Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Heriberto Janosch on July 04, 2013, 10:42:11 AM
Title: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Heriberto Janosch on July 04, 2013, 10:42:11 AM
MADELEINE MCCANN 1010: On the Madeleine McCann investigation, Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe told BBC London 94.9's Vanessa Feltz show an announcement was to be made at 1400 today and he did not want to pre-empt that.
Heri
Title: Re: IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT TODAY
Post by: sadie on July 04, 2013, 10:54:27 AM
WOW !
Thanks Heri
Wonder what it is?
Title: Re: IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT TODAY
Post by: Carana on July 04, 2013, 11:38:33 AM
Fingers crossed that it's constructive news, whatever it is.
Possibly an official announcement that the joint team has been able to overcome the Catch-22 impasse.
Title: Re: IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT TODAY
Post by: sadie on July 04, 2013, 01:58:16 PM
BBC News?
Title: Re: IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT TODAY
Post by: DCI on July 04, 2013, 02:01:01 PM
Identify 38 people they want to talk to ?>)()<
Title: Re: IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT TODAY
Post by: Mr Moderator on July 04, 2013, 02:02:17 PM
Yes, Met police identify 38 persons of interest which includes 12 UK nationals.
The McCanns will not be making any statements today.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: DCI on July 04, 2013, 02:06:33 PM
McCanns and their friends not inluded in British 12 8@??)(
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: south of the river on July 04, 2013, 02:07:38 PM
just heard on radio that none of the 38 are known to the McCann's - so not sure this includes them and the rest of the Tapas or not
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: DCI on July 04, 2013, 02:09:00 PM
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Heriberto Janosch on July 04, 2013, 02:11:30 PM
Detectives from the Metropolitan Police Service conducting the investigative review into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have now moved to an investigative stage of the inquiry.
Over the past two years the review, whilst not complete, has been in a unique position having drawn together material from the UK, Portugal and Private Investigators from seven different companies. This process has been complex and issues such as translation of material have presented particular challenges. To date some 30,500 documents have entered into the process which has generated in excess of 3,800 actions. The actions that we have completed have generated new findings and new witness evidence.
Our review has sought to prioritise the material, ensuring we are doing everything possible to understand what happened to Madeleine. In the absence of any clear evidence to the contrary we maintain our belief that Madeleine may still be alive.
The MPS has conducted 16 visits to Portugal and we have met and shared our findings with key members of both the Policia Judiciaria and Judicial Authorities. Our relationship is positive and we are grateful for the co-operation we have received thus far.
We are satisfied that our review has now progressed to a position where we have identified 38 persons of interest. These individuals are from a number of European countries and we are now at an advanced stage of dialogue with each country. Over the coming months we will be conducting assertive enquiries, with the assistance of host countries to establish more information about the individuals concerned and any potential involvement.
Twelve of the persons of interest are UK Nationals who we believe were in Portugal at the time Madeleine went missing.
Officers, under Operation Grange, have formally requested the Crown Prosecution Service submit an International Letter of Request to the Portuguese Authorities seeking assistance in obtaining evidence relating to lines of enquiry they wish to pursue. This has been done with the full support of the UK Government.
The MPS has requested, in accordance with accepted Mutual Assistance practice, that a small number of UK officers are present in Portugal whilst the enquiries are undertaken.
The MPS will be as open as our operational priorities allow but in the context of this complex operating environment we appeal for media restraint. There is a real risk that a lack of restraint could serve to seriously undermine our ability to progress.
Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood, heading Operation Grange, said today: "We, and the Portuguese authorities, remain completely committed to finding out what happened to Madeleine, and everything we do is utterly focused on her best interests.
"We continue to believe that there is a possibility that Madeleine is alive.
"It is a positive step in our hunt for Madeleine that our understanding of the evidence has enabled us to shift from review to investigation.
"We have identified 38 persons of interest from a number of European countries. 12 of those people are UK Nationals who we believe were in Portugal at the time Madeleine disappeared.
"Our working relationship with the Portuguese Police is positive and now that we have moved to investigation we are requesting further specific assistance through normal judicial routes.
"We remain in close contact with Kate and Gerry McCann and they are updated on our current position.
"We continue to appeal for information. If you were at the resort of Praia da Luz between 28 April and 3 May 2007, either on holiday or in residence in the resort during this period, particularly in the vicinity of the Ocean Club, and you have not been spoken to by police either here or in Portugal then please call us on 0800 096 1011 if you are within the UK. The number for non-UK residents is +44 20 7158 0126. Alternatively if you do not want to speak to us directly you can contact Crimestoppers on 0800 555 111.”
Title: Re: IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT TODAY
Post by: Angelo222 on July 04, 2013, 02:13:00 PM
Yes, Met police identify 38 persons of interest which includes 12 UK nationals.
The McCanns will not be making any statements today.
Yet more old news rehashed and dressed up intended only to justify the £millions being spent on this fiasco. Must be a police corruption story in the offing? @)(++(*
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Heriberto Janosch on July 04, 2013, 02:31:08 PM
" Parents Gerry and Kate McCann along with their travelling friends known as the 'Tapas Nine' are not suspects "
We disagree on who is responsible for Madeleine's disappearance, but surely one way or the other, all parties to what happened in PDL should be interviewed ?
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Angelo222 on July 04, 2013, 02:39:52 PM
We disagree on who is responsible for Madeleine's disappearance, but surely one way or the other, all parties to what happened in PDL should be interviewed ?
At last you have posted something I can agree with Stephen. It appears child neglect doesn't feature very high up in the Mets priorities though.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: south of the river on July 04, 2013, 02:49:21 PM
it seems tio me that if in the course of the two years SY had found anything - anything atall that implicated the McCann's they would at least have been spoken to under caution
Someone took her - so it makes sense to try and speak properly to everyone who was in and around PDL at the time who they think needs re looked at
Interesting that they didn't name Murat - might just be nothing
but it goes on - lets see what they do next
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: sadie on July 04, 2013, 03:07:12 PM
Angelo
Quote
Quote from: stephen25000 on Today at 02:36:24 PM
Quote
We disagree on who is responsible for Madeleine's disappearance, but surely one way or the other, all parties to what happened in PDL should be interviewed ?
At last you have posted something I can agree with Stephen. It appears child neglect doesn't feature very high up in the Mets priorities though.
Me too. My pleasure to be able to agree with you, Stephen, for a change 8((()*/
All parties should be investigated ... but I would lay my bottom dollar that the Mccanns are totally innocent of anything criminal
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Angelo222 on July 04, 2013, 03:20:51 PM
Maybe the McCann's will be making a contribution to this heroic effort by the Metropolitan Police since after all isn't that why the Madeleine fund was established in the first place??
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: south of the river on July 04, 2013, 03:24:10 PM
I really doubt that SY would be spending the amount of time and money to re open a neglect charge - That boat sailed long ago - This is about trying to find out what happened - if possible
I think whatever side of the fence you are on - the fact that the case is being opened again is good news. There is a chance then that the truth might come out .
I don't think they are involved - but welcome the news . If they are involved then bring it ,
I cant understand all those anti McCann's who are desolate because Gerry and Kate are not being arrested . For goodness sake there are 38 people out there who might reveal something - good news I say
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: DCI on July 04, 2013, 03:33:36 PM
I really doubt that SY would be spending the amount of time and money to re open a neglect charge - That boat sailed long ago - This is about trying to find out what happened - if possible
I think whatever side of the fence you are on - the fact that the case is being opened again is good news. There is a chance then that the truth might come out .
I don't think they are involved - but welcome the news . If they are involved then bring it ,
I cant understand all those anti McCann's who are desolate because Gerry and Kate are not being arrested . For goodness sake there are 38 people out there who might reveal something - good news I say
Spot on, south of the river. 8((()*/
Would some rather not know the truth, or want Madeleine found alive, just to save face?
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 04, 2013, 03:40:04 PM
Would some rather not know the truth, or want Madeleine found alive, just to save face?
On this I want the truth to come out, which ever way it goes.
However, that requires a full investigation with all parties involved.
I still doubt the Portuguese authorities will go the whole hog. The country has a major financial crisis and they won't be spending money on a major investigation.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 04, 2013, 03:45:16 PM
I cant understand all those anti McCann's who are desolate because Gerry and Kate are not being arrested . For goodness sake there are 38 people out there who might reveal something - good news I say
Don't loose time trying to understand a desolation that doesn't exist. What everybody including you wishes to understand is what happened to Madeleine McCann. Those, excluding you, who believe she died 6 years ago would be happy to discover she's been abducted by lovely and loving persons. How could it be another way ? Doubting the McCanns spoke the truth doesn't imply being a child [ censored word ]. Only 60% of the documents reviewed but 38 persons of interest. That's a lot. Has SY elaborated a scenario in which 38 possible perpetrators could fit or are they expecting to investigate 38 storytellers ?
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 04, 2013, 03:53:49 PM
The country has a major financial crisis and they won't be spending money on a major investigation.
The Portugueses aren't going to investigate. They'll support the Met with logistic as did the LC in the rogatory mission under the judicial cooperation in criminal matters.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: DCI on July 04, 2013, 04:00:17 PM
Madeleine McCann: How the British led investigation will operate overseas
Scotland Yard’s decision to launch a full-scale investigation into Madeleine McCann’s disappearance from Portugal throws up a number of potential legal hurdles for detectives to overcome.
While the British police are obviously free to investigate lines of inquiry and suspects in this country, they have no jurisdiction to operate overseas.
However thanks to Mutual Legal Assistance Treaties they can request that their counterparts in other countries carry out investigative work on their behalf.
The British police would have to submit International Letters of Request to the appropriate foreign body, which in the case of Portugal is the judiciary rather than the police.
Those letters are then considered and under EU rules member states are expected to comply.
The Metropolitan Police has already formally requested that the Crown Prosecution Service submit an International Letter of Request to the Portuguese Authorities seeking assistance in obtaining evidence relating to lines of enquiry they wish to pursue.
This has been done with the full support of the British Government and the Portuguese authorities have already signalled their willingness to cooperate.
As the investigation develops it is possible Scotland Yard may wish certain persons of interest to be brought in for questioning or to provide fresh witness statements.
While it would be the home police force that carried out such activities, the Met has already requested that a small team of British officers are on the ground to observe and assist in that process.
In preparation for today’s announcement, senior officers from Operation Grange made 16 visits to Portugal in order to ensure that any potential difficulties were ironed out.
If a British suspect is ever charged with abduction or murder in the case, the law allows them to be tried at the Old Bailey in London, even if the alleged crime took place overseas.
Don't loose time trying to understand a desolation that doesn't exist. What everybody including you wishes to understand is what happened to Madeleine McCann. Those, excluding you, who believe she died 6 years ago would be happy to discover she's been abducted by lovely and loving persons. How could it be another way ? Doubting the McCanns spoke the truth doesn't imply being a child [ censored word ]. Only 60% of the documents reviewed but 38 persons of interest. That's a lot. Has SY elaborated a scenario in which 38 possible perpetrators could fit or are they expecting to investigate 38 storytellers ?
You never know. Maybe they found the fridge.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 04, 2013, 04:33:48 PM
When a high profile captive is at stake, liberation is for evident reasons always breaking news.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Carana on July 04, 2013, 04:39:40 PM
They're high profile persons. Your question was Do you have any particular high-profile captive in mind?
Yes... But in response to your reply, I wondered if you thought that there might have a close connection between "high-profile" captives anywhere in the world and the child's disappearance.
If not, I'm not sure that I follow your earlier comment:
When a high profile captive is at stake, liberation is for evident reasons always breaking news.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 04, 2013, 05:50:24 PM
If not, I'm not sure that I follow your earlier comment:
When a high profile captive is at stake, liberation is for evident reasons always breaking news.
I'm not sure I understand why you didn't.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: DCI on July 04, 2013, 05:58:41 PM
Has this got anything to do with the topic?
Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Or is it a deliberate thread wreck?
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: sadie on July 04, 2013, 06:05:19 PM
We are satisfied that our review has now progressed to a position where we have identified 38 persons of interest. These individuals are from a number of European countries and we are now at an advanced stage of dialogue with each country. Over the coming months we will be conducting assertive enquiries, with the assistance of host countries to establish more information about the individuals concerned and any potential involvement.
Very very interesting .... from a number of European Countries and a very important person one other Country, I suspect
We must wait and see.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Carana on July 04, 2013, 06:11:18 PM
Madeleine McCann: How the British led investigation will operate overseas
Scotland Yard’s decision to launch a full-scale investigation into Madeleine McCann’s disappearance from Portugal throws up a number of potential legal hurdles for detectives to overcome.
While the British police are obviously free to investigate lines of inquiry and suspects in this country, they have no jurisdiction to operate overseas.
However thanks to Mutual Legal Assistance Treaties they can request that their counterparts in other countries carry out investigative work on their behalf.
The British police would have to submit International Letters of Request to the appropriate foreign body, which in the case of Portugal is the judiciary rather than the police.
Those letters are then considered and under EU rules member states are expected to comply.
The Metropolitan Police has already formally requested that the Crown Prosecution Service submit an International Letter of Request to the Portuguese Authorities seeking assistance in obtaining evidence relating to lines of enquiry they wish to pursue.
This has been done with the full support of the British Government and the Portuguese authorities have already signalled their willingness to cooperate.
As the investigation develops it is possible Scotland Yard may wish certain persons of interest to be brought in for questioning or to provide fresh witness statements.
While it would be the home police force that carried out such activities, the Met has already requested that a small team of British officers are on the ground to observe and assist in that process.
In preparation for today’s announcement, senior officers from Operation Grange made 16 visits to Portugal in order to ensure that any potential difficulties were ironed out.
If a British suspect is ever charged with abduction or murder in the case, the law allows them to be tried at the Old Bailey in London, even if the alleged crime took place overseas.
The positive news seems to indeed be that a solution has been found to the Catch-22 dilemma, and that the two countries are cooperating as best they can.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Eleanor on July 04, 2013, 06:12:30 PM
I think this is really good news, and a huge step forward. And Scotland Yard probably already know who they are after. Possibly more than one person. Will the guilty parties run? That would be good.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Carana on July 04, 2013, 06:18:41 PM
Some of the 38 may just be people of interest who they'd like to interview for clarification. It doesn't mean that they are suspects, but may - or may not - have useful information and haven't come forward so far for whatever reason.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: faithlilly on July 04, 2013, 06:18:55 PM
I think this is really good news, and a huge step forward. And Scotland Yard probably already know who they are after. Possibly more than one person. Will the guilty parties run? That would be good.
Or kill the child, if she is not already dead, because they feel the net is closing in ? Would that be 'good' Eleanor because it is certainly likely.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: sadie on July 04, 2013, 06:22:13 PM
I think this is really good news, and a huge step forward. And Scotland Yard probably already know who they are after. Possibly more than one person. Will the guilty parties run? That would be good.
No I want them caught and dealt with.
Broadmoor or regular jail ... for a long time
Keep the children safe.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Eleanor on July 04, 2013, 06:29:46 PM
They can't run far, Sadie. And I doubt that Madeleine is still with the original abductors.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Carana on July 04, 2013, 07:14:41 PM
I find the news to be a step forward in a case involving a complex legal situation.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Redblossom on July 04, 2013, 07:46:37 PM
-38 people the Met want to talk to? That only means potential witnesses or holders of potentially useful information or potential suspects, NOT as the media is reporting widely that there are 38 suspects. Why didnt Redwood/the Met make that clear?
Quote
Over the coming months we will be conducting assertive enquiries, with the assistance of host countries to establish more information about the individuals concerned and any potential involvement.
Graham Wettone @ grahamwettone Surrey Over 30 years policing experience. Police analyst for Sky news and media commentator on policing. Father, football fan and golfer in that order.
Graham Wettone @grahamwettone 5h @guardian they are NOT suspects, quoted as 'persons of interest'. Please report the facts..& show restraint, speculation may harm enquiry. View conversation · Graham Wettone @grahamwettone 5h @mwilliamsthomas will try & get same point across on sky news mark. Very big difference. View conversation · Graham Wettone retweeted Mark Williams-Thomas @mwilliamsthomas 5h The 38 people identified by OpGrange - 12 of which are British nationals are NOT suspects but persons of interest - significant difference
-Can anyone also please provide a source for the widely reported *Mccanns and friends have been completely eliminated* media stories? As opposed to the *Mccanns and friends are not in the list of 38*
-Also does anyone know who the SEVEN private detective agencies the Mccanns used are, as reported on Channel 4 news tonight? And as posted by the Met on their website?
- So basically, no new news, same story as two months ago except the number of people of interest has gone up and the British authorities have sent an official request to ask the Portuguese to help them in Portugal and allow a small team of UK officers to be based in Portugal while they get stuck into the new investigation
- And Redwood saying they have no *clear definitive evidence of death* means there is no body, so the *possibility* remains she is alive Good news overall though, its MOVEMENT
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Jazzy on July 04, 2013, 08:25:25 PM
The Maccanns are not considered as suspects in this new announcement. Just saying. Dogs don't lie, questions are not answered, and there is a reason for that, no evidence.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Redblossom on July 04, 2013, 08:30:34 PM
Maybe the McCann's will be making a contribution to this heroic effort by the Metropolitan Police since after all isn't that why the Madeleine fund was established in the first place??
Pigs may fly, they will keep the money for* awareness campaigns* during and if SY get nowhere, its in the terms, they will never wrap it up, give it away for other causes until the perpetrator is brought to justice, so technically, they may reuse PIs if SY fail to bring a closure
Title: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Heriberto Janosch on July 04, 2013, 10:31:10 PM
1 ...
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Heriberto Janosch on July 04, 2013, 10:31:43 PM
2 ...
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Redblossom on July 04, 2013, 10:33:36 PM
And? Nothing.....
Redwood said SHE MAY be alive, thats all, means nothing over she MAY be dead
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 04, 2013, 10:47:34 PM
It reminds me "the atonement" where Briony Tallis pretends to expiate the horrible accusation of murder she made against her sister's lover inventing a fiction where her victims meet again. A virtual life !
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Heriberto Janosch on July 04, 2013, 11:14:09 PM
Redblossom, Andy Redwood saying the parents and their friends are NOT suspects ...
The Portugueses aren't going to investigate. They'll support the Met with logistic as did the LC in the rogatory mission under the judicial cooperation in criminal matters.
The idea that the Metropolitan Police will be allowed to interrogate anyone or pursue any leads on their own is pure bullshit. They will be merely civilians while in Portugal, glorified bystanders who will only be permitted to stand in the background and watch the PJ do their work.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: John on July 05, 2013, 12:02:35 AM
Just heard Mirror columnist Carole Malone on Sky News criticise the Met Police statement being put about by many of the newspapers to the effect that they think that Madeleine is still alive. What the hell is that all about?
Are they trying to justify their existence or what?
Nobody except Madelines abductor(s) know if she is alive or dead.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Heriberto Janosch on July 05, 2013, 12:10:44 AM
Just heard Mirror columnist Carole Malone on Sky News criticise the Met Police statement being put about by many of the newspapers to the effect that they think that Madeleine is still alive. What the hell is that all about?
Are they trying to justify their existence or what?
Nobody except Madelines abductor(s) know if she is alive or dead.
You are right John !!!!
And we can not talk about "probabilities": she is 100% dead, or 100% alive.
Heri.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: puglove on July 05, 2013, 12:12:27 AM
Just heard Mirror columnist Carole Malone on Sky News criticise the Met Police statement being put about by many of the newspapers to the effect that they think that Madeleine is still alive. What the hell is that all about?
Are they trying to justify their existence or what?
Nobody except Madelines abductor(s) know if she is alive or dead.
Sigh.
Carole Mallone is yet another one of those dreadful, cheap-shot press harpies, who will sell their soul for free botox or a headline. Think Liz Jones, without the horses and the annoying, fat Indian 3 second husband.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Matthew Wyse on July 05, 2013, 12:19:45 AM
She might very well be just that shona but she has sized up the Mets rubbish statement very nicely. 8@??)(
Carole Mallone is yet another one of those dreadful, cheap-shot press harpies, who will sell their soul for free botox or a headline. Think Liz Jones, without the horses and the annoying, fat Indian 3 second husband.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 05, 2013, 12:28:45 AM
Just heard Mirror columnist Carole Malone on Sky News criticise the Met Police statement being put about by many of the newspapers to the effect that they think that Madeleine is still alive. What the hell is that all about?
Are they trying to justify their existence or what?
Nobody except Madelines abductor(s) know if she is alive or dead.
According to common sense resilience at that age is null, except for those who believe in decent people buying a child, as if it wasn't antithetic.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: John on July 05, 2013, 12:35:04 AM
And we can not talk about "probabilities": she is 100% dead, or 100% alive.
Heri.
I fail to see why the Met have made this announcement today unless of course it is all simply a PR exercise intended to gain some badly needed brownie points after the Stephen Lawrence revelations earlier this week.
Would they not have been better to have got on with the investigation in secret instead of plastering their plans all over the British Press?
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: puglove on July 05, 2013, 12:36:42 AM
She might very well be just that shona but she has sized up the Mets rubbish statement very nicely. 8@??)(
Hmm. I'm sure you're right. But it's time that the ridiculous Witchfinder mentality stopped now. The McCanns have no idea what happened to their daughter, the police at the time were bloody hopeless, and Scotland Yard are just going through the motions. The whole world is desperately sorry for the McCanns, and Kerry Needham. It's just all too late.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Benice on July 05, 2013, 12:40:57 AM
The idea that the Metropolitan Police will be allowed to interrogate anyone or pursue any leads on their own is pure bullshit. They will be merely civilians while in Portugal, glorified bystanders who will only be permitted to stand in the background and watch the PJ do their work.
I think a lot will now depend on the relationship the UK police have built up with their Portuguese counterparts over the last 2 years - which from what we hear is a good one. IMO It was clear that Amaral bitterly resented the involvement of the UK police - and indeed was quite paranoid about them - an attitude which would not be condusive to collaberation or co-operation during the enquiry. With him totally out of the picture, I don't think that has been the case between SY and their counterparts in Portugal. In fact probably quite the opposite.
IMO.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: John on July 05, 2013, 12:41:17 AM
I hope you're wrong Shona but I fear you might be spot on. 8(8-))
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: John on July 05, 2013, 12:45:03 AM
I think a lot will now depend on the relationship the UK police have built up with their Portuguese counterparts over the last 2 years - which from what we hear is a good one. IMO It was clear that Amaral bitterly resented the involvement of the UK police - and indeed was quite paranoid about them - an attitude which would not be condusive to collaberation or co-operation during the enquiry. With him totally out of the picture, I don't think that has been the case between SY and their counterparts in Portugal. In fact probably quite the opposite.
IMO.
The last thing the PJ want now is for the British Met Police to show them up. Sad but true.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Matthew Wyse on July 05, 2013, 12:51:08 AM
Former coordinator Goncao Amaral might very well be out of the formal investigation but many of his officers who were involved are still there and will be loyal to him even now. An axe to grind comes to mind.
I think a lot will now depend on the relationship the UK police have built up with their Portuguese counterparts over the last 2 years - which from what we hear is a good one. IMO It was clear that Amaral bitterly resented the involvement of the UK police - and indeed was quite paranoid about them - an attitude which would not be condusive to collaberation or co-operation during the enquiry. With him totally out of the picture, I don't think that has been the case between SY and their counterparts in Portugal. In fact probably quite the opposite.
IMO.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 05, 2013, 12:54:19 AM
I think a lot will now depend on the relationship the UK police have built up with their Portuguese counterparts over the last 2 years - which from what we hear is a good one. IMO It was clear that Amaral bitterly resented the involvement of the UK police - and indeed was quite paranoid about them - an attitude which would not be condusive to collaberation or co-operation during the enquiry. With him totally out of the picture, I don't think that has been the case between SY and their counterparts in Portugal. In fact probably quite the opposite.
IMO.
Forget inspector Amaral, your dearest black sheep. What about the relationships between inspector Rebelo and the McCanns ? What can you extrapolate from them ?
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 05, 2013, 12:56:09 AM
Former coordinator Goncao Amaral might very well be out of the formal investigation but many of his officers who were involved are still there and will be loyal to him even now. An axe to grind comes to mind.
The UK tabloids with their amazing insults certainly favoured that loyalty.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: puglove on July 05, 2013, 12:57:05 AM
I hope you're wrong Shona but I fear you might be spot on. 8(8-))
Six years, sightings of a man carrying the poor little baby away, spiteful folk muddying the waters, and Kate McCann growing frailer and more desperate by the day. Desperate torture of a (admittedly smug) couple who basically f..ked up, like we all do. And paid the ultimate price.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 05, 2013, 12:58:47 AM
The last thing the PJ want now is for the British Met Police to show them up. Sad but true.
This is true John, but a diplomatic approach could avoid that - and I'm sure Portugal as a modern democracy would want to show the world how serious they are about solving crime - especially crimes against children in their country.
I truly believe that in the past such crimes were deliberately kept out of the public domain - because of the impact they would have on the tourist industry.
Portugal urgently needs to change it's Secrecy Laws IMO.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: puglove on July 05, 2013, 01:12:33 AM
Yes. Sorry, Anne, I have no idea which side you're on (apparently there are two - Mccann [ censored word ]s and Mccann supporters, both are spurious considering that a tiny child was taken while her parents over-indulged) but I do believe that Madeleine paid the ultimate price. And I struggle with the tennis lessons, jogging, and Kate's insistence that we read about her sex life with Gerry. God forbid, if I lost a child I would struggle with breathing. I probably wouldn't publish a book and tell the world that I felt the need to resume a healthy sex life.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: John on July 05, 2013, 01:18:31 AM
The Portuguese are a very proud people, the GNR and especially the PJ will be extremely resentful at having to play second fiddle to a foreign police force on their patch...a fact of life unfortunately.
The damage done to tourism on the Algarve by the McCann case was widespread. What really astounds me is the timing of this announcement by the Met which couldn't have come at a worst time for Portugal given the imminent tourist season.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 05, 2013, 01:19:21 AM
Yes. Sorry, Anne, I have no idea which side you're on (apparently there are two - Mccann [ censored word ]s and Mccann supporters, both are spurious considering that a tiny child was taken while her parents over-indulged) but I do believe that Madeleine paid the ultimate price. And I struggle with the tennis lessons, jogging, and Kate's insistence that we read about her sex life with Gerry. God forbid, if I lost a child I would struggle with breathing. I probably wouldn't publish a book and tell the world that I felt the need to resume a healthy sex life.
I totally agree with you, Shona. I'm no [ censored word ] nor supporter of the McCanns, I feel like living in another world. But how can I judge them ? I know that, as the poet said, "human kind cannot bear too much reality". And I can't go on neglecting that, however painful this is.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: puglove on July 05, 2013, 01:21:30 AM
I'm very interested in knowing why you're sure of that.
Oh, hush. I'm not Ann Eaton on the blue forum, and I have no agenda on here. If only you weird b....rs could pull your heads out of your arses, you might realise that whoever took Maddie had a key, and knowledge of the compound. It's not rocket science.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 05, 2013, 01:36:57 AM
The Portuguese are a very proud people, the GNR and especially the PJ will be extremely resentful at having to play second fiddle to a foreign police force on their patch...a fact of life unfortunately.
The damage done to tourism on the Algarve by the McCann case was widespread. What really astounds me is the timing of this announcement by the Met which couldn't have come at a worst time for Portugal given the imminent tourist season.
I don't agree, John. I've lived in Portugal for 33 years and I had no preparation at all to their mentality, having a Calvinist education, though the spirit which animated the great discoveries wasn't unfamiliar to me. Raul Ruiz once called the Portuguese "the athletes of the low profile", and this is very right. They're proud, yes and luckily, but they'll accept (the fatum) whatever SY will discover if and only if the AG's conclusion isn't just thrown to the garbage bin : no evidence of the crime that resulted in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann has been found. On the tourist topic, serious sociological studies deny any relation between the diminution of mass tourism and the McCann case. The global tendency is towards residence tourism, people (like the Smith family) having a double residence. If you wish, I have a good link (in French).
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: puglove on July 05, 2013, 01:38:40 AM
Well, I'm done. If you love and value your children, watch them, talk to them, show them your happy face, share all your little secrets. Don't stick them into a "kid's club" while you over-indulge, wank about and play tennis. And jog. Sorry to be an uber-bitch, but children are only small for a very short time. You will never get those golden moments back. And if your little girl cries, and begs you to be there.....be there. Don't leave her to cry. On her own. And worry about her siblings.
Be a f..king parent.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 05, 2013, 01:42:19 AM
Oh, hush. I'm not Ann Eaton on the blue forum, and I have no agenda on here. If only you weird b....rs could pull your heads out of your ar..s, you might realise that whoever took Maddie had a key, and knowledge of the compound. It's not rocket science.
What's b...rs ? and ar..s ? What is the meaning of writing the first and last letters ? It's segregative. Who is Ann Eaton ? And who is whoever took Madeleine ? The PGR's report doesn't say so.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Benice on July 05, 2013, 02:44:44 AM
Well, I'm done. If you love and value your children, watch them, talk to them, show them your happy face, share all your little secrets. Don't stick them into a "kid's club" while you over-indulge, wank about and play tennis. And jog. Sorry to be an uber-bitch, but children are only small for a very short time. You will never get those golden moments back. And if your little girl cries, and begs you to be there.....be there. Don't leave her to cry. On her own. And worry about her siblings.
Be a f..king parent.
I can identify with much of what you say Shona . However, I also am aware that parents make mistakes.
A million loving parents may leave their beloved child splashing in the bath while they go to answer the phone or a knock at the door, and 999,999 of them will return to find their child still splashing happily in the bath. One of them will find their child dead.
No way would I dream of condemning that parent, even though theoretically they are responsible. It's called 'human error' and the reason it is such a univerally recognised phrase is because 'human error' is common not rare.
For some inexplicable reason the McCanns have been exclusively denied from being allowed to be guilty of human error by some people. I will never understand that mindset.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Eleanor on July 05, 2013, 08:59:38 AM
This is interesting. The PJ Counter Terrorism Unit have recovered an abducted child in just two days. So it seems that Portugal are rethinking their stance on Child Abduction. This is very heartening and shows great willingness to improve how they handle this awful problem.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 05, 2013, 10:03:33 AM
The Ministerio Publico hasn't yet received the rogatory letters, but explains here how the cooperation will be. Basically the PJ will do for SY what the LC did in April 2008 (after an agreement of the HO that took 5 months to obtain). http://www.publico.pt/sociedade/noticia/scotland-yard-diz-que-ha-uma-possibilidade-de-madeleine-mccann-estar-viva-1599257 I can't post a google translation without correcting it and I'm in a hurry !
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: John on July 05, 2013, 10:21:11 AM
Bing translation...
The British police opened a new investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann in Portugal. In a press release, researchers from Scotland Yard announced that they want to hear 38 people of different nationalities who were in Portugal at the time Maddie disappeared in May 2007.
This "new line of inquiry" results of the review, in the last two years, the Portuguese original research, which is officially closed and which involved the analysis of documents and has 3,800 30,500 shares, during which "were discovered new evidence and new witnesses".
In the note placed on your site, ensuring that researchers are doing their utmost to realize what happened to Maddie. "In the absence of evidence to the contrary, we maintain the belief that Madeleine can continue living", reads the document.
Praising the cooperation of police and judicial authorities in Portugal during the 11 visits that have the Portugal, British researchers say being in dialogue with the authorities of the various countries from which are natural the 38 people who import to British police.
Of these, 12 are from the United Kingdom and would be in Portugal at the time of the child's disappearance. "We continue to believe in the possibility of Madeleine continue alive," insisted thep chief inspector Andy Redwood, in the said note.
The parents and another Briton, Robert Murat, have been accused by Portuguese judicial authorities constituted in July 2007. However, a year later, the Attorney General determined the archiving of suspicions, which dictated the end of investigations.
The British authorities have requested now permission for some British agents may go to Portugal to advance research. The pursuit of interrogations implies a reopening of the investigation, something that the Portuguese authorities have refused to do.
Contacted by the public, the Attorney General of the Republic (PGR) explains, by email, to get evidence in Portugal the British authorities have to submit a request for mutual legal assistance in criminal matters, commonly known as the letters rogatory, which hasn't happened yet. "Has not yet received any request for mutual legal assistance in criminal matters", ensures the Public Ministry.
The PGR recalls that efforts will have to be authorized by the Portuguese judicial authorities, which are the only responsible for the execution of the request "as sovereign authorities that are". And added: "the British police will not be able to drive any interrogation or provide any diligence, motu proprio, in Portugal".
The full public Ministry that British authorities "cannot act alone in Portugal". "Can, Yes, request that is allowed to move to Portugal for coadjuvarem the Portuguese authorities in the implementation of the aforementioned request for mutual legal assistance in criminal matters, under participation of coadjuvação".
The Scotland Yard team was formed to review the case last year, at the request of the Prime Minister, David Cameron. The analysis of clues and documents cost, according to the local press, more than two million pounds (2.34 million euros).
In the document, the Scotland Yard asks to all who were in Praia da Luz between April 28 and May 3, 2007, "particularly in the vicinity of the Ocean Club", which come with contact to the +44 207 15 number 80126, if they have not come to talk to the police.
News updated at 5:25 pm: adds position of Attorney-General of the Republic
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: John on July 05, 2013, 11:18:11 AM
Cynical or not, it has now become clear why the Met chose to release the Madeleine news now. An Inquiry into the shooting of Azelle Rodney has found that he was unlawfully killed by Met officer referred to as E7. Azelle was summarily executed when he was shot no less than 8 times at close range.
Sounds like the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes all over again.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: faithlilly on July 05, 2013, 11:26:59 AM
Cynical or not, it has now become clear why the Met chose to release the Madeleine news now. An Inquiry into the shooting of Ezelle Rodney has found that he was unlawfully killed by Met officer referred to as E7. Ezelle was summarily executed when he was shot no less than 8 times at close range.
Sounds like the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes all over again.
A good day to bury bad news !
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Sandy on July 05, 2013, 11:38:02 AM
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Carana on July 05, 2013, 12:42:29 PM
Perhaps it was a good time to bury bad news... or perhaps the issues concerning the way forward have only just been resolved.
Even in the former case, I still find it good news that legal obstacles seem to have been overcome and that the review is moving on to a more concrete investigative phase.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 05, 2013, 01:26:19 PM
Contacted by "O Publico", the Attorney General of the Republic (PGR) office explains, by email, that in order to get evidence in Portugal the British authorities have to submit a request for mutual legal assistance in criminal matters, commonly known as rogatory letter, which hasn't yet occurred. "We haven't yet received any request for mutual legal assistance", says the Public Ministry.
The PGR office recalls that interventions will have to be authorized by the Portuguese judicial authorities, which are the only responsible for the execution of the request, "being sovereign authorities". And they clarify : "the British police will not be able to direct any interview or realize any intervention, motu proprio (on its own impulse), in Portugal".
The Public Ministry finally points out that British authorities "cannot act alone in Portugal". "They may request to be allowed to stay in Portugal in order to collaborate with the Portuguese authorities in implementing the mentioned mutual legal assistance, their participation being limited to cooperation."
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Carana on July 05, 2013, 01:37:37 PM
Contacted by "O Publico", the Attorney General of the Republic (PGR) office explains, by email, that in order to get evidence in Portugal the British authorities have to submit a request for mutual legal assistance in criminal matters, commonly known as rogatory letter, which hasn't yet occurred. "We haven't yet received any request for mutual legal assistance", says the Public Ministry.
The PGR office recalls that interventions will have to be authorized by the Portuguese judicial authorities, which are the only responsible for the execution of the request, "being sovereign authorities". And they clarify : "the British police will not be able to direct any interview or realize any intervention, motu proprio (on its own impulse), in Portugal".
The Public Ministry finally points out that British authorities "cannot act alone in Portugal". "They may request to be allowed to stay in Portugal in order to collaborate with the Portuguese authorities in implementing the mentioned mutual legal assistance, their participation being limited to cooperation."
Well, that would seem fairly obvious.
Did anyone seriously think that the Met was about to invade Portugal?
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 05, 2013, 01:52:52 PM
Did anyone seriously think that the Met was about to invade Portugal?
There's nothing "fairly obvious", it is just judicial cooperation ! No State having signed the Convention can refuse to give assistance, but they can delay, as the Home Office did in 2008. Are you seriously wondering whether the AG thought the Met was about to invade Portugal ?
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Redblossom on July 05, 2013, 02:01:34 PM
It seems the PT authorities have not been officially been approached yet, although its been nearly three months now that the CPS went over there, Andy Redwood says here, something near the beginning, that they will *shortly* be serving a request (around 50 seconds in)
And what is that bit at the end? They hope to get a *resolution* but whether the case can be *solved* is a different matter. Wasnt he saying last year he was confident they could solve the case? Eta: Ah he means no guarantee of solving it after following these new lines of inquiry, but hoping to move it on, my bad
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: John on July 05, 2013, 02:03:26 PM
Contacted by "O Publico", the Attorney General of the Republic (PGR) office explains, by email, that in order to get evidence in Portugal the British authorities have to submit a request for mutual legal assistance in criminal matters, commonly known as rogatory letter, which hasn't yet occurred. "We haven't yet received any request for mutual legal assistance", says the Public Ministry.
The PGR office recalls that interventions will have to be authorized by the Portuguese judicial authorities, which are the only responsible for the execution of the request, "being sovereign authorities". And they clarify : "the British police will not be able to direct any interview or realize any intervention, motu proprio (on its own impulse), in Portugal".
The Public Ministry finally points out that British authorities "cannot act alone in Portugal". "They may request to be allowed to stay in Portugal in order to collaborate with the Portuguese authorities in implementing the mentioned mutual legal assistance, their participation being limited to cooperation."
The idea that the Metropolitan Police will be allowed to interrogate anyone or pursue any leads on their own is pure bullshit. They will be merely civilians while in Portugal, glorified bystanders who will only be permitted to stand in the background and watch the PJ do their work.
And what is that bit at the end? They hope to get a *resolution* but whether the case can be *solved* is a different matter. Wasn't he saying last year he was confident they could solve the case?
A resolution without solving it? 8-)(--)
Don't you just lurve those videos Redblossom? 8@??)(
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Redblossom on July 05, 2013, 02:17:15 PM
And what is that bit at the end? They hope to get a *resolution* but whether the case can be *solved* is a different matter. Wasnt he saying last year he was confident they could solve the case? Eta: Ah he means no guarantee of solving it after following these new lines of inquiry, but hoping to move it on, my bad
That "bit" at the end is a piece of anthology ! As headlong rush, who does better ?
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Carana on July 05, 2013, 05:17:06 PM
There's nothing "fairly obvious", it is just judicial cooperation ! No State having signed the Convention can refuse to give assistance, but they can delay, as the Home Office did in 2008. Are you seriously wondering whether the AG thought the Met was about to invade Portugal ?
Not the AG.
But I don't trust the tabloids not to stir up xenophobic hysteria.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 05, 2013, 05:39:47 PM
But I don't trust the tabloids not to stir up xenophobic hysteria.
Then who did you suspect of being paranoiac and fear a Met invasion ? And which tabloids are you referring to ? I sent an article from Publico, this isn't a tabloid.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Redblossom on July 05, 2013, 05:53:01 PM
Is it right that the UK police can investigate what they want while in the UK, but anythng done in Portugal requires the PT police to do so, at the request of the UK,with the UK police sitting in?
Also Redwood when asked said the Tapas Nine were not persons of interest or suspects, as if, if they were, he would say yes they are @)(++(*
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 05, 2013, 08:42:48 PM
It has to be abduction and/or murder, though the most likely danger for a child left alone at home is an accident. But this is eliminated a priori.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Redblossom on July 05, 2013, 08:55:52 PM
It has to be abduction and/or murder, though the most likely danger for a child left alone at home is an accident. But this is eliminated a priori.
Interesting, the DI says three scenarios, abduction (mccanns view) or abduction/murder(pj view) or murder on its own (whose view?)
What stranger would just go in and murder a child? And leave her there? and for ehat purpose, besides no body was found and abduction doesnt figure in the third possibility. Is he saying its possible one of the group murdered her? Anyway that is what I understood from that interview.
you are right anne, no thought given to accidental death and concealment
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 05, 2013, 09:08:27 PM
Interesting, the DI says three scenarios, abduction (mccanns view) or abduction/murder(pj view) or murder on its own (whose view?)
What stranger would just go in and murder a child? And leave her there? and for ehat purpose, besides no body was found and abduction doesnt figure in the third possibility. Is he saying its possible one of the group murdered her? Anyway that is what I understood from that interview.
you are right anne, no thought given to accidental death and concealment
Have you noticed how he says "murder" ? Have you also noticed how some people here insist in making believe sceptics accuse the McCanns of murder ? Obviously the DI is at ease when speaking of abduction with or without murder. This is clearly politically correct. The McCanns could eventually be suspected of staging an abduction to conceal an accident off the limits of responsible parenting, but think of all those who believed them ! Could they afford having been fooled ?
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Redblossom on July 05, 2013, 09:17:08 PM
Have you noticed how he says "murder" ? Have you also noticed how some people here insist in making believe sceptics accuse the McCanns of murder ? Obviously the DI is at ease when speaking of abduction with or without murder. This is clearly politically correct. The McCanns could eventually be suspected of staging an abduction to conceal an accident off the limits of responsible parenting, but think of all those who believed them ! Could they afford having been fooled ?
Dozens of people would lose face if the mccanns were found to be involved, a good reason for the british establishment to cover up the potential scenario of accident and concealment as concluded by the PJ in sept 07
THen again dozens have lost face in the recent outing of the police corruption in the Hilsborough disaster and recent shaming of UK police in the Stepehen Lawrence murder,shame it takes 20 odd years for truth to come to light, heres praying ALL comes to light in THIS case PDQ and not have odious prime ministers sticking slapping orders on files not being released for 100 or x y z years, as Blair did when David Kelly was found DEAD, probably by HIS nasty evil hand to his or others involvement in pushing an illegal war against iraq
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: sadie on July 06, 2013, 12:05:48 AM
I think there are people on here who will live to regret their accusations and sometimes hidden libels ?>)()<
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Rachel Granada on July 06, 2013, 10:57:49 AM
I think there are people on here who will live to regret their accusations and sometimes hidden libels ?>)()<
Maybe so, Sadie .... especially now that the Yard have stated in crystal clear terms that the McCanns and friends have been ruled out.
DCI Redwood rocks!
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Mrs. B on July 06, 2013, 02:32:43 PM
So what exactly did Redwood state? Did he state that he BELIEVED the McCanns and their travelling friends are NOT suspects or did he state that they ARE NOT suspects?
The last alternative would imply that they have evidence that rule out the parents & their friends, so maybe at one point we could actually reach the stage where we could look at the files again & see what possible alternatives there could be?
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 06, 2013, 02:53:37 PM
You'll admit that Mr Redwood's "hope to get a resolution but whether the case can be solved is a different matter" doesn't sound appropriate and encouraging. Anyhow, let's wish Mr Redwood will found the evidence needed to back up his and your convictions.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Mrs. B on July 06, 2013, 02:57:05 PM
No, he doesn't have to back up anything to YOU as he has no report duty to you or any other of the so called "sceptics". This is not a detective story, this is a criminal investigation. You just have to accept the findings of the people with law enforcement authority, as other law abiding citizen are obliged to do.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 06, 2013, 03:04:07 PM
No, he doesn't have to back up anything to YOU as he has no report duty to you or any other of the so called "sceptics". This is not a detective story, this is a criminal investigation. You just have to accept the findings of the people with law enforcement authority, as other law abiding citizen are obliged to do.
Everybody will accept the findings of SY when they come, if they come. They'll have to be proved as any criminal investigation requires. For now we do have to rely on the Portuguese AG who directed the investigation : the nature of the crime that affected Madeleine McCann couldn't be determined. Do you contest the AG report ? Do you think that, if Mr Redwood says "Madeleine was murdered" without proving it, it is enough to establish she was ? I hope not.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Mrs. B on July 06, 2013, 03:12:25 PM
No, we don't have to rely solely on the AG now, the investigation in Portugal was shelved in 2008 & found no incriminating evidence against the parents or Murat, or anyone else for that matter. Nothing more has happened in Portugal since then. Now NSY has taken over and are moving FORWARD with the case as is clear to see for anyone who can read.
They are investigating the case NOW, i.e. a stranger abduction & they have now also officially said that the parents & their friends are NOT suspect.
Those are the facts as we know them today.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 06, 2013, 03:32:08 PM
I hope the AG will not see that, Mrs B, because this is pure contempt and who are you to contempt a Portuguese authority ? Now, may be not to-morrow, his report is the only reasonable conclusion, whether you like it or not. The question of the McCanns being suspects or not does'nt matter. I do speak of the fate of Madeleine McCann, the only important point.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 06, 2013, 03:33:45 PM
SCOTLAND Yard detectives who believe Madeleine could still be alive want to trace five mysterious strangers spotted in Praia da Luz around the time of her abduction
The five are among 38 potential new suspects including 12 Brits.
One is “Bundle Man” who was seen by the McCanns’ pal Jane Tanner carrying a sleeping girl away from their apartment at around 9.15pm on the night Madeleine disappeared.
He could also be “Rude Man” who ignored an Irish family’s attempts to chat as he passed them carrying a pyjama-clad girl towards the beach around 10pm that night.
Another is “Creepy Man” who days earlier scared British holidaymaker Gail Cooper when he demanded charity cash for an orphanage that did not exist.
She later saw the Mexican-moustached stranger watching children on the beach.
A fourth was dubbed “Spotty Man” after he was seen five times in the four days before Madeleine disappeared apparently watching their apartment.
A fifth, “Photo Man”, was spotted pictures of children near the beach in nearby Sagres.
I hope the AG will not see that, Mrs B, because this is pure contempt and who are you to contempt a Portuguese authority ? Now, may be not to-morrow, his report is the only reasonable conclusion, whether you like it or not. The question of the McCanns being suspects or not does'nt matter. I do speak of the fate of Madeleine McCann, the only important point.
What do you mean by "contempt"? By whom towards whom?
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Mrs. B on July 06, 2013, 04:15:06 PM
I hope the AG will not see that, Mrs B, because this is pure contempt and who are you to contempt a Portuguese authority ? Now, may be not to-morrow, his report is the only reasonable conclusion, whether you like it or not. The question of the McCanns being suspects or not does'nt matter. I do speak of the fate of Madeleine McCann, the only important point.
No, it certainly isn't contempt. The case was shelved, NSY has now taken over & is continuing where the PJ either left off or failed. The PJ were not anywhere near to finding out what happened to Madeleine, NSY seems her ONLY hope & it is in HER interest that they continue the investigation until answers are found.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: John on July 06, 2013, 04:19:50 PM
Six years on I fear the five men of interest have either died or left the area a long time ago. The chances of the Met finding anything of interest in Praia da Luz at this stage is simply pie in the sky.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Mrs. B on July 06, 2013, 04:26:32 PM
Why would they have died? Didn't see anyone of the people described in the files as potential suspects being reported to be of particularly advanced age or of particularly bad health.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: DCI on July 06, 2013, 04:35:27 PM
Six years on I fear the five men of interest have either died or left the area a long time ago. The chances of the Met finding anything of interest in Praia da Luz at this stage is simply pie in the sky.
They might, they might not, find anything of interest John. Its nice to know someone is doing something, to help find Madeleine. After all, what was actually done from 2008 by the PJ?
More harm than good, was caused by deliberate leaks, lies, and misinformation. Who did all that, and for what reasons?
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: John on July 06, 2013, 04:47:05 PM
Why would they have died? Didn't see anyone of the people described in the files as potential suspects being reported to be of particularly advanced age or of particularly bad health.
We know of at least one British paedophile who was in PDL on the day in question who is now deceased. There could well be others.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Mrs. B on July 06, 2013, 04:54:14 PM
That is true, Hewlett died a few years later of cancer, he was not ill while he was in the Algarve at the time the McCanns were there. So yes, I suppose others could have succumbed to deadly diseases too.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Eleanor on July 06, 2013, 04:56:57 PM
I'm not dead. Far from it. And I was old six years ago.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Mrs. B on July 06, 2013, 04:58:10 PM
I'm not dead. Far from it. And I was old six years ago.
LOL Glad to hear it!
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: John on July 06, 2013, 06:26:38 PM
Yes but you are probably a young chick Eleanor 8(0(* If a suspect was 60 or more some six years ago... well you get what I mean, chances are you are dead or have dementia.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Eleanor on July 06, 2013, 06:35:24 PM
Yes but you are probably a young chick Eleanor 8(0(* If a suspect was 60 or more some six years ago... well you get what I mean, chances are you are dead or have dementia.
Excuse me. I was more than 60 or more six years ago.
Not sure about the dementia. I'll let you know, if I remember.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Mrs. B on July 06, 2013, 06:42:13 PM
LOL You get dementia at 66???? One year after retirement age? I know quite a few people over 60, some a lot older, none of them are suffering from dementia. 80 - 90 yeah, OK, but not people in their 60s.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Eleanor on July 06, 2013, 06:50:00 PM
LOL You get dementia at 66???? One year after retirement age? I know quite a few people over 60, some a lot older, none of them are suffering from dementia. 80 - 90 yeah, OK, but not people in their 60s.
It has been known, Mrs. B. I can think of a few people of 60 odd who appear to have lost their minds.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: DCI on July 06, 2013, 06:55:40 PM
LOL You get dementia at 66???? One year after retirement age? I know quite a few people over 60, some a lot older, none of them are suffering from dementia. 80 - 90 yeah, OK, but not people in their 60s.
Extremely unsettling but unfortunately it may be exactly what they are up against.
Do you believe in the why do simple when you can do complicated ? Even in novels there's no history of abductor walking up and down carrying his/her prey almost an hour after having stolen, risking his/her head because checking occurs thrice on a half hour basis.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Mrs. B on July 07, 2013, 12:07:26 AM
Perhaps you should stop reading so much fantasy stories, you seem to have a problem distinguishing between fact & fiction.
Do you believe in the why do simple when you can do complicated ? Even in novels there's no history of abductor walking up and down carrying his/her prey almost an hour after having stolen, risking his/her head because checking occurs thrice on a half hour basis.
Checking EVERY half hour and more
8.30 arrived at restaurant Checked by sound 9pm Sound not good enough for Gerry, so he personally checked at 9/05 -9.12ish visual check of room ( unhappily not Madeleine) soon after 9.30 Kate check at 10.00pm . Finds Madeleine gone
Why do you word your post to make it sound as though there were only three checks all evening, with no reference to the time period?
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Benice on July 07, 2013, 12:16:30 AM
Do you believe in the why do simple when you can do complicated ? Even in novels there's no history of abductor walking up and down carrying his/her prey almost an hour after having stolen, risking his/her head because checking occurs thrice on a half hour basis.
Why do you find it so hard to believe that the abductor may have been holed up somewhere for a considerable time waiting for instructions? As not a single person between Jane Tanner seeing him and the Smith sighting have come forward to say they saw him - then it is virtually impossible IMO that he spent that 45 mins openly walking around PdL with a child in his arms without other people seeing him. It's not rocket science.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Eleanor on July 07, 2013, 12:24:30 AM
It seems quite simple to me. The abductor won't have known if he was going to be successful until it was done, so he will have hidden somewhere until final arrangements could be made, like a small boat coming into the beach to collect him. And he won't have wanted to hang around on the beach for half an hour.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: sadie on July 07, 2013, 12:43:52 AM
A very elite man has a sexual need/want for little ones. A new one every two years. Through this, and his abductions, he gets into trouble with the Authorities. A very influential whiter than white group use a BIG, much trusted name within their group, to get him released. They do this in exchange for his passing his little ones on after he has finished with them ... and help with trafficking
Human trafficking is what, unhappily, I seem to have uncovered. Either that, or the gathering of a pool of children for the wants/needs of a certain select group at the initial stages. Later, maybe, using the abused children for blackmail, or other moneymaking purposes?
I have very strong pointers to a certain man, but atm the trafficking part is not totally clear. I feel sure that not everything that I have found will be correct .... but much of it has been confirmed by an unusual source. Sorry I can't share.
SY are aware, with all the pointers and details
Tin hat on. Am bunkered down.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: sadie on July 07, 2013, 12:44:55 AM
It seems quite simple to me. The abductor won't have known if he was going to be successful until it was done, so he will have hidden somewhere until final arrangements could be made, like a small boat coming into the beach to collect him. And he won't have wanted to hang around on the beach for half an hour.
8((()*/ exactly Eleanor, altho i see another alternative too.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 07, 2013, 12:49:07 AM
Why do you find it so hard to believe that the abductor may have been holed up somewhere for a considerable time waiting for instructions? As not a single person between Jane Tanner seeing him and the Smith sighting have come forward to say they saw him - then it is virtually impossible IMO that he spent that 45 mins openly walking around PdL with a child in his arms without other people seeing him. It's not rocket science.
I don't know what rocket science is, Benice, but plausibility says no, except for a pieds nickelés' adventure. Nobody will buy this scenario. Remember abduction was planned as if Madeleine was exceptional (apart of being so for her parents) or a Picasso !
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Eleanor on July 07, 2013, 12:53:35 AM
Why do you find it so hard to believe that the abductor may have been holed up somewhere for a considerable time waiting for instructions? As not a single person between Jane Tanner seeing him and the Smith sighting have come forward to say they saw him - then it is virtually impossible IMO that he spent that 45 mins openly walking around PdL with a child in his arms without other people seeing him. It's not rocket science.
OC Staff quarters are only about 50 metres up the road from the Peter Smith sighting. He could very easily have ben holed up there. THe Staff quarters are set back from the road on its western side. There were buildings obscuring the view, So if he left there it would not have been visible to Peter Smith.
Sorry to keep repeating it, but according to a poster on the 3A's forum, a scream was heard coming from there.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: sadie on July 07, 2013, 12:56:02 AM
When ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise, Sadie.
8((()*/ must stop laughing.
Sorry Anne ?>)()<
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: sadie on July 07, 2013, 01:16:55 AM
We were saying that ?bundleman may well have been holed up somewhere and was awaiting a signal that a boat was about to arrive for pick up.
I suggested the OC Staff quarters. They were just up the road from Peter Smith. Also I am inclined to think that bundlemman had a lifter to help him, .... staff from OC probably .... with access to a key to appartment 5A
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 07, 2013, 01:26:10 AM
Ariadne ? Why not you, Sadie ! Prepare the thread !
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: sadie on July 07, 2013, 01:47:01 AM
I am not a Greek scholar, Anne, and I think it highly unlikely that many on here are
However ARIADNE = Goddess wife of Dionysus
Now am I to suspect that you know quite a bit about this whole thing that you are not telling? ....Hmmmm?
Sorry to talk in riddles for the rest of you.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 07, 2013, 01:55:43 AM
so going back to what we were saying. Was bundleman holed up somewhere, awaiting instructions?
So who was giving instructions to bundleman? Where did he go?
three guessses
1) To a rendevous with a small boat to be taken out to sea to be passed to a bigger vessel? 2) To be picked up in a car along that main street and whisked off elsewhere? 3) To Malinkas apartment / car? His place was only about 40 metres in an easterly direction from Aoifes sighting He was of interest to the PJ. He wiped his computer and had his car burned out at least twice, we are told with the word FALA (= TALK) painted on the pavement nearby.
(http://i.imgur.com/aC9AKea.jpg) Thanks for posting the image John
He also had an interest with Fazackerly in a boat which sailed to Sao Tome and Principe + any place around PT or Africa that it was commisioned for. Was it Malinka who was in telephone contact with a boat at Lagos harbour?
If any of the above is incorrect please tell me, cos i might have got this info from the media rather than from official statements. I do not wish to start myths. It was researched probably about 5 years ago ... and i am doing this from memory.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: John on July 07, 2013, 02:56:55 AM
I must say Sadie, I didn't realise the significance of what you posted some time ago. You are spot on my dear, Malinka's place where his car was burned is right on Rua 25 de Abril and only about 40 metres from Aoife's sighting.
(http://i.imgur.com/qE8A1zy.jpg)
Red dot depicts Aoife's sighting while blue Audi in the foreground is where Malinka's Audi car was burned out.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: sadie on July 07, 2013, 11:06:07 AM
I must say Sadie, I didn't realise the significance of what you posted some time ago. You are spot on my dear, Malinka's place where his car was burned is right on Rua 25 de Abril and only about 40 metres from Aoife's sighting.
(http://i.imgur.com/qE8A1zy.jpg)
Red dot depicts Aoife's sighting while blue Audi in the foreground is where Malinka's Audi car was burned out.
I believe that Sergey and his Mum lived either in the building in the right foreground of your image, John ...or ... see the little turn right immediately behind the foreground building on the right? ... there is a car parking area there which seems to serve about four different blocks of flats. He might have lived in one of those. From memory he lived in block C.
That area also could have been a good quiet place for a car to stand waiting for ?bundleman.
Only possibilities, nothing more, but maybe should be looked at? I must admit that i feel uncomfortable about chewing someone over (who may be, and probably is, completely innocent ) on the internet.
I had actually come on here to delete/modify my previous post, when I saw your post John and your new thread. If we are going to examine sergey, then maybe everything should be kept together in one thread?
If I have time, some images coming to you
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: John on July 07, 2013, 01:56:20 PM
Having done some rudimentary research into Sergei and his involvement with Robert Murat I came across some interesting facts and also some propaganda. I think that it is only fair that we reveal both to the reader who can make up their own mind as to their significance. Could he be one of the 38 persons of interest? With so many aliases NSY will have their work cut out just finding him.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: DCI on July 07, 2013, 02:06:23 PM
It seems quite simple to me. The abductor won't have known if he was going to be successful until it was done, so he will have hidden somewhere until final arrangements could be made, like a small boat coming into the beach to collect him. And he won't have wanted to hang around on the beach for half an hour.
IMO this is a very likely scenario. Boats are not like cars, and are affected by tides, winds etc. so no chance of making precise plans timewise beforehand in the same way you could with a car.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: sadie on July 08, 2013, 01:29:27 AM
Sorry DCI, have had a fairly good search and cant find anything.
About 3 years ago I found a website that said that Malinka and Fazackerley had a shop next to Robert Murats shop in Lagos IIRC. That was how they knew each other. But seems it is gone now.
Wonder if it was Murats Romigen shop?
... and either a Malinka computer shop ... or to do with their interest in The Corlett line "Naomi Corlett" boat and their ( Malinka and Fazackerleys) business with the "Island Adventures". Think that was what it was called.
Did Malinka later move to a flat above his shop?
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Redblossom on July 08, 2013, 03:19:35 PM
2012 - 2013 spot the difference, and what happened to change things?
1 min 15 secs
“We are here in terms of seeking to bring closure to the case. That would be the ultimate objective and is our ultimate objective.”
Richard Bilton: “What does that mean?”
DCI Redwood: “Well closure means establishing what has happened to Madeleine McCann.”
RB: “Solving it?”
DCI Redwood: “Yes, solving it, of course.”
2013
5 mins 15 secs
....and Im hopeful when we pursue those lines of enquiry we will bring some sort of resolution, whether we'll be able to solve it is a different issue.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: sadie on July 08, 2013, 06:04:05 PM
I know why there might be a difference but I aint telling you.
Sorry Red
Laugh at me if you wish.
He that laughs last laughs longest.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: faithlilly on July 08, 2013, 06:46:29 PM
I know why there might be a difference but I aint telling you.
Sorry Red
Laugh at me if you wish.
He that laughs last laughs longest.
'Yawn'.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Redblossom on July 10, 2013, 07:32:20 PM
This is the first time I have read this , the govt saying there is no evidence of abduction or otherwise, therefore mirrorring what the PT AG said in his summing up: Quote The British government's Foreign & Commonwealth Office also made their view clear, post-arguido, in December 2009, when responding to a Freedom of Information request about the missing child, Ben Needham. They wrote: 'You will also be aware of the Madeleine McCann case. Both this and the Needham case are categorised as a missing persons, rather than child abduction cases, as there is no evidence in either case to support whether the children were or were not abducted.' Unquote http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/14958708-scotland-yard-statements-on-madeleine-mccann-fail-to-erase-the-question-marks
Even Andy Redwood does not categorically state he believes she was abducted, all he was saying if you read between the lines, is the possibility was there for a criminal act by a stranger:
Quote Yes, I mean, you know, we have conducted a forensic analysis of the timeline, and there is clearly opportunity there - for Madeleine McCann to have been removed from that apartment alive - and it is our belief, as experienced investigators - on the evidence, that, um that you know, that that, that is as a criminal act - and that has been, you know, undertaken by by a stranger, and so from that - she’s… and there are other cases around the world, ..... unquote
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 10, 2013, 07:52:23 PM
Yes, I mean, you know, we have conducted a forensic analysis of the timeline, and there is clearly opportunity there - for Madeleine McCann to have been removed from that apartment alive - and it is our belief, as experienced investigators - on the evidence, that, um that you know, that that, that is as a criminal act - and that has been, you know, undertaken by by a stranger, and so from that - she’s… and there are other cases around the world, .....
Nothing here says "Madeleine McCann was removed" between 21h10 and 21h15. The opportunity between 21h30 and 22h is more plausible and just before 22h would fit with the Smith sighting.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Redblossom on July 10, 2013, 08:02:16 PM
Nothing here says "Madeleine McCann was removed" between 21h10 and 21h15. The opportunity between 21h30 and 22h is more plausible and just before 22h would fit with the Smith sighting.
IMO he is not even committing to saying he believes there was an abduction, let alone what time was probable or possible
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: sadie on July 10, 2013, 09:38:57 PM
Nothing here says "Madeleine McCann was removed" between 21h10 and 21h15. The opportunity between 21h30 and 22h is more plausible and just before 22h would fit with the Smith sighting.
Nothing in THAT particular piece says it, I agree. How about all the others/
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: sadie on July 10, 2013, 09:40:39 PM
Yes, how many times do we need to hear him say that? Abducted in criminal act by STRANGER, based on EXISTING evidence.
Slightly over-interpreting the ineloquent speech of Mr Redwood perhaps ? it is our belief, as experienced investigators - on the evidence, that, um that you know, that that, that is as a criminal act - and that has been, you know, undertaken by by a stranger, and so from that - she's ... and there are other cases around the world, as you know where, many years later, people have been taken and been found alive.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Mrs. B on July 12, 2013, 11:25:24 AM
Repeated here as well. There is no doubt what the man is saying. Wishful thinking & lying to yourselves won't change that fact.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 12, 2013, 11:42:07 AM
Repeated here as well. There is no doubt what the man is saying. Wishful thinking & lying to yourselves won't change that fact.
Yes, "there's no doubt what the man is saying", he's the one who doubts what he says. Look at his words (interesting because the man is not eloquent but has a certain insurance, especially when he repeats his favourite argument "we have a unique position". Q : So those (195) ... that means they are basically ... being tied together? - links and ... Redwood: Yes. Q : Basically tying together - links. Redwood: Yes. This history of the case, where we've obviously started, is one part of the review, and that is where those 195 opportunities come from ... across a broad range of issues ... but it's just simply that we're unable to answer them ...
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: sadie on July 12, 2013, 01:08:38 PM
Yes, "there's no doubt what the man is saying", he's the one who doubts what he says. Look at his words (interesting because the man is not eloquent but has a certain insurance, especially when he repeats his favourite argument "we have a unique position". Q : So those (195) ... that means they are basically ... being tied together? - links and ... Redwood: Yes. Q : Basically tying together - links. Redwood: Yes. This history of the case, where we've obviously started, is one part of the review, and that is where those 195 opportunities come from ... across a broad range of issues ... but it's just simply that we're unable to answer them ...
Where did you get these questions and answers from Anne?
I have gone thru the video three times and I cant find them.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 12, 2013, 01:56:24 PM
Yes, how many times do we need to hear him say that? Abducted in criminal act by STRANGER, based on EXISTING evidence.
Context is everything Mrs B
Nowhere in that video does he state that he believes Madeleine was taken by a stranger, do read between the carefully worded lines, if you cant, its not my problem
All he is saying is that the opportunity was there for an abduction and an abduction is a criminal act, thats all, spaghetti soup anyone?
Even the table bottom looks like cinderellas pumpkin when she went to the ball LOL
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 12, 2013, 09:52:36 PM
I hadn't noted ! Without the pumpkin Cinderella would never have gone to the ball and met the prince charmant !
Yes Anne, even though sights and visions and interpretations are subjective sometimes they can be spot on by some quirk, it happens, I agree a fairytale badly told
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 12, 2013, 10:11:33 PM
Yes Anne, even though sights and visions and interpretations are subjective sometimes they can be spot on by some quirk, it happens, I agree a fairytale badly told
A fairytale, that's what people most like, it's like being born again to tell them to your kids and later to your grand children. I used to invent stories for my kids and nephews and they would ask questions that boosted my imagination. Marvellous pleasure !
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Redblossom on July 12, 2013, 10:26:36 PM
A fairytale, that's what people most like, it's like being born again to tell them to your kids and later to your grand children. I used to invent stories for my kids and nephews and they would ask questions that boosted my imagination. Marvellous pleasure !
Some fairytales are nightmares in reality
Goodnight Anne, see you tomorrow 8((()*/
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 12, 2013, 10:29:02 PM
Yes especially if it comes from the* good people* Bye now
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: DCI on July 18, 2013, 02:50:53 PM
Very interesting 8(>((
Madeleine McCann Prime Suspect could be tried in UK
Posted on July 7, 2013by fattassassin
The UK Home Secretary is now negotiating with the Portuguese Attorney to try the prime suspect in the Madeleine McCann case in England upon arrest.
Although Madeleine went missing from her family holiday apartment in the Portuguese Algarve, Theresa May has been pushing the Portuguese authorities to support a trial in the English courts. Swiftly following the deportation of Abu Qatada, May sees the rescue of Madeleine McCann to be the next prominent issue her office will deal with the backing of the UK Prime Minister, David Cameron.
While Operation Grange held a press conference this week to announce their current findings to date, their Portuguese equivalents made several arrests (arguidos) including a freelance journalist and their former partner. Both were detained 28th June while accusations of perverting the course of justice are investigated.
A former lead Portuguese investigator in the McCann case has been requested by appointment to answer further questions by Grange aligned detectives.
In the United Kingdom more arrests are scheduled for the weekend.
Madeleine’s parents Kate and Gerry are very pleased with the progress made so far and are due to meet with Operation Grange deceives and the Home Secretary this week.
Madeleine McCann Prime Suspect could be tried in UK
Posted on July 7, 2013by fattassassin
The UK Home Secretary is now negotiating with the Portuguese Attorney to try the prime suspect in the Madeleine McCann case in England upon arrest.
Although Madeleine went missing from her family holiday apartment in the Portuguese Algarve, Theresa May has been pushing the Portuguese authorities to support a trial in the English courts. Swiftly following the deportation of Abu Qatada, May sees the rescue of Madeleine McCann to be the next prominent issue her office will deal with the backing of the UK Prime Minister, David Cameron.
While Operation Grange held a press conference this week to announce their current findings to date, their Portuguese equivalents made several arrests (arguidos) including a freelance journalist and their former partner. Both were detained 28th June while accusations of perverting the course of justice are investigated.
A former lead Portuguese investigator in the McCann case has been requested by appointment to answer further questions by Grange aligned detectives.
In the United Kingdom more arrests are scheduled for the weekend.
Madeleine’s parents Kate and Gerry are very pleased with the progress made so far and are due to meet with Operation Grange deceives and the Home Secretary this week.
Interesting reading. Will await the next steps from Cider Andy and the team. 8((()*/
Yes I wonder who these are?
Portuguese equivalents made several arrests (arguidos) including a freelance journalist and their former partner. Both were detained 28th June while accusations of perverting the course of justice are investigated. 8-)(--)
Cider Andy, that tickled me @)(++(*
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Albertini on July 18, 2013, 03:13:16 PM
Portuguese equivalents made several arrests (arguidos) including a freelance journalist and their former partner. Both were detained 28th June while accusations of perverting the course of justice are investigated. 8-)(--)
Cider Andy, that tickled me @)(++(*
Wasn't it that coupled who were arrested because they tried to extort money from the Mccann's?
I feel certain it was in the papers a week or two ago.
Portuguese equivalents made several arrests (arguidos) including a freelance journalist and their former partner. Both were detained 28th June while accusations of perverting the course of justice are investigated. 8-)(--)
Cider Andy, that tickled me @)(++(*
Remember this entry, when he quoted someone from AP?
“There were quite a few local journalists who claimed to have insider information on the investigation and even one who claimed that the investigating team in an attempt to get around the Portuguese secrecy laws were deliberately passing on information to Portuguese editors and researchers. I recall one very big Portuguese freelance journalist who was always around in a particular restaurant offering stories and titbits on the investigation. It seemed to be his wife/girlfriend and him operation, both were huge so it was no surprise you could always find them in the restaurant. I believe he was giving out the insider investigation information and she was attempting to get business from translating for the UK journalists. I never had any dealings with either of them. Word got around that his wife’s translations were not accurate and his information by the end of 2009 was fraudulent as I expect his insider sources were. He later got in touch trying to sell pictures related to the McCann investigation but these never existed. I heard his wife or girlfriend left him because of the fraud and his lies.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: faithlilly on July 18, 2013, 06:15:01 PM
Whilst i do not think either Amaral or Martin Grime are Gods to be worshipped as some do, i often wonder, if Mr Grime and his dogs were as discredited as some claim, how he still managed to get high profile work including (and i believe) currently for the FBI.
If he was a busted flush would he still be getting these gigs?
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Rachel Granada on July 18, 2013, 06:46:59 PM
The dogs are a good tool, but without corroborating forensics they have no value. A couple of questions: Was there not other evidence against Lane, including a testimony from the victim's young sister who had witnessed Lane being violent to her?
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Rachel Granada on July 18, 2013, 07:01:23 PM
Anyway, back on topic. What about these two people - the journalist and his partner? Could be some interesting developments! I wonder who it could be?
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Albertini on July 18, 2013, 07:04:42 PM
The dogs are a good tool, but without corroborating forensics they have no value. A couple of questions: Was there not other evidence against Lane, including a testimony from the victim's young sister who had witnessed Lane being violent to her?
Genuine question time again.....
What do you think the dogs alerted to in the McCann case?
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Rachel Granada on July 18, 2013, 07:39:24 PM
What do you think the dogs alerted to in the McCann case?
OK (then back on topic!)
Well we did have some blood (of Lino Henriques), nothing found that related to Madeleine's profile. I understand that Eddie did alert around the wardrobe area, this could indeed have been cadaverine. However it could have come from many sources - scent drift, etc. I think we also have to understand clearly the relevance of the fact that 5a was rented out no fewer than four times before the dogs arrived. What Eddie alerted to could have been down to any former or later residents of 5a. It could have been semen.
So as you can see, it is most definitely NOT a case of "Eddie barks = must be cadaverine". It is not an exact science, and without corroborating forensics is of no evidential value.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: AnneGuedes on July 18, 2013, 07:51:19 PM
Mr Grime says Eddie didn't react to cadaverine, which is a synthetic combination of a few of the hundreds of components of human decay scent.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Rachel Granada on July 18, 2013, 07:53:08 PM
I don't think you need photo's to guess who, do you Rachel?
Now who could this be? >@@(*&)
A former lead Portuguese investigator in the McCann case has been requested by appointment to answer further questions by Grange aligned detectives.
Not surprising. Not many people have as in depth a knowledge of the case as Amaral.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Lace on July 18, 2013, 08:50:28 PM
Sorry faith that made me laugh.
In depth knowledge??
The McCann's hid the body on the beach, then they dug her up and kept her somewhere cool maybe a freezer. Then they transported her in the hire car, her defrosting body knocking against a kerb and leaving dna of Madeleine in the car. 100% dna that is
Or perhaps Gerry could have thrown her off the cliffs, it wasn't crabs he was looking for you know.
Or maybe, I had to throw my dog in the bin, it was too dry to dig a hole. Ah ah, how easy it would be to dispose of a body in that way.
He had no idea!!
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Rachel Granada on July 18, 2013, 09:34:16 PM
I don't think you need photo's to guess who, do you Rachel?
Now who could this be? >@@(*&)
A former lead Portuguese investigator in the McCann case has been requested by appointment to answer further questions by Grange aligned detectives.
Yes I wonder... I am seeing a diamond earring, a silly fedora...
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: DCI on July 20, 2013, 03:17:53 PM
Scotland Yard detectives to return to holiday resort where Madeleine McCann vanished 'within days' to follow up new leads
By Steve Nolan
PUBLISHED:12:14, 20 July 2013| UPDATED:12:15, 20 July 2013
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/07/20/article-0-1AA8DB58000005DC-213_306x423.jpg) New leads: Scotland Yard detectives could travel to Portugal in the coming days to follow up on new leads in the case of missing Madeleine McCann (pictured)
Detectives searching for Madeleine McCann could fly to the Portuguese holiday resort where the youngster went missing within days to follow up on new leads.
Metropolitan Police officers could potentially interview suspects, search properties and even make arrests in the Algarve where Madeleine disappeared while on a family holiday in 2007.
The Crown Prosecution Service has written a Letter of Request to Portuguese judges this week asking for permission to work in the country to gather evidence alongside local police.
According to the Daily Mirror, the letter included the names of some of the suspects that police wish to speak to regarding the case and an outline of a number of offences being investigated.
Madeleine went missing from an apartment in Praia da Luz on May 3, 2007, as her parents dined with friends at a nearby tapas restaurant.
The shambolic Portuguese inquiry was shelved in 2008, but Scotland Yard began a Home Office-funded review in 2011 – known as Operation Grange – following the intervention of David Cameron.
The Met said earlier this month that it was preparing to swoop on 38 suspects 'scattered across Europe' after announcing a full criminal investigation.
Among them are a dozen British nationals who were visiting or living in the Algarve at the time the then three-year-old went missing.
Investigators said that they have no prime suspects but said that they had found no evidence that the youngster had been murdered.
Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood, who is leading the inquiry, said: ‘We continue to believe that there is a possibility that Madeleine is alive.'
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/07/20/article-0-015F51DB000004B0-753_634x450.jpg) Crime scene: The Ocean Club Resort in Praia da Luz where Madeleine went missing in 2007
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/07/20/article-0-12E3546D000005DC-812_634x413.jpg) New hope: Madeleine's parents Kate and Gerry McCann welcomed the Met's announcement that it had new leads earlier this month
The Met's announcement came toward the end of a two year £5million review of the case which officers said has created a 'unique picture' of what happened in the Algarve. (http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/07/20/article-0-12B0DA0A000005DC-828_306x335.jpg)
Hopeful: Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood said that police have no evidence that Madeleine was murdered
Mr Redwood said the painstaking review has brought together all the information about Madeleine for the first time.
He said: ‘That has given us the ability to see this case with fresh eyes, and through that bring out new – genuinely new – lines of inquiry.
‘I’m hopeful that when we pursue those lines of inquiry, we will be able to bring some sort of resolution.
'Whether we will be able to solve it is a different issue, but I hope we will be able to have the ability to move the investigation on.
'I believe that this is an important moment for Madeleine. It is a great opportunity which we intend to exploit to the full.’
A Met Police spokesman refused to comment on when detectives will be sent to Portugal as part of the investigation and the CPS was unavailable for comment.
Prime Minister David Cameron had ordered the review of the case back in 2011.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: DCI on July 22, 2013, 12:09:03 PM
Madeleine McCann: New hope as British police go-ahead to start search in Portugal SCOTLAND Yard detectives could begin work in Portugal within weeks as they step up the hunt for Madeleine McCann.
Scotland Yard detectives believe Madeleine McCann may still be alive
The Crown Prosecution Service has written to Portuguese judges asking for permission for a team to gather evidence, with the help of local police.
A CPS spokesman said: “We can confirm that a Letter of Request has now been sent to the Portuguese authorities.”
It is hoped this will ease the way for officers from the UK to be based in Portugal to interview witnesses and suspects, search properties and be present should any arrests need to be made.
Portugal will now have to reply to the UK authorities and agree to the request to gather evidence over there. However there is no reason to suggest they will refuse. The Metropolitan Police has identified 38 “persons of interest” – 12 of them UK citizens.
Senior Metropolitan Police officers from Operation Grange, the inquiry into Madeleine’s disappearance, remain optimistic of making progress in the case. Announcing the full-blown investigation, Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood said: “It is a positive step in our hunt for Madeleine that our understanding of the evidence has enabled us to shift from review to investigation. We, and the Portuguese authorities, remain completely committed to finding out what happened to Madeleine, and everything we do is utterly focused on her best interests. We continue to believe that there is a possibility that Madeleine is alive.”
International criminal investigations in Europe are governed by two treaties – the 1959 European Convention on Mutual Assistance in Criminal Matters, and the Convention on Mutual Assistance in Criminal Matters between EU States of 2000.
Madeleine – who would now be 10 – went missing from her holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in the Algarve on May 3, 2007, as her parents dined with friends.
(http://images.dailyexpress.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/secondary/56268.jpg) Kate and Gerry McCan have 'absolute faith' in Scotland Yard
The Metropolitan Police has identified 38 persons of interest
Neither Kate nor Gerry McCann, both 45, nor the friends who were eating with them that night are among the 38 people identified, police said. None of the 38 is known to the McCanns. But Kate and Gerry have said they “have absolute faith in the work Scotland Yard are doing”.
The Portuguese investigation is officially closed but authorities there are backing the new Scotland Yard inquiry and officers from both countries will work together in pursuing new leads.
A team of 37 Met police officers and staff is now working on the case. The 12 British “persons of interest” were in Portugal at the time Madeleine vanished, and are currently thought to be in Portugal or the UK. The other 26 are believed to be in these countries or three other unnamed European nations. So far the inquiry team has gathered 30,500 documents and generated 3,800 actions that they need to tackle.
Operation Grange was launched in 2011 after the McCanns, from Rothley, Leics, appealed directly to David Cameron for help from Scotland Yard.
The new full-blown investigation is being funded by the Home Office. The cost of the review so far has been put at around £5million.
Title: Re: Met Police say 38 persons of interest including 12 UK nationals.
Post by: Angelo222 on August 28, 2013, 03:23:39 AM
A little reminder of what Scotland Yard said recently.
Seems none of the tapas-9 are persons of interest or suspects!