A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal

[Brietta]

Perhaps I should drop in to the forum a link to the top 15 unsolved murders in the UK.  The first two were from Fulham.  Possibly this makes Fulham the crime capital of the UK, but somehow I doubt it.

Let me tell you two real life stories from life here on the Algarve.

Story 1.  I was walking down Primary School Street in Luz, presumably to check out something about the Smith sighting.  As I passed the primary school, a small child started up a conversation with me.  From behind the school perimeter fence, which he was climbing up like a monkey.

It is easy to tell if children are Portuguese, on sight, and he was.  Equally, it is easy to tell if people are non-Portuguese, so the little boy 'clocked' me instantly, and we had a short exchange, all in fluent English.

Primary school.  He spoke to me in high quality English.  He recognised me as non-Portuguese.

Story 2 is much more recent.  We have a primary school in our village, and a church.  As far I could tell, neither was in active use.  However, when I took my grandchildren around for an 'adventure' the primary school was stuffed with people.  Behind the perimeter fence, the playground was buzzing with football, kids on scooters.  At the entrance to the school, perhaps 20m away, there is a patio.  The parents were sitting there, eating, drinking, conversing.

My grandson had been mithering because he had no friends to play with.  Now we welcome his Portuguese friends into our property.

ANALYSIS

Cipriano v Madeleine?

I am sorry ... I do not see the relevance of your 'ANALYSIS' to miscarriage of justice in Portugal.

[ShiningInLuz]

I am sorry ... I do not see the relevance of your 'ANALYSIS' to miscarriage of justice in Portugal.

Don't worry.  I never thought that you would.

[Venturi Swirl]

What has your post got to do with reality?

I don't care what the population density of the Algarve, Portugal or Derbyshire is, because it is comparing apples to elephants.  I dare say New York, London, Hong Kong, or Singapore have much higher population densities, but so what?  The 'disappearances' did not happen there, did they?

I have stacked up a trip to Figueira to have a nose about.  To find out if it different to Lisbon, Porto, Portimão, Lagos and Sagres.

If anyone has any requests for photos, this is the time to pipe up.  My 'partner in crime' is starting a new job soon, so we have to crack on with it.

No, the disappearances didn’t happen in high density population areas like New York, London, Hong Kong or Singapore.  That is precisely my point.   Two girls disappearing in New York two years apart is less noteworthy IMO than two girls going missing in a much less densely populated or urban area in the same time scale.  I don’t care if you want to rubbish my opinion, feel free.

[Venturi Swirl]

Perhaps I should drop in to the forum a link to the top 15 unsolved murders in the UK.  The first two were from Fulham.  Possibly this makes Fulham the crime capital of the UK, but somehow I doubt it.

Let me tell you two real life stories from life here on the Algarve.

Story 1.  I was walking down Primary School Street in Luz, presumably to check out something about the Smith sighting.  As I passed the primary school, a small child started up a conversation with me.  From behind the school perimeter fence, which he was climbing up like a monkey.

It is easy to tell if children are Portuguese, on sight, and he was.  Equally, it is easy to tell if people are non-Portuguese, so the little boy 'clocked' me instantly, and we had a short exchange, all in fluent English.

Primary school.  He spoke to me in high quality English.  He recognised me as non-Portuguese.

Story 2 is much more recent.  We have a primary school in our village, and a church.  As far I could tell, neither was in active use.  However, when I took my grandchildren around for an 'adventure' the primary school was stuffed with people.  Behind the perimeter fence, the playground was buzzing with football, kids on scooters.  At the entrance to the school, perhaps 20m away, there is a patio.  The parents were sitting there, eating, drinking, conversing.

My grandson had been mithering because he had no friends to play with.  Now we welcome his Portuguese friends into our property.

ANALYSIS

Cipriano v Madeleine?

How horrifying! Where were the teachers in whose care this “monkey” child was entrusted?  You could have been a paedo!

[ShiningInLuz]

How horrifying! Where were the teachers in whose care this “monkey” child was entrusted?  You could have been a paedo!

The child was INSIDE the security fence.  I was OUTSIDE the security fence.

Quelle domage.

[Venturi Swirl]

The child was INSIDE the security fence.  I was OUTSIDE the security fence.

Quelle domage.

You said the child was climbing the fence “like a monkey”.  A paedo could have enticed him over with “would you like to see my puppy” couldn’t he?  Even if not, I would be horrified to discover that my young child had been in conversation with a male stranger passerby whilst he was in the playground, especially in Praia da Luz of all places!

[ShiningInLuz]

You said the child was climbing the fence “like a monkey”.  A paedo could have enticed him over with “would you like to see my puppy” couldn’t he?  Even if not, I would be horrified to discover that my young child had been in conversation with a male stranger passerby whilst he was in the playground, especially in Praia da Luz of all places!

Oh dear, this is really scraping the barrel!

You mean, I am not permitted to converse with a schoolchild in Luz?  Should I have ignored him after he initiated the conversation?  To do so would have been incredibly rude or maleducado - badly educated.

Perhaps his parents should have told him to never talk to strangers?  Perhaps the school staff should have stopped his playing? Perhaps, as you imply that Luz is a paedo hell-hole they should shut the primary school down? Presumably along with kindergarden on the street adjoining block 5?  Or why not just flatten the whole of Luz, and the whole of Figueira, and be done with it?

I can't say you are clutching at straws here, because there isn't a straw to clutch.

Perhaps you live in some grey hell-hole in the UK where correct procedure is to ignore small children when they talk to you?

I was living in Luz, and I am not maleducado to ignore a young child.  Here we look out for our kids, somewhat Neighbourhood Watch-ish.  Perhaps the McCanns should have done the same?

[faithlilly]

Oh dear, this is really scraping the barrel!

You mean, I am not permitted to converse with a schoolchild in Luz?  Should I have ignored him after he initiated the conversation?  To do so would have been incredibly rude or maleducado - badly educated.

Perhaps his parents should have told him to never talk to strangers?  Perhaps the school staff should have stopped his playing? Perhaps, as you imply that Luz is a paedo hell-hole they should shut the primary school down? Presumably along with kindergarden on the street adjoining block 5?  Or why not just flatten the whole of Luz, and the whole of Figueira, and be done with it?

I can't say you are clutching at straws here, because there isn't a straw to clutch.

Perhaps you live in some grey hell-hole in the UK where correct procedure is to ignore small children when they talk to you?

I was living in Luz, and I am not maleducado to ignore a young child.  Here we look out for our kids, somewhat Neighbourhood Watch-ish.  Perhaps the McCanns should have done the same?

Isn’t it ironic that if Madeleine had left the apartment that her only chance of getting to safety would be to talk to an adult who was a stranger to her?

[John]

Oh dear, this is really scraping the barrel!

You mean, I am not permitted to converse with a schoolchild in Luz?  Should I have ignored him after he initiated the conversation?  To do so would have been incredibly rude or maleducado - badly educated.

Perhaps his parents should have told him to never talk to strangers?  Perhaps the school staff should have stopped his playing? Perhaps, as you imply that Luz is a paedo hell-hole they should shut the primary school down? Presumably along with kindergarden on the street adjoining block 5?  Or why not just flatten the whole of Luz, and the whole of Figueira, and be done with it?

I can't say you are clutching at straws here, because there isn't a straw to clutch.

Perhaps you live in some grey hell-hole in the UK where correct procedure is to ignore small children when they talk to you?

I was living in Luz, and I am not maleducado to ignore a young child.  Here we look out for our kids, somewhat Neighbourhood Watch-ish.  Perhaps the McCanns should have done the same?

In the UK men in particular have become so brainwashed by the media that having a conversation in public with any child is a red flag.

[Venturi Swirl]

Oh dear, this is really scraping the barrel!

You mean, I am not permitted to converse with a schoolchild in Luz?  Should I have ignored him after he initiated the conversation?  To do so would have been incredibly rude or maleducado - badly educated.

Perhaps his parents should have told him to never talk to strangers?  Perhaps the school staff should have stopped his playing? Perhaps, as you imply that Luz is a paedo hell-hole they should shut the primary school down? Presumably along with kindergarden on the street adjoining block 5?  Or why not just flatten the whole of Luz, and the whole of Figueira, and be done with it?

I can't say you are clutching at straws here, because there isn't a straw to clutch.

Perhaps you live in some grey hell-hole in the UK where correct procedure is to ignore small children when they talk to you?

I was living in Luz, and I am not maleducado to ignore a young child.  Here we look out for our kids, somewhat Neighbourhood Watch-ish.  Perhaps the McCanns should have done the same?

You are being either incredibly naive or incredibly stupid IMO.  Strange men talking to young children as they play in the playground would be seen as a major red flag in the grey hell hole that us Britain, maybe it should be in Portugal as well.  Would you really be happy to learn that one your grandchildren was engaging in an unsupervised conversation with a complete stranger whilst in the school playground?

[Miss Taken Identity]

You are being either incredibly naive or incredibly stupid IMO.  Strange men talking to young children as they play in the playground would be seen as a major red flag in the grey hell hole that us Britain, maybe it should be in Portugal as well.  Would you really be happy to learn that one your grandchildren was engaging in an unsupervised conversation with a complete stranger whilst in the school playground?

There you go with the name calling...When we went on holiday to Italy me and my sister would walk to the square where the older men played draughs, they would chat to us and loet us along with other Italian children move their markers- they biught us icecream as well. I got lost once,running out of a shop and turned the wrong way- and one of them led me back to the quare. Are all men in the UK paedophiles? heavens! How Gross. My papa must be out there raping kids in playgrounds...

[faithlilly]

There you go with the name calling...When we went on holiday to Italy me and my sister would walk to the square where the older men played draughs, they would chat to us and loet us along with other Italian children move their markers- they biught us icecream as well. I got lost once,running out of a shop and turned the wrong way- and one of them led me back to the quare. Are all men in the UK paedophiles? heavens! How Gross. My papa must be out there raping kids in playgrounds...

I’m afraid that’s the legacy of cases like the McCann case.

[Venturi Swirl]

There you go with the name calling...When we went on holiday to Italy me and my sister would walk to the square where the older men played draughs, they would chat to us and loet us along with other Italian children move their markers- they biught us icecream as well. I got lost once,running out of a shop and turned the wrong way- and one of them led me back to the quare. Are all men in the UK paedophiles? heavens! How Gross. My papa must be out there raping kids in playgrounds...

Are you the same person who thinks it is neglectful to leave small children asleep in their beds in an unlocked apartment?

[Venturi Swirl]

Let’s put it this way: if there are kids playing in the yard at school and one engages in conversation with a passing male stranger should the supervising teacher encourage the child, turn a blind eye or tell the child to stop and come away from the man?  What would you do if you were the teacher in charge?

[jassi]

In those circumstances, I would attempt to engage in conversation with this male.