Author Topic: The investigation into the Smith family's sighting  (Read 51941 times)

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Offline misty

Re: The investigation into the Smith family's sighting
« Reply #90 on: September 21, 2017, 06:33:25 PM »
I was just pointing out that the UK comics tabloids were busy finding pictures, not words. That was, it seems, against Portuguese law, but that didn't stop them.

At the time those pictures were published, IMO someone inside the PJ was breaching judicial secrecy. That is not the same as the data protection act. The release of Pamela Fenn's statement was a breach of data protection.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 10:40:59 PM by Slartibartfast »

Offline jassi

Re: The investigation into the Smith family's sighting
« Reply #91 on: September 21, 2017, 06:48:05 PM »
As the DVD was released legally, how can this be reconciled with breach of Data Protection ?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: The investigation into the Smith family's sighting
« Reply #92 on: September 21, 2017, 06:59:16 PM »
Leics police set up a Major Incident room, supported by HOLMES, to process all the documentation & messages from the UK end so there was a single database for all UK activity. They also set up one in Portugal, close to the main PJ team,  & had a Portuguese-speaking officer assigned to it (presumably Jose Defreitas)which provided a direct link to the Portuguese investigation.
(See Operation Task debrief page 4 http://library.college.police.uk/docs/npia/Strategic-debrief-operation-task-2009.pdf)

I can still see no reason why the PJ did not have sight of any of the completed questionnaires, given that there were around 21000 pages at the time of the legal summary & we haven't even seen half of them.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm 1st paragraph
"Before actually entering the appreciation of the present inquiry it is useful to take a summarised look at the enormous dimension of the inquiry which is constituted of 17 Volumes, with a global processing of approximately 4500 pages, 9 appendixes that are integrated by 55 Volumes, in which 12000 pages and other relevant pieces were gathered, analysed and treated; further 22 dossiers were constituted, with more than 5000 pages, concerning fanciful or senseless news, yet organised out of mere caution."

I don't see your point in relationship to what I posted.
First para you are telling me something I obviously already knew as I had posted about it earlier.
Second para we don't know they didn't but there are more than enough reasons why they didn't if they didn't
Third para: yeah so there was a lot of bumf flying around ?
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline misty

Re: The investigation into the Smith family's sighting
« Reply #93 on: September 21, 2017, 07:13:50 PM »
I don't see your point in relationship to what I posted.
First para you are telling me something I obviously already knew as I had posted about it earlier.
Second para we don't know they didn't but there are more than enough reasons why they didn't if they didn't
Third para: yeah so there was a lot of bumf flying around ?

I'm blowed if I know what your actual point really is, Alice.

Offline G-Unit

Re: The investigation into the Smith family's sighting
« Reply #94 on: September 21, 2017, 07:28:52 PM »
Leics police set up a Major Incident room, supported by HOLMES, to process all the documentation & messages from the UK end so there was a single database for all UK activity. They also set up one in Portugal, close to the main PJ team,  & had a Portuguese-speaking officer assigned to it (presumably Jose Defreitas)which provided a direct link to the Portuguese investigation.
(See Operation Task debrief page 4 http://library.college.police.uk/docs/npia/Strategic-debrief-operation-task-2009.pdf)

I can still see no reason why the PJ did not have sight of any of the completed questionnaires, given that there were around 21000 pages at the time of the legal summary & we haven't even seen half of them.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm 1st paragraph
"Before actually entering the appreciation of the present inquiry it is useful to take a summarised look at the enormous dimension of the inquiry which is constituted of 17 Volumes, with a global processing of approximately 4500 pages, 9 appendixes that are integrated by 55 Volumes, in which 12000 pages and other relevant pieces were gathered, analysed and treated; further 22 dossiers were constituted, with more than 5000 pages, concerning fanciful or senseless news, yet organised out of mere caution."

It doesn't matter how hard you try, there's no evidence that the PJ had the questionnaires. They are mentioned twice in the files and it's LP officers who mention them, not the PJ. The context in both examples is they are informing the PJ what is in the questionnaires. 

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Offline G-Unit

Re: The investigation into the Smith family's sighting
« Reply #95 on: September 21, 2017, 07:33:54 PM »
At the time those pictures were published, someone inside the PJ was breaching judicial secrecy. That is not the same as the data protection act. The release of Pamela Fenn's statement was a breach of data protection.

If you read the links you would know that the UK tabloids took the pictures from the released files. Who released Mrs Fenn's statement?
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Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: The investigation into the Smith family's sighting
« Reply #96 on: September 21, 2017, 07:35:05 PM »
I'm blowed if I know what your actual point really is, Alice.

Aw! I am sure you do really.
But if not don't worry this is not real life.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline misty

Re: The investigation into the Smith family's sighting
« Reply #97 on: September 21, 2017, 07:55:27 PM »
It doesn't matter how hard you try, there's no evidence that the PJ had the questionnaires. They are mentioned twice in the files and it's LP officers who mention them, not the PJ. The context in both examples is they are informing the PJ what is in the questionnaires.

Equally there is no evidence they weren't given all statements from witnesses in Luz on 3/5/07, without which they could not possibly carry out a proper investigation.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: The investigation into the Smith family's sighting
« Reply #98 on: September 21, 2017, 07:59:42 PM »
Equally there is no evidence they weren't given all statements from witnesses in Luz on 3/5/07, without which they could not possibly carry out a proper investigation.
A summary was probably OK too Misty otherwise they had to translate all that information into Portuguese as well.
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Offline jassi

Re: The investigation into the Smith family's sighting
« Reply #99 on: September 21, 2017, 08:01:54 PM »
A summary was probably OK too Misty otherwise they had to translate all that information into Portuguese as well.

Think of all those opportunities for translation errors.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline misty

Re: The investigation into the Smith family's sighting
« Reply #100 on: September 21, 2017, 08:40:49 PM »
A summary was probably OK too Misty otherwise they had to translate all that information into Portuguese as well.

Not really, Rob. There was documentation in other languages too - was that all summarised? Who would decide what was relevant to the investigation & what could be omitted?

Offline jassi

Re: The investigation into the Smith family's sighting
« Reply #101 on: September 21, 2017, 08:44:22 PM »
Is that not what HOLMES is designed to do - sort out the relevant from the irrelevant and flag it up ?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline misty

Re: The investigation into the Smith family's sighting
« Reply #102 on: September 21, 2017, 08:55:47 PM »
Is that not what HOLMES is designed to do - sort out the relevant from the irrelevant and flag it up ?

If that was the way it worked then it failed dismally in Crecheman's case.

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: The investigation into the Smith family's sighting
« Reply #103 on: September 21, 2017, 09:13:42 PM »
Is that not what HOLMES is designed to do - sort out the relevant from the irrelevant and flag it up ?
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Which then probably requires informed operator intervention. 8(>((
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: The investigation into the Smith family's sighting
« Reply #104 on: September 21, 2017, 09:19:28 PM »
The files: Food for thought:

"There is nothing to stop the file containing a great deal more information than is listed here - for instance copies of the engineering drawings for any bespoke parts could also be included. However, these should not be used to pack the file at the expense of the more relevant information on how the equipment operates and how it meets the safety objectives of the Directives".

 &%+((£
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey