lives.

Why there are people out there who have a mission to add to their burden ... is also entirely a matter for those people, the difference being that in their case ... they do not have to.

I dont know if there are people whose MISSION is to add to their burden...you have to accept though that everything the mccanns say  in public is fair game  to reply to...tbh Brietta the mccanns have never done a very honest interview where people believed them, hell, the interviewers seemed not to , do you have an opinion in that? Or do you think we were all dna engneered to mistrust these two dodgy people lol

[mercury]

....

[pegasus]

If Reception had made that call when they were initially alerted to Madeleine's disappearance ... that could have made the crucial difference to which you refer and perhaps an earlier start to the police search.

Yes but the receptionist didn't know the full situation. The group did. If they had used one of their mobiles to call 112 from 5A at 2200 (free call, english-speaking operators) the GNR would have been at 5A by 2210 and the police search would have started a whole hour earlier and we might not be here now ...

[G-Unit]

If Reception had made that call when they were initially alerted to Madeleine's disappearance ... that could have made the crucial difference to which you refer and perhaps an earlier start to the police search.

So it's the Reception's fault now, is it? The receptionist who never mentioned Matthew Oldfield speaking to him? Matthew who seems to have been so weak and unsure of his facts that he was dismissed quite easily according to what he says;

but then it was a kind of, it was surreal when you got there, I said, you've got to phone the Police, you know, a child's been taken, and they went, oh no, she's probably just sort of woken up and he thought she's probably sort of wandered off or something like that and you thought, yeah, maybe you're right, maybe you're right, erm, can you please, it was sort of, it was kind of, it was sort a weird kind of lack of urgency, you know, he'd ring, but you had to sort and stand there and say, ring now, ring now, so I don't know if they rang at that point, but certainly, erm, you know, I certainly asked them to, about perhaps sort of maybe about ten past ten maybe. Erm, then we went back up to, or I went, because I was on my own,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

[pathfinder73]

Yes but the receptionist didn't know the full situation. The group did. If they had used one of their mobiles to call 112 from 5A at 2200 (free call, english-speaking operators) the GNR would have been at 5A by 2210 and the police search would have started a whole hour earlier and we might not be here now ...

But somebody may have been caught in the act if they came within 10 minutes.

[mercury]

The same Oldfield who went to check on Madeleine and not all the children (according to one of the statements) and didnt bother checking but wondered where she slept according to his wife and actually went into her parents bedroom to see if she was there but not into the kids bedroom


Insane

[Brietta]

Yes but the receptionist didn't know the full situation. The group did. If they had used one of their mobiles to call 112 from 5A at 2200 (free call, english-speaking operators) the GNR would have been at 5A by 2210 and the police search would have started a whole hour earlier and we might not be here now ...

You mean the significance of gangs of people searching and a missing child report and a request to call the police didn't impinge on his conciousness?  His statement gives an earlier time for his call than the phone records.
Either a different phone was used or he realised the error of his delay to call or it is something lost in translation.

Whatever ... it is a moment in time which never can be repeated or changed and those involved at the time did not have the benefit of hindsight enjoyed by us who pore over their every move confident that in their circumstance we would have done exactly the right thing.

[pegasus]

IMO out of all the dozens of GNR and PJ who were there that night and the next day,  only one of them actually searched the apartment and that an incomplete search.

Searching for the child means methodically looking in and under and behind every physical space without exception.

(Taking photos, dusting for prints on two openings, collecting hairs in selected parts of selected rooms, none of that counts as searching for the child).

[ShiningInLuz]

You mean the significance of gangs of people searching and a missing child report and a request to call the police didn't impinge on his conciousness?  His statement gives an earlier time for his call than the phone records.
Either a different phone was used or he realised the error of his delay to call or it is something lost in translation.

Whatever ... it is a moment in time which never can be repeated or changed and those involved at the time did not have the benefit of hindsight enjoyed by us who pore over their every move confident that in their circumstance we would have done exactly the right thing.

As the phone calls were flagged as being off topic, I thrashed it out at my place instead.  See https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/2015/12/04/madeleine-luz-2007-yellow-pages/ His story and Vitor's are out re time but otherwise fit each other perfectly and fit the phone records we have.

His 'fault' was that he made his statement on 9/5/2007, so he had 6 days to forget the precise time he made the phone call.  Vitor's 'fault' was he made his statement on 7/5/2007, so he had only 4 days to forget the precise time.

[misty]

As the phone calls were flagged as being off topic, I thrashed it out at my place instead.  See https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/2015/12/04/madeleine-luz-2007-yellow-pages/ His story and Vitor's are out re time but otherwise fit each other perfectly and fit the phone records we have.

His 'fault' was that he made his statement on 9/5/2007, so he had 6 days to forget the precise time he made the phone call.  Vitor's 'fault' was he made his statement on 7/5/2007, so he had only 4 days to forget the precise time.

It is impossible to make an accurate analysis of phone records which have been re-typed into Excel & are also incomplete. Doesn't the lack of phone traffic immediately after 22.51 on Greentrust records seem strange?
Helder probably did call the GNR using another line. It is probably in the full record of emergency calls that night - which is why the PJ never pursued that anomaly in his statement & the timeline.

[Brietta]

As the phone calls were flagged as being off topic, I thrashed it out at my place instead.  See https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/2015/12/04/madeleine-luz-2007-yellow-pages/ His story and Vitor's are out re time but otherwise fit each other perfectly and fit the phone records we have.

His 'fault' was that he made his statement on 9/5/2007, so he had 6 days to forget the precise time he made the phone call.  Vitor's 'fault' was he made his statement on 7/5/2007, so he had only 4 days to forget the precise time.

The writing down of the timeline undertaken in the immediate aftermath of the event was exactly the correct thing to do as attested by the unnamed GNR officer.
I would have used a different methodology ... but at least they recognised the importance of memory fading or becoming embellished with time and recording it before too much of that could occur.

It was a more valuable use of their time than the searching they did bearing in mind there were many others doing that who were not in possession of their valuable knowledge of the sequence of events.

I follow your blog ... https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/2015/12/04/madeleine-luz-2007-yellow-pages/ and am struck by the amount of work you have put into the phone records.
My brain doesn't work that way unfortunately (or fortunately because it certainly makes my life a bit easier than the tasks you set yourself) you have a similar analytical mindset as Sadie, Misty and Pegasus I think ... given a problem you are all like a terrier with a bone.


Of interest as far as searching goes these two threads go into some detail about the derelict building which was the topic of interest not too long ago for which you provided photographs which cleared a few things up ... Heri has also provided some excellent photographs in topic 1390.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1183.msg33129#msg33129
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1390.msg38347#msg38347