Author Topic: A reasonable viewpoint  (Read 3334 times)

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Online G-Unit

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2021, 04:26:17 PM »
There's nasty and there's nasty.  Defending the parents of a missing child against whom there is no evidence isn't nasty.

Defending them by being nasty to others is still nasty, whatever the reason.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2021, 04:55:21 PM »
Many of the McCann supporters haven't moved on. They still insist that there's evidence of abduction, they still hurl a variety of accusations at anyone who doesn't share their opinions, and they still give too much credence to media stories in my opinion.
Given that it’s very clear that stranger abduction is the only explanation for Madeleine’s disappearance being treated seriously by two police forces for the last few years I don’t think McCann supporters have to do any moving on. 
I no longer read nor reply to posts made by those posters I perceive to be WUMS and TROLLS so if you think I'm ignoring you this may be the reason.  Best wishes.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2021, 04:56:30 PM »
There's certainly evidence that she disappeared from the street outside the apartment but supporters are keen to distance themselves from that scenario as it implies neglect on behalf of the parents.
They left the kids alone, that’s the “neglect”.  Whether she walked or was taken makes no difference to that fact.
I no longer read nor reply to posts made by those posters I perceive to be WUMS and TROLLS so if you think I'm ignoring you this may be the reason.  Best wishes.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2021, 04:57:50 PM »
Why don't you just stop obfuscating and tell it as it was. Smith was so sure he had witnessed Gerry McCann carrying his daughter the night Maddie disappeared that he called the Irish police and reported it. That IS evidence whether you like it or not.
If he was “so sure” why didn’t he say “I am 100% certain”?
I no longer read nor reply to posts made by those posters I perceive to be WUMS and TROLLS so if you think I'm ignoring you this may be the reason.  Best wishes.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2021, 04:58:56 PM »
What if an eye witness came forward fingering CB '60 / 80%'? Is that any more compelling?
No, now you answer the question too.
I no longer read nor reply to posts made by those posters I perceive to be WUMS and TROLLS so if you think I'm ignoring you this may be the reason.  Best wishes.

Offline Brietta

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2021, 05:14:16 PM »
Len Port has been involved in the story of Madeleine's disappearance from the first day. In fact he actually was the first journalist on the scene, imo, despite Jon Clarke's claims. I find this article from 2014 to be balanced and sensible.

"In the midst of the latest phase in the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, Sky News presenter Kay Burley entered the fray with an article in the Daily Mirror in which she castigated “conspiracy theorists” and “[ censored word ]s” of Madeleine’s parents.

Burley, a reporter and newsreader of long standing, wrote: “I am absolutely staggered by the number of people on social media who think they know exactly what happened to little Madeleine. Conspiracy theorists believe that it’s only a matter of time before the McCanns are held culpable for their daughter’s disappearance.”

Burley went on to dismiss criticisms of Kate McCann’s refusal to answer questions put to her by Portuguese police, and to belittle what many have read into the findings of cadaver dogs in the McCanns holiday apartment and a hire car they used.

“Easy to dismiss such claims as Looney Tunes, but even a national newspaper was guilty of claiming the McCanns know more than they have told the police,” wrote Burley.

“As a mother I am offended and appalled by such unfounded allegations.

“Every morning the McCann’s must wake up only to be smothered by a blanket of guilt. ‘ If only we’d done this…’

“They have always held on to the hope that Madeleine will be found alive.

“So as the search continues, please ignore the [ censored word ]s and think instead of two desperate parents hundreds of miles away sitting by the phone and hoping against hope that nothing is found this time.”

This heartfelt standpoint exemplifies one of the most contentious features of this extraordinary case. In the absence of indisputable evidence, two conflicting schools of thought have developed about what happened to Madeleine: one that she was abducted, the other that she died inadvertently in the apartment and her parents were somehow involved in a cover-up.

There was no proof either way in 2007 and there is none today, but it is human nature to adopt a preferred line of probability depending on one’s logical and emotional approach.

It is true that many people hiding in the safety of anonymity or pseudonyms make abhorrent, highly abusive comments on internet sites. In the absence of legal options, indeed they should be ignored.

The trouble with Kay Burley’s condemnation, however, is that in its broad sweep it fails to recognize that many of those who do not accept as a given fact that Madeleine was abducted are not “[ censored word ]s.”

Some of the McCann doubters and critics have probably studied this case in more depth and for longer than most mainstream media journalists in Britain.

They are aware, for example, that back in May 2007 no trace was found of a break-in or a burglary, let alone a kidnapping, at the apartment from which Madeleine went missing.
Well-informed sceptics want the truth to emerge so that justice can finally be done. Their reasoned arguments and conclusions are worthy of serious consideration.

Not everyone believes what they hear on television news channels or read in newspapers. ‘Churnalistic’ and seemingly servile coverage of this case gives rise to distrust.

While there is genuine compassion for Madeleine’s devastated parents, a great many Portuguese mothers are offended and appalled by the repercussions in this country of leaving Madeleine and her siblings alone that fateful night.

The reputations of the Portuguese judicial police, the original lead detective and a range of innocent ‘suspects’ have been blackened in the British media over the years.

To cap it all, the Algarve has been cast recently as a hotbed of pedophilia and the ordinary folk dependent on tourism for their livelihood in Praia da Luz have been subjected to the crass timing of the current search operations.

Obviously this case has been a very public and impassioned one, but simplistic rants in the mainstream or social media are not helpful.

One indisputable fact is that no matter how much anyone sympathizes with or is critical of Kate and Gerry McCann, it is still far from clear exactly what happened to their daughter.

Sadly, it is looking increasing unlikely we shall know any time soon.

At the end of a TV interview at the weekend, former Chief Inspector Gonçalo Amaral, who believes Madeleine died in the apartment, was asked: “Will we ever find out what really happened that night?”

He replied: “Yes, we will. When MI5 opens the case files we will find out. Don’t forget that the British secret services followed the case right from the beginning. On location.”

Amaral did not predict how long it might be before that information becomes available.
https://portuguese-american-journal.com/updatethe-mccann-case-divided-opinions-by-len-port/

Port has indicated investigative failures which might go some way to indicate why Madeleine's disappearance was unresolved "One indisputable fact is that no matter how much anyone sympathizes with or is critical of Kate and Gerry McCann, it is still far from clear exactly what happened to their daughter."

There is an outstanding record of failure to solve cases of sexual assaults on children in the place where they should be the safest under their own roofs and in their own beds.


The gist of the latest statement from the Met police in London on their investigation also sounded remarkably similar to what has long been in the public domain, but the so-called ‘quality’ press, along with the tabloids, churned it out as if it were not only a hot new lead, but even “a breakthrough.”

The Met statement appealed for further information on “a potential linked series of twelve crimes which occurred between 2004 and 2010, mostly in low season, whereby a male intruder has gained access to mainly holiday villas occupied by UK families on holiday in the Western Algarve.”

In four of the cases, the intruder is alleged to have sexually assaulted five white girls, aged between seven and ten years, in their beds.

Senior ex-police officers, led by former detective inspector Dave Edgar and hired by parents Kate and Gerry, looked into sexual attacks on at least five English girls between 2004 and 2007. Their findings were described in some detail by the News of the World in May 2009.

Kate McCann also wrote about the assaults in her book published in May 2012: “One of the most concerning and upsetting pieces of information to emerge quite early was the record of sexual crimes against children in the Algarve. This discovery made me feel physically sick. I read of five cases of British children on holiday being sexually abused in their beds while their parents slept in another room. In three further incidents, children encountered an intruder in their bedrooms, who was presumably disturbed before he had the chance to carry out an assault.”

Yet even The Times last week felt moved to report that “A sex attacker who preyed on young British girls holidaying with their families on the Algarve is a key suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann seven years ago, police said today.”

https://portuguese-american-journal.com/update-madeleine-case-in-a-right-old-muddle-by-len-port/


Why did it have to wait for the Met and the McCann detectives to attempt to solve these crimes against children.

Why were the Portuguese police not a bit more proactive on behalf of those children to whom they had a duty of care.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2021, 05:22:06 PM by Brietta »
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Mr Gray

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2021, 05:31:40 PM »
Why don't you just stop obfuscating and tell it as it was. Smith was so sure he had witnessed Gerry McCann carrying his daughter the night Maddie disappeared that he called the Irish police and reported it. That IS evidence whether you like it or not.

Of course it's evidence.. Just like the open window claim.. The thousands of sightingd of Maddie... It's all evidence... Apart from the dog alerts if course

Offline Brietta

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2021, 05:36:51 PM »
Why is it that Port and sceptics seem to think that actually investigating witness accounts in a missing child case is  a reason for criticism or ridicule.

"Other “key” suspects over the past few months have included Gypsies, British cleaners, bogus East European charity workers and two mystery German-speaking men, but according to the latest Met statement, witnesses described the supposedly lone sex attacker as “having dark (as in tanned skin) with short dark unkempt hair.”
https://portuguese-american-journal.com/update-madeleine-case-in-a-right-old-muddle-by-len-port/


Hmmm.
Hold on a minute ~ "two mystery German-speaking men".

Isn't that rather topical at the moment;  wonder why no-one in Portugal bothered with it back in 2007 or in the years after.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline barrier

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2021, 06:26:31 PM »
No one.  He didn't see the face of the person and he said so.  And nor did any of his family.  Did you miss that bit?

And 60 to 80% is simply not good enough.

Do you understand anything about the law of identification?

The girl being carried was described by Redwood as "a description very close to that of Madeleine McCann". The only child that night British police made that comment on.


E unum pluribus


Offline barrier

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2021, 06:32:01 PM »
As ever, we have done all this many times while you weren't around.

And The McCanns have never been so much as arrested.

Nor has anyone over the disappearance.


E unum pluribus


Online Eleanor

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #40 on: December 14, 2021, 07:56:27 PM »
Nor has anyone over the disappearance.

They don't have to arrest Breuckner.

Online G-Unit

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #41 on: December 14, 2021, 08:51:01 PM »
Why is it that Port and sceptics seem to think that actually investigating witness accounts in a missing child case is  a reason for criticism or ridicule.

"Other “key” suspects over the past few months have included Gypsies, British cleaners, bogus East European charity workers and two mystery German-speaking men, but according to the latest Met statement, witnesses described the supposedly lone sex attacker as “having dark (as in tanned skin) with short dark unkempt hair.”
https://portuguese-american-journal.com/update-madeleine-case-in-a-right-old-muddle-by-len-port/


Hmmm.
Hold on a minute ~ "two mystery German-speaking men".

Isn't that rather topical at the moment;  wonder why no-one in Portugal bothered with it back in 2007 or in the years after.

Operation Grange did seem to be tackling every rumour in sight. I think originally the men seen on a balcony desctibed as blond. German looking/speaking was added later imo.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #42 on: December 14, 2021, 09:24:42 PM »
Operation Grange did seem to be tackling every rumour in sight. I think originally the men seen on a balcony desctibed as blond. German looking/speaking was added later imo.
Some call it “tackling every rumour in sight”, others call it following up leads and leaving no stone unturned.
I no longer read nor reply to posts made by those posters I perceive to be WUMS and TROLLS so if you think I'm ignoring you this may be the reason.  Best wishes.

Online G-Unit

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #43 on: December 14, 2021, 09:37:27 PM »
Some call it “tackling every rumour in sight”, others call it following up leads and leaving no stone unturned.

Leads? Two men were seen on a balcony wearing shorts. Two men in shorts were known to be on a balcony that afternoon, and they were wearing shorts;



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Online Eleanor

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #44 on: December 14, 2021, 09:47:42 PM »
Some call it “tackling every rumour in sight”, others call it following up leads and leaving no stone unturned.

Was that not on the balcony of an empty appartment?