Author Topic: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.  (Read 60793 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #90 on: August 10, 2017, 02:15:25 PM »
He travelled to school in his Commer van, but slept in a dilapidated caravan in the back garden. It was situated to the north of the house (to the left in the aerial view). In the caravan photo you can make out a gable end and chimney of the house (north side) at the top right hand corner. The rotary clothes drier on which police hung out the spun washing is just visible to the bottom of the aerial view.

Thanks.  You shattered my illusion  8(8-))
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #91 on: August 10, 2017, 02:33:31 PM »
Thanks.  You shattered my illusion  8(8-))

The reality...
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #92 on: August 10, 2017, 04:11:24 PM »
... and didn't notice any blood on clothes left in the laundry basket, but left fingerprints on the side of the Hoover toploader and blood on the washing powder container sitting on the shelf above. Furthermore, he claimed that he separated whites from coloureds, yet when police hung them out to dry they were all in the same wash.

The laundry/washroom showing Hoover toploader with laundry basket in front, and shelf with "Will Power" washing powder which had a blood stain on it...

From IB's report:

6. The Palm Print on the Washing Machine

352. In his examination of the laundry area, a “faint” palm print was identified on the
washing machine. Mr Jones did not note in his initial examination that this print was reddish
[bloodlike] in colour, but later work identified the palm print as David’s and likely it was blood.
David Bain told the Police when first interviewed on 20 June that he had put on a load of “dark”
clothing in the washer on his return from the paper route. It is common ground that clothing
included the bloody outer clothing worn by the killer – including (possibly) the socks and
(definitely) the green V‐necked sweater which matched fibres found under Stephen’s finger
nails. While David Bain did not notice the blood on the dark clothing in the dimly lit laundry (as
already noted, one of the detectives later went to turn on the light in that room only to
discover the light was already on), it is no doubt likely that in handling clothing with blood on it
some of the blood came off on his hands, which likely transferred to the washing machine when
he touched it. He says he did not wash his hands after putting on the laundry, so some blood
from the load of clothing must have persisted there for some time to a greater or lesser extent.
The evidence is not exculpatory but nor do I find it inculpatory in light of David Bain’s
acknowledged handling of the bloodied “coloured” clothing in the laundry basket and the
likelihood of innocent transfer.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #93 on: August 10, 2017, 04:58:47 PM »
I think I recall reading DB used the rifle for bunny hunting?  No one seems to have suggested RB would not have the prerequisite skills to load the mag, operate the rifle and take aim at the victims.  And yet there's no evidence he had any more or less experience with firearms than SC?  It seems RB assisted DB to sight the rifle but SC was around firearms and those that use them during her childhood and adulthood at WHF.  Is this a sexist thing?  Ie no one questions a scruffy middle-aged man's ability in this regard but an attractive woman who took care of her appearance by way of her nails etc was in 1985/86 seen as too incompetent?

I stand corrected, albeit by myself!  After further reading it appears all concerned agreed RB had a greater familiarity with firearms than DB had. 

In any event what it does show is that a .22 with subsonic ammo is potentially lethal with one gsw to the head.  Therefore the number of gunshots fired at WHF was unnecessary unless the perp was unfamiliar with firearms or the perp wanted to create the illusion the perp was unfamiliar with firearms!
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #94 on: August 10, 2017, 06:48:22 PM »
... or his parents were already aware that someone was sneaking about in the house because Crispy barked, or they heard the shower room sash window open and/or toiletries being knocked of its sill, so were in the act of getting out of bed to investigate. Instead of a perfect plan of them being shot cleanly and instantly in the head whilst asleep, they became moving targets, June hit mostly on her right side and Nevill in the face, both while sitting upright. I don't think there's any mileage in the idea that JB shot hapazardly on purpose to implicate Sheila... that would definitely have put the plan at risk of failure. He was just shocked that they were awake and fired off in the hope that some bullets would be on target in the split seconds available in an unlit room.  As he'd never killed anyone before, JB was only a novice would-be assassin.

Anyway an interesting observation that both cases involve 5 murders or 4 murders/suicide (both the latter imo) and all died by a .22 calibre semi-auto rifle with subsonic ammo and yet:

- A total of 25 or 26 bullets were used at WHF and only 7 at ES.

Other notable differences:

- Numerous blood drips on flooring at WHF from June and NB's GSW's.  Unaware of any at ES (Every Street) probably because victims didn't move from location/room they were shot in other than SB and he remained within his own bedroom.

- No footprints at WHF.  Several footprints in blood at ES.  Most probably SB's blood which the perp carried on his/her foot.

- The prosecution claim a "violent struggle" took place at WHF and yet there was little blood in the vicinity save a smear around tiles near the Aga and on the kitchen work top.   Defence and prosecution agree a "violent struggle" took place in SB's bedroom at ES and much blood was spilled evidenced by numerous blood stained objects including the bed and door frame.   
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 11:03:43 AM by John »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #95 on: August 11, 2017, 06:52:49 PM »
Have you listened to episode 9 of MvB's podcast about David Bain's arm tattoo?... on how he misled Ian Binnie about when he had it done, some 18 months before the murders after the council put down his dog for biting a postman and he wanted something to remember it by.  Helen Bennett, who was interviewed recently by MvB said she tattooed him about a week before the murders and he paid by signed cheque (Bain). He also misled his aunt Jane Clark, and girlfriend about the timing.

Tattooist Helen Bennett interview. Scroll down to Episode 9... https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/blackhands/evidence/

"Recovered Memories" podcast discussing his tattoo from 24m:08s... http://stuff.libsyn.com/recovered-memories
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 11:05:30 AM by John »
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Myster

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #96 on: August 11, 2017, 07:15:56 PM »
I stand corrected, albeit by myself!  After further reading it appears all concerned agreed RB had a greater familiarity with firearms than DB had. 

In any event what it does show is that a .22 with subsonic ammo is potentially lethal with one gsw to the head.  Therefore the number of gunshots fired at WHF was unnecessary unless the perp was unfamiliar with firearms or the perp wanted to create the illusion the perp was unfamiliar with firearms!
With the Bain family bedrooms being so cluttered, it's a miracle that so few bullets were needed to finish them off.

In Laniet's room the perp either fired from a distance, his way being blocked by the drawing-board chair and ironing board, hence three shots required, or he moved the ironing board sideways to get in closer.

In Arawa's room the way was blocked by a whacking great post, but she must have heard some noise from the fracas upstairs, Stephen's fight say, and was out of bed to make the assassin's job easier, only needing one bullet.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline puglove

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #97 on: August 12, 2017, 11:17:37 PM »
With the Bain family bedrooms being so cluttered, it's a miracle that so few bullets were needed to finish them off.

In Laniet's room the perp either fired from a distance, his way being blocked by the drawing-board chair and ironing board, hence three shots required, or he moved the ironing board sideways to get in closer.

In Arawa's room the way was blocked by a whacking great post, but she must have heard some noise from the fracas upstairs, Stephen's fight say, and was out of bed to make the assassin's job easier, only needing one bullet.

Here we go again.    &%&£(+

So Stephen had fibres from the green jersey underneath his fingernails?

Even if Samson's ramblings hadn't automatically alerted me to DB's guilt, I would have got there eventually. It's obvious.

Myster, best-beloved, what is the relevance of the hot water bottle?
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline Myster

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #98 on: August 13, 2017, 10:04:52 AM »
Here we go again.    &%&£(+

So Stephen had fibres from the green jersey underneath his fingernails?

Even if Samson's ramblings hadn't automatically alerted me to DB's guilt, I would have got there eventually. It's obvious.

Myster, best-beloved, what is the relevance of the hot water bottle?

No idea why the hot water bottle was so important, other than it being early winter in NZ on 20th June and freezing cold overnight in Dunedin.  Think all the family must have had a "Fashy" each... there was one in Arawa's cluttered bedroom, as well as in Robin's musty hovel.

But... if we are expected to believe that Robin Bain was the killer, he must have walked out of the kitchen door and down to his battered old caravan to change his bloodied clothes, because he didn't bargain on Stephen putting up such fierce resistance and hadn't brought any spare clean rigout to the house in advance. Having redressed, Robin (being a tidy man!), then bundles up his stained green jersey, tracksuit bottoms, socks, etc. and returns to the washroom, drops them all into the laundry basket ready for his son's attention, who, apart from being "the only one who deserved to stay", was also the muggins left behind to clean up the bloody mess his beleaguered father had created.

Robin then washes his hands, makes his way back upstairs, takes hold of the rifle again which is smeared all over with Stephen's blood but manages to get none of it on his damp hands and on the computer keyboard, to type that brief impersonal suicide note.  Why not leave something handwritten and more appropriate, such as...

My dear David,

I'm so very sorry it had to end like this, because although Laniet was my special favourite and Arawa and Stephen the apples of my eye, you are the only one who deserves to live... despite the argument we had at weekend over who should have the chainsaw, and that you were fuming over the load of soil I dumped on your precious groundwork, and you felt that I should no longer be part of this family, living in the communal sanctuary which Margaret and yourself had planned.

Your ever loving father, Robin.


[attachment deleted by admin]
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline APRIL

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #99 on: August 13, 2017, 11:46:27 AM »
No idea why the hot water bottle was so important, other than it being early winter in NZ on 20th June and freezing cold overnight in Dunedin.  Think all the family must have had a "Fashy" each... there was one in Arawa's cluttered bedroom, as well as in Robin's musty hovel.

But... if we are expected to believe that Robin Bain was the killer, he must have walked out of the kitchen door and down to his battered old caravan to change his bloodied clothes, because he didn't bargain on Stephen putting up such fierce resistance and hadn't brought any spare clean rigout to the house in advance. Having redressed, Robin (being a tidy man!), then bundles up his stained green jersey, tracksuit bottoms, socks, etc. and returns to the washroom, drops them all into the laundry basket ready for his son's attention, who, apart from being "the only one who deserved to stay", was also the muggins left behind to clean up the bloody mess his beleaguered father had created.

Robin then washes his hands, makes his way back upstairs, takes hold of the rifle again which is smeared all over with Stephen's blood but manages to get none of it on his damp hands and on the computer keyboard, to type that brief impersonal suicide note.  Why not leave something handwritten and more appropriate, such as...

My dear David,

I'm so very sorry it had to end like this, because although Laniet was my special favourite and Arawa and Stephen the apples of my eye, you are the only one who deserves to live... despite the argument we had at weekend over who should have the chainsaw, and that you were fuming over the load of soil I dumped on your precious groundwork, and you felt that I should no longer be part of this family, living in the communal sanctuary which Margaret and yourself had planned.

Your ever loving father, Robin.


I know less than nothing about this case, but what I can tell you is that there's a very strong edge of sarcasm in that alleged suicide note that I don't believe would have been included by an about to commit suicide father to his son.

Offline Samson

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #100 on: August 13, 2017, 12:12:14 PM »
I know less than nothing about this case, but what I can tell you is that there's a very strong edge of sarcasm in that alleged suicide note that I don't believe would have been included by an about to commit suicide father to his son.
April, in contrast, I know more than everything about this case.
Robin Bain was the most frequent and able user of the computer.
Earlier in the evening Laniet, had explained to her mother Margaret that Robin was having sex with her. They agreed to confront Robin, who of course realised that his life was effectively over. That explains the row David explained he heard from downstairs while trying to sleep in advance of his 5 30am paper round.
CCTV footage and bank records show Laniet and Margaret withdrawing maximal cash from a machine around midnight. They have  never done this before of course. This is a fact no one challenges.
Robin never went to the caravan that night but stayed up drinking coffee and keeping the fire going. When David left for the paper round he was unaware of his father upstairs and the cash withdrawal. Robin then shot the women and strangled Stephen. As David's return became imminent, he confronted the inevitable, switched on the computer, fast typed the message that he never planned, and shot himself. It is a bit like the classic Cat in the Hat narrative, mom walking up the garden path just after all the drama.
Poor David, snatched from a safe home like Jeremy Bamber by the conspiracy theorists.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 12:14:27 PM by Samson »

Offline Samson

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #101 on: August 13, 2017, 12:16:39 PM »
Here we go again.    &%&£(+

So Stephen had fibres from the green jersey underneath his fingernails?

Even if Samson's ramblings hadn't automatically alerted me to DB's guilt, I would have got there eventually. It's obvious.

Myster, best-beloved, what is the relevance of the hot water bottle?
puglove, you are welcome to your opinions, but not your own facts. Sorry honey, you are out of your depth in this case.
 8**8:/:

Offline APRIL

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #102 on: August 13, 2017, 05:55:36 PM »
April, in contrast, I know more than everything about this case.
Robin Bain was the most frequent and able user of the computer.
Earlier in the evening Laniet, had explained to her mother Margaret that Robin was having sex with her. They agreed to confront Robin, who of course realised that his life was effectively over. That explains the row David explained he heard from downstairs while trying to sleep in advance of his 5 30am paper round.
CCTV footage and bank records show Laniet and Margaret withdrawing maximal cash from a machine around midnight. They have  never done this before of course. This is a fact no one challenges.
Robin never went to the caravan that night but stayed up drinking coffee and keeping the fire going. When David left for the paper round he was unaware of his father upstairs and the cash withdrawal. Robin then shot the women and strangled Stephen. As David's return became imminent, he confronted the inevitable, switched on the computer, fast typed the message that he never planned, and shot himself. It is a bit like the classic Cat in the Hat narrative, mom walking up the garden path just after all the drama.
Poor David, snatched from a safe home like Jeremy Bamber by the conspiracy theorists.

Samson, I don't know who ANY of the players are in this tragedy. Their names don't matter. They could be ANYBODY. I don't care how able a computer user was the typist. I can only just manage this keyboard, but I know how to put words, sentences and paragraphs together. My point, therefore, I believe, stands. The note had a sarcastic edge not commensurate with a father writing to his son, prior to committing suicide.

Offline Myster

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #103 on: August 13, 2017, 07:09:37 PM »
April, in contrast, I know more than everything about this case.

So you'd like to think... but nowhere near as much as MvB.

Robin Bain was the most frequent and able user of the computer.

Proves nothing... David was probably just as competent (Geez... as if Microsoft Word was complicated!), claimed he did use the PC occasionally, and it was in a family room, not exclusively Robin's even though "his influence there was greatest", whatever that riddle-me-ree was supposed to mean.

Earlier in the evening Laniet, had explained to her mother Margaret that Robin was having sex with her. They agreed to confront Robin, who of course realised that his life was effectively over. That explains the row David explained he heard from downstairs while trying to sleep in advance of his 5 30am paper round.

See Binnie Amended Report concerning alleged argument and incest allegation, "smoke but no fire" extract below.

CCTV footage and bank records show Laniet and Margaret withdrawing maximal cash from a machine around midnight. They have  never done this before of course. This is a fact no one challenges.

Again, see Binnie Amended Report - "The transfers do not seem to be particularly large or significant"


Robin never went to the caravan that night but stayed up drinking coffee and keeping the fire going.

Robin's unmade bed, which also contained his hot water bottle, had been slept in. His pale blue underpants were also on the floor by the bed, and he hadn't any on underneath the tracksuit bottoms he was found in.

When David left for the paper round he was unaware of his father upstairs and the cash withdrawal. Robin then shot the women and strangled Stephen. As David's return became imminent, he confronted the inevitable, switched on the computer, fast typed the message that he never planned, and shot himself. It is a bit like the classic Cat in the Hat narrative, mom walking up the garden path just after all the drama.

Poor David, snatched from a safe home like Jeremy Bamber by the conspiracy theorists.

The only conspiracy theorists live on Bamber's official site and on blue, of which you're a member.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 07:18:00 PM by Myster »
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Samson

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #104 on: August 13, 2017, 09:31:43 PM »
The fact remains, Robin had a stated and rationally explained motive. Dean Cottle turns out to b be an outstanding witness when allowed to talk, he was of sufficient means to provide Laniet with a cell phone back in those days. Robin was extremely familiar with the rifle, and the muzzle of the silencer was factually deemed to have been in contact with his left temple for the one shot inflicted. And this one shot was a perfect trajectory for a left hand reach for the trigger in a standing position. You can't get this into a "plan", as there is zero room for error in a fraught situation. And it was a rising shot when Robin was alleged to be kneeling.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 11:21:39 AM by John »