Author Topic: So what actual searching was there?  (Read 411109 times)

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Offline pegasus

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2160 on: June 20, 2016, 12:31:43 AM »
If the net was fully extended across the window, it would only be possible for KM's complete prints to be on the glass pane if she first lifted the net & placed it over her head.(snip)
There were two net curtains http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMJ_QdDWoAEEqAb.jpg

Offline Brietta

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2161 on: June 20, 2016, 12:32:28 AM »
If the net was fully extended across the window, it would only be possible for KM's complete prints to be on the glass pane if she first lifted the net & placed it over her head. Otherwise, her left hand would be used to hold the curtain away from the window to facilitate leaning out & looking. Important to remember the window slides across rather than opening out.
On the other hand, if the net had been retracted as was suggested, it must have been pushed back to the left (as viewed from the inside) quite a long way so Kate could freely place her hand on the glass without entrapping any part of the net under her fingers. How was the net pushed back that far from outside the window, from ground level, with such ease? The nets at the other windows appear to be at least 2.5x if not 3x window width - bulky & difficult to push very far quickly or easily.
Did Kate kneel on the bed or climb across & stand in the small gap between the foot of the bed & the chair to look out the window?
The r/h curtain tie-back was pictured on the floor under the window - how did that get there & what happened about forensics on it?
IMO the window was opened by someone inside the bedroom, not by a burglar outside the room.

I also think that the window was opened from the inside.
Your thoughts on the arrangement of the net would indicate someone wanted no impediment either to hasty exit or to passing Madeleine through once she had been picked up from the bed where she had been placed on top of the covers.

I think the gender of the checker played a part here.
The father looked fondly at the (perhaps) sleeping child; in my opinion the mother would have entered the room to place her under the covers: an intruder in the room, had there been one, would have been seen.  Precipitating who knows what even greater tragedy than the one which happened.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2162 on: June 20, 2016, 12:34:08 AM »
There were two net curtains http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMJ_QdDWoAEEqAb.jpg

I don't think I've seen that photograph before.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline misty

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2163 on: June 20, 2016, 12:52:45 AM »
There were two net curtains http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMJ_QdDWoAEEqAb.jpg

Do you have the exact date & source of that photo, please?

Offline pegasus

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2164 on: June 20, 2016, 12:52:59 AM »
I don't think I've seen that photograph before.
It is a real photo taken while the red forennsic dust was still on the shutter.

Offline misty

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2165 on: June 20, 2016, 12:56:49 AM »
It is a real photo taken while the red forennsic dust was still on the shutter.


Did they really dust the underside of the shutter like that?
Why is the photo not in the PJ files?

Offline pegasus

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2166 on: June 20, 2016, 12:59:29 AM »
Do you have the exact date & source of that photo, please?
I'll try to find the source for you Misty.
And here is another photo which proves there were two net curtains, you can see the right one
http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/foto9.jpg
Source: http://www.mccannfiles.com/id155.html foto9

Offline pegasus

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2167 on: June 20, 2016, 01:16:33 AM »

Offline misty

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2168 on: June 20, 2016, 01:20:52 AM »
I'll try to find the source for you Misty.
And here is another photo which proves there were two net curtains, you can see the right one
http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/foto9.jpg
Source: http://www.mccannfiles.com/id155.html foto9

Thanks, Pegasus.
One curtain or two - do you see what I'm driving at regarding uninterrupted prints on the pane if the window was fully open? Why would someone from outside push the net any further back than they needed to?

Offline misty

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2169 on: June 20, 2016, 01:33:10 AM »
Another photo proving two net curtains
http://www.allmystery.de/i/te4d637_333205_App-window-4.jpg

Not a crime scene photo, Pegasus, unless Moita Flores had unrestricted access at the time. No date on photo = presume it came from CdM docu?
Surely the original net curtains would have been bagged up & taken away?
It's strange that that bedroom seems to have the only window with a double net.

Offline pegasus

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2170 on: June 20, 2016, 01:58:56 AM »
Not a crime scene photo, Pegasus, unless Moita Flores had unrestricted access at the time. No date on photo = presume it came from CdM docu?
Surely the original net curtains would have been bagged up & taken away?
It's strange that that bedroom seems to have the only window with a double net.
That is a press photo of Rebelo examining the window in Oct 2007.
But I do not understand how you can dispute the following photo Misty
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMJ_QdDWoAEEqAb.jpg
It is clearly a crime scene photo taken soon after the apparent disappearance of the child, and it clearly shows two net curtains.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 02:01:32 AM by pegasus »

Offline Brietta

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2171 on: June 20, 2016, 02:02:14 AM »
The photograph accompanied the 2014 article below.


English want to take the curtain Maddie Room
British researchers intend to reassess the bedroom curtain where Maddie slept.

Rui Pando Gomes

It is a piece of the room curtains where Maddie was sleeping and was fully considered by the Portuguese experts in 2007. It is this piece of fabric that the British police now want to take England to be analyzed by a private laboratory, because it believes may be the key to the mystery of the disappearance of British child.

The British want to re-examine everything that was found by Portuguese police in apartment 5A at the Ocean Club, in Praia da Luz in Lagos.
Researchers believe that whoever took the child's room will have left DNA traces in the curtains.

The piece of fabric, which is saved in the process, was subjected to various tests by experts from the National Institute of Forensic Medicine. At the time, know the CM, we evaluated the presence of blood, hair and semen. no trace, which made it impossible to compare with DNA profile was not found.

However, the British say, seven years later, they can use new techniques to detect DNA.
They also want to re-examine 30 hairs found in the home, using new genetic and biological tests. The request for a review of the remains will be done to the prosecution of Portimão through a sixth letter rogatory, although there is still no answer to the fifth order.

The Portuguese authorities warned the British, a two weeks meeting that the techniques used in Portugal are equal or more sophisticated than those used in England.

http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/nacional/portugal/detalhe/ingleses_querem_levar_cortinado.html
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline misty

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2172 on: June 20, 2016, 02:31:43 AM »
That is a press photo of Rebelo examining the window in Oct 2007.
But I do not understand how you can dispute the following photo Misty
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMJ_QdDWoAEEqAb.jpg
It is clearly a crime scene photo taken soon after the apparent disappearance of the child, and it clearly shows two net curtains.

Yes, sorry, my mistake, I was reading the site I linked the photo to & the quote from Flores about the size of the window opening.

The other photo - no date, time or PJ stamp on it. Not in the files, so how can it be authenticated?

Offline G-Unit

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2173 on: June 20, 2016, 12:39:58 PM »
So the curtains were either open or drawn back [early statements] or they were closed and blew inwards with a gust of wind [later statements]. In videos only the nets are shown billowing in the wind, not the heavier full length curtains, which don't appear to be fully closed. It would be interesting to know the strength of a gust of wind needed to cause the bedroom door to slam if the main curtains were closed.

There was then another gust of wind which caused the curtains to fly open and she saw that the window was pushed right open and the shutter was right up. Did the curtains fly open in the middle then? Both sets? I wonder how wide the gap had to be to see that the window was pushed right open? You might assume it was, given all the gusts of wind, but would you see it? Equally, would you see enough to know the shutter was right up?

According to the later statements then the shutter was up, the window was open but the curtains were closed. Kate must have opened them then. She went over and drew back both sets of curtains. A reconstruction would perhaps have shown how she did that. Did it involve two actions, one for the main curtains and one for the nets? Where did she stand to do it? In front of the bed or in the gap between the bed and the chair? I'm interested because the left hand curtain was trapped by the bed, which involves first opening it then pushing the bed against the wall to trap it.
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Offline pegasus

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2174 on: June 20, 2016, 01:46:30 PM »
So the curtains were either open or drawn back [early statements] or they were closed and blew inwards with a gust of wind [later statements]. In videos only the nets are shown billowing in the wind, not the heavier full length curtains, which don't appear to be fully closed. It would be interesting to know the strength of a gust of wind needed to cause the bedroom door to slam if the main curtains were closed.

There was then another gust of wind which caused the curtains to fly open and she saw that the window was pushed right open and the shutter was right up. Did the curtains fly open in the middle then? Both sets? I wonder how wide the gap had to be to see that the window was pushed right open? You might assume it was, given all the gusts of wind, but would you see it? Equally, would you see enough to know the shutter was right up?

According to the later statements then the shutter was up, the window was open but the curtains were closed. Kate must have opened them then. She went over and drew back both sets of curtains. A reconstruction would perhaps have shown how she did that. Did it involve two actions, one for the main curtains and one for the nets? Where did she stand to do it? In front of the bed or in the gap between the bed and the chair? I'm interested because the left hand curtain was trapped by the bed, which involves first opening it then pushing the bed against the wall to trap it.
When the window is slid maximum open the resulting opening is only 50% of the total window area and this is normally the right (viewed from inside) 50% of the window area. So viewed from inside, and with wind from north, the right curtain and the right net will get blown in more than the left curtain and left net.