UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Angelo222 on July 05, 2018, 11:15:59 AM
-
Regular readers and posters will be very aware of my views on this aspect of the Maddie case.
It is no secret that while the official Portuguese investigation was ongoing, attempts were made to undermine it and those leading it. Several detectives including the coordinator of the case Goncalo Amaral and the police liaison officer Ricardo Paiva were personally targeted at various times. The former being removed from the case and forced out of the police force after speaking out.
It is also no secret that private Spanish detectives were brought in to search for Maddie but ended up hounding witnesses, creating false sightings and targeting others.
Is it not about time that these events were properly investigated and those behind them prosecuted?
105
-
Regular readers and posters will be very aware of my views on this aspect of the Maddie case.
It is no secret that while the official Portuguese investigation was ongoing, attempts were made to undermine it and those leading it. Several detectives including the coordinator of the case Goncalo Amaral and the police liaison officer Ricardo Paiva were personally targeted at various times. The former being removed from the case and forced out of the police force after speaking out.
It is also no secret that private Spanish detectives were brought in to search for Maddie but ended up hounding witnesses, creating false sightings and targeting others.
Is it not about time that these events were properly investigated and those behind them prosecuted?
What did the PJ say when you raised the points with them..
-
Regular readers and posters will be very aware of my views on this aspect of the Maddie case.
It is no secret that while the official Portuguese investigation was ongoing, attempts were made to undermine it and those leading it. Several detectives including the coordinator of the case Goncalo Amaral and the police liaison officer Ricardo Paiva were personally targeted at various times. The former being removed from the case and forced out of the police force after speaking out.
It is also no secret that private Spanish detectives were brought in to search for Maddie but ended up hounding witnesses, creating false sightings and targeting others.
Is it not about time that these events were properly investigated and those behind them prosecuted?
Probably so, but it's not within the remit or jurisdiction of Operation Grange.
-
Regular readers and posters will be very aware of my views on this aspect of the Maddie case.
It is no secret that while the official Portuguese investigation was ongoing, attempts were made to undermine it and those leading it. Several detectives including the coordinator of the case Goncalo Amaral and the police liaison officer Ricardo Paiva were personally targeted at various times. The former being removed from the case and forced out of the police force after speaking out.
It is also no secret that private Spanish detectives were brought in to search for Maddie but ended up hounding witnesses, creating false sightings and targeting others.
Is it not about time that these events were properly investigated and those behind them prosecuted?
Have you written a comprehensive thesis on this?
-
Have you written a comprehensive thesis on this?
Not as such since that is a job for the police. The most important question though is who gave Metodo 3 the instruction to go after Amaral and who sanctioned that pay off.
-
What did the PJ say when you raised the points with them..
I told you that I intend to speak with them face to face and report back.
-
I told you that I intend to speak with them face to face and report back.
I think none of it has any substance to it at all... We've seen all the evidence and IMO there's, no case.... When do you expect to meet them
-
Regular readers and posters will be very aware of my views on this aspect of the Maddie case.
It is no secret that while the official Portuguese investigation was ongoing, attempts were made to undermine it and those leading it. Several detectives including the coordinator of the case Goncalo Amaral and the police liaison officer Ricardo Paiva were personally targeted at various times. The former being removed from the case and forced out of the police force after speaking out.
It is also no secret that private Spanish detectives were brought in to search for Maddie but ended up hounding witnesses, creating false sightings and targeting others.
Is it not about time that these events were properly investigated and those behind them prosecuted?
What's the source of your evidence... Is it just what's been reported in the papers... We know papers, aren't accurate
-
Not as such since that is a job for the police. The most important question though is who gave Metodo 3 the instruction to go after Amaral and who sanctioned that pay off.
what evidence do you have that M3 were asked to go after amaral....press reports
-
what evidence do you have that M3 were asked to go after amaral....press reports
John Grade and Marcos Correia for starters.
-
Regular readers and posters will be very aware of my views on this aspect of the Maddie case.
It is no secret that while the official Portuguese investigation was ongoing, attempts were made to undermine it and those leading it. Several detectives including the coordinator of the case Goncalo Amaral and the police liaison officer Ricardo Paiva were personally targeted at various times. The former being removed from the case and forced out of the police force after speaking out.
It is also no secret that private Spanish detectives were brought in to search for Maddie but ended up hounding witnesses, creating false sightings and targeting others.
Is it not about time that these events were properly investigated and those behind them prosecuted?
Who should be prosecuted in your view?
-
John Grade and Marcos Correia for starters.
That's two names not evidence... What evidence do you have... Just what you've read in the papers.. That isn't evidence
-
That's two names not evidence... What evidence do you have... Just what you've read in the papers.. That isn't evidence
It is for the authorities to establish what is evidence of a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. Anyone with good knowledge of the Maddie case will know exactly what went on. I want the police to establish who was pulling the strings and authorising payments to the private detective criminals for work which had no relevance to finding Maddie.
-
It is for the authorities to establish what is evidence of a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.
so you dont have any evidence
-
It is for the authorities to establish what is evidence of a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. Anyone with good knowledge of the Maddie case will know exactly what went on. I want the police to establish who was pulling the strings and authorising payments to the private detective criminals for work which had no relevance to finding Maddie.
there are a lot of myths surrouding the maddie case...youve started a thread.it seems your posts are high on opinion with no facts...so what are the facts
-
there are a lot of myths surrouding the maddie case...youve started a thread.it seems your posts are high on opinion with no facts...so what are the facts
What worried me was who would the enquiry be focused on? Would it be Metodo 3 or the people who employed them?
-
What worried me was who would the enquiry be focused on? Would it be Metodo 3 or the people who employed them?
Enquiry into what.... Has it been established a crime has been committed... Why doesn't Angelo just take his concerns to the PJ.... He's been talking about it fir about a, year
-
What worried me was who would the enquiry be focused on? Would it be Metodo 3 or the people who employed them?
Everyone involved Robbie. Correia and M3 were merely tools in a devious plot to remove Amaral from the investigation. Portuguese lawyer John Grade has already made it known publicly that M3 approached him but he refused to cooperate with them. We know that Marcos Correia was then approached and that he took on the Cipriano case refusing to disclose who was paying him. The question is what on earth employing Correia has to do with finding Maddie?
-
Everyone involved Robbie. Correia and M3 were merely tools in a devious plot to remove Amaral from the investigation.
amaral was removed before M3 or Correia were on the scene....how could they be part of this devious plot..
no evidence...just pro amaral propaganda....I think the pj will laugh at you
-
Everyone involved Robbie. Correia and M3 were merely tools in a devious plot to remove Amaral from the investigation. Portuguese lawyer John Grade has already made it known publicly that M3 approached him but he refused to cooperate with them. We know that Marcos Correia was then approached and that he took on the Cipriano case refusing to disclose who was paying him. The question is what on earth employing Cordia has to do with finding Maddie?
all opinion stated as fact
-
all opinion stated as fact
All documented and publicly recorded. I would have thought that you of all people would want to get to the bottom of this unsavoury episode?
-
All documented and publicly recorded.
As per forum rules you will kindly provide all the relevant cites then.
-
All documented and publicly recorded. I would have thought that you of all people would want to get to the bottom of this unsavoury episode?
documented where
-
As per forum rules you will kindly provide all the relevant cites then.
It is all recorded on the main thread so I am not going to repeat it here. This thread merely asks the question as to whether the enquiry should be expanded to encompass this episode.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8538.msg427985#msg427985
-
Everyone involved Robbie. Correia and M3 were merely tools in a devious plot to remove Amaral from the investigation. Portuguese lawyer John Grade has already made it known publicly that M3 approached him but he refused to cooperate with them. We know that Marcos Correia was then approached and that he took on the Cipriano case refusing to disclose who was paying him. The question is what on earth employing Correia has to do with finding Maddie?
amaral was removed before M3 were employed which makes your claim false...how do ypu explain that
-
It is all recorded on the main thread.
and nothing was establised as fact...so tell me..what part did m3 have in removing amaral from the investigation ..
-
It is all recorded on the main thread so I am not going to repeat it here. This thread merely asks the question as to whether the enquiry should be expanded to encompass this episode.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8538.msg427985#msg427985
the only thing recorded on the main thread are your claims with no evidence to support them
-
It is all recorded on the main thread so I am not going to repeat it here. This thread merely asks the question as to whether the enquiry should be expanded to encompass this episode.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8538.msg427985#msg427985
Citing another of your unevidenced threads won’t do I’m afraid. Have you actually got any hard evidence for what otherwise are a bunch of baseless allegations?
-
Everyone involved Robbie. Correia and M3 were merely tools in a devious plot to remove Amaral from the investigation
absolute rubbish...amaral was removed before m3 came on the scene...if you can get that so wrong..what does it say for the rest of your claims
-
amaral was removed before M3 were employed which makes your claim false...how do ypu explain that
They both occurred in October 2007. Correia made it very clear that his target was Goncalo Amaral.
-
Perhaps we should send a link to this thread to Marcos Correia and get his input? I’m sure he’d take no issue with what is being alleged here.
-
They both occurred in October 2007.
So tell us how the plot worked then.
-
amaral was removed before M3 or Correia were on the scene....how could they be part of this devious plot..
no evidence...just pro amaral propaganda....I think the pj will laugh at you
Why do you think they employe corrupt investigators - that has been proved.
With no experience what so ever looking for missing children imo.
https://joana-morais.blogspot.co.uk/2009/02/detectives-hired-by-mccanns-want-to.html
Método 3, the Spanish detective agency hired by the McCanns, tried to convince Leonor Cipriano's Lawyer to change the course of defense. The agency operational wanted to make of Gonçalo Amaral - the former coordinator of the PJ of Portimão, responsible for the investigation to the disappearance of Madeleine and Joana, the main target, through the intersection of the two cases
-
Perhaps we should send a link to this thread to Marcos Correia and get his input? I’m sure he’d take no issue with what is being alleged here.
Have already done so some time ago. I think he might have some difficulty denying an event which he has already admitted to. The only question which remains is why did a PI firm charged with finding Maddie end up paying Correia?
-
Have already done so some time ago. I think he might have some difficulty denying an event which he has already admitted to. The only question which remains is why did a PI firm charged with finding Maddie end up paying Correia?
IMO the fund money was used to fight anyone who got in the mccanns way.
IMO looking back it has been used to sue pay legal fees go after GA.
-
They both occurred in October 2007. Correia made it very clear that his target was Goncalo Amaral.
in your opinion....when as amaral removed from the investigation...you have made a massive error
-
M3 had no possible interest in Amaral, their only brief we were led to believe was in finding Maddie. Maybe you can answer the question as to why M3 tried to get a Portuguese lawyer to go after the former coordinator in the Maddie case, what possible benefit could that have had to the investigation to find Maddie?
And just to be clear, M3 were engaged prior to October 2007 and before Amaral left the investigation. He resigned some time later in order to publish his book about the investigation.
I find it very hard to believe that M3 dreamt up the idea all on their own so the million dollar question remains, who instructed M3 to do what they did and who paid them to do it and why?
-
M3 had no possible interest in Amaral, their only brief we were led to believe was in finding Maddie. Maybe you can answer the question as to why M3 tried to get a Portuguese lawyer to go after the former coordinator in the Maddie case, what possible benefit could that have had to the investigation to find Maddie?
And just to be clear, M3 were engaged prior to October 2007 and before Amaral left the investigation. He resigned some time later in order to publish his book about the investigation.
I find it very hard to believe that M3 drempt up the idea all on their own so the million dollar question remains, who instructed M3 to do what they did and who paid them to do it and why?
This has all been discussed and discounted on the thread you quoted....
The question is if you believe it to be true... Send it to the police
It's baseless innuendo fro pro amaral sites IMO. If it's important send it to the police
-
Why do you think they employe corrupt investigators - that has been proved.
With no experience what so ever looking for missing children imo.
https://joana-morais.blogspot.co.uk/2009/02/detectives-hired-by-mccanns-want-to.html
Método 3, the Spanish detective agency hired by the McCanns, tried to convince Leonor Cipriano's Lawyer to change the course of defense. The agency operational wanted to make of Gonçalo Amaral - the former coordinator of the PJ of Portimão, responsible for the investigation to the disappearance of Madeleine and Joana, the main target, through the intersection of the two cases
Now you are citing the blog of a well known McCann sceptic. Got anything more credible?
-
This has all been discussed and discounted on the thread you quoted....
The question is if you believe it to be true... Send it to the police
It's baseless innuendo fro pro amaral sites IMO. If it's important send it to the police
Already done so. Had Correia not admitted it you might have had a point but he couldn't help himself.
I have my own suspicions as to who was behind this entire episode but only a multi agency police enquiry will get to the bottom of it. Time will tell whether the PJ have the stomach for such an expose.
-
Already done so. Had Correia not admitted it you might have had a point but he couldn't help himself.
I have my own suspicions as to who was behind this entire episode but only a multi agency police enquiry will get to the bottom of it. Time will tell whether the PJ have the stomach for such an expose.
What's the point of another thread here.. Tell the PJ and be done with it... I think it's, baseless innuondo
Why do you think amaral himself has, said nothing about it... Not one word.... IMO because your claims are baseless
Amaral tried to sue correia fir libel and lost... Why wouldn't he report him to thevpolice if there were anybtruth in your claims... Because there isn't imo
-
What's the point of another thread here.. Tell the PJ and be done with it... I think it's, baseless innuondo
Why do you think amaral himself has, said nothing about it... Not one word.... IMO because your claims are baseless
Amaral tried to sue correia fir libel and lost... Why wouldn't he report him to thevpolice if there were anybtruth in your claims... Because there isn't imo
Are you calling John Grade a liar then?
I can just see the title of Amaral's new book being, "A verdade do enredo"
-
Are you calling John Grade a liar then?
Quote his statement..
-
Quote his statement..
A little insight...
"Detective agency that sought Maddie recruited lawyer to "burn" Gonçalo Amaral in the case of Joana Cipriano"
The Spanish detective agency Metodo 3, hired by the McCanns to find their daughter Madeleine, recruited lawyer Marcos Aragão Correia - linked to the cases of Madeleine's disappearance and later to that of Joana Cipriano - so that he could get Gonçalo Amaral, the former coordinator of the PJ of Portimão, was the main target of the case that accused him of failure to report acts of torture during the interrogation of Leonor Cipriano.
This story, revealed today in an SIC special report by the journalist Pedro Coelho, explains the connections between the people who gravitated towards the disappearance of the two children.
Joana Cipriano, the eight-year-old girl who disappeared from her village in 2004 and whose body was never discovered, eventually resulted in the arrest and sentencing of her mother, Leonor Cipriano, for 16 years for murder and concealment of a corpse.
In February 2005 Leonor Cipriano made the headlines, after the "Expresso" published photographs of her with bruises on her face.
After this episode, Detective Gonçalo Amaral and four other members of the PJ of Faro, was accused by the Public Ministry of omission of reporting of acts of torture committed by other investigators during the interrogations of Joana's mother.
Leonor Cipriano was defended throughout the investigation phase by lawyer João Grade dos Santos but, "on the eve of the start of the trial, the client did not take the lawyer's services," SIC adds.
Years later, after the disappearance of little Madeleine McCain, on May 3, 2007, the detective agency Metodo 3, which attempted at that time to recruit Leonor Cipriano's lawyer, João Grade dos Santos, explained that his help would be very useful to his investigations, given the similarities between both cases.
At that time, Metodo 3 was very available, even indicated that "money for expenses was not a problem" and drew the theme "Gonçalo Amaral". Only months later, after having refused to work for the Spanish agency, he realized that Metodo 3 had an "agenda".
This "agenda" was, according to SIC, to get a lawyer to put Gonçalo Amaral "out of the fight", since in both cases the detective seemed to want the same: the guilt of the parents.
Given the refusal of João Grade dos Santos, Metodo 3 approached another lawyer - young Marcos Aragão Correia, who participated in the searches of Madeleine as a medium and who later became involved in investigations related to the case Joana, eventually accepting to defend Leonor Cipriano in the trial against the five inspectors of Faro.
"Metodo 3 detectives came to me and told me - we are very concerned because there is a common element in the two cases - Gonçalo Amaral - who is not interested in looking after the children, he is only interested in incriminating the parents. It happened in the Maddie case and also in the Joana case, "explained Aragão Correia, quoted by SIC.
The young lawyer immediately accepted the proposal of the Spanish agency to do what João Grade dos Santos had refused to do: "I was outraged - remember - I thought that Mr. Gonçalo Amaral had a hidden interest in systematically incriminating the mothers without having evidence against them ".
It was after a visit to Leonor Cipriano to the chain of Odemira that Aragão Correia became the defender of Leonor Cipriano. "It was Leonor who asked me. She told me that no one had ever defended her like that. After much reflection I decided to accept, and I communicated to Dr. João Grade dos Santos the decision of Leonor ", advances SIC, citing the caustic.
As soon as Marcos Aragão Correia took over the defense of Leonor, the case, concerning the trial of Faro against the five inspectors of the PJ, undergoes a turnaround. "The great nightmare of Gonçalo Amaral was me to have entered the case," stressed Aragão Correia.
Paulo Pereira Cristóvão, a former PJ inspector and one of Faro's five defendants, accuses Marcos Aragão Correia of having tried to "make a deal" with the defendants, writes SIC. "And this business was: accuse all Gonçalo Amaral that I make Leonor Cipriano say that you have nothing to do with this," he explained.
Marcos Aragão Correia, heard by the journalist Pedro Coelho, does not deny the existence of the agreement, but explained that it is related to "an outburst of one of the defendants." "This defendant sent an email to a friend of mine where he pointed out the blame for Gonçalo Amaral", denounces the lawyer.
Shielding himself with a "contract of secrecy" that links him to Method 3, Marcos Aragão Correia did not give much more detail to the news team, but also said: "If I am taking sides with one of the parties, it is obvious that this part is giving me moral support. "
Neither Metodo 3 nor the McCann spokesperson, contacted by SIC, declined to give statements.
https://www.publico.pt/2009/02/15/sociedade/noticia/agencia-de-detectives-que-procurou-maddie-recrutou-advogado-para-queimar-goncalo-amaral-no-caso-joana-cipriano-1365298
-
Neither Metodo 3 nor the McCann spokesperson, contacted by SIC, declined to give statements.
https://www.publico.pt/2009/02/15/sociedade/noticia/agencia-de-detectives-que-procurou-maddie-recrutou-advogado-para-queimar-goncalo-amaral-no-caso-joana-cipriano-1365298
Why not? Surely they could put this matter to bed instantly by disclosing what went on?
Why all the secrecy??
-
Why not? Surely they could put this matter to bed instantly by disclosing what went on?
Why all the secrecy??
That paper is the equivalent of the sun.... Is, that the type of evidence you have.... Give it ti the police
Again.. Has amaral complained... No he hasn't.. It's all B.... IMO
-
Lawyer caught with drugs in jail
Leonor Cipriano's lawyer was detained for drug possession the day before yesterday afternoon at the entrance of the Odemira Regional Prison, where he went to speak with customers. João Grade dos Santos, 50, visited three prisoners - one of them Joana's mother - and, according to information from the Commander of the GNR Evora Territorial Brigade, prison guards found during the safety review 45 doses of amphetamines and a quarter of ecstasy tablet.
https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/advogado-apanhado-com-droga-na-cadeia
Amaral to train with former “enemy”
by astro 9 years ago
Gonçalo Amaral’s patron was Leonor Cipriano’s defender until the trial of five PJ inspectors over torture on Joana’s mother. Now they are great friends
by Rute Coelho
'from the horse's mouth' ... Morais
Interesting when you think about it.
If he had been found guilty of the drug charge ... João Grade dos Santos was looking at a sentence of up to fifteen years.
Wonder how that little misdemeanour on his part was made to disappear?
-
Why not? Surely they could put this matter to bed instantly by disclosing what went on?
Why all the secrecy??
it appears any investigation into Metodo 3 will stir up issues for the PJ at the same time IMO.
-
Why not? Surely they could put this matter to bed instantly by disclosing what went on?
Why all the secrecy??
"Neither Metodo 3 nor the McCann spokesperson, contacted by SIC, declined to give statements."
Eh? Something lost in translation there methinks.
-
Lawyer caught with drugs in jail
Leonor Cipriano's lawyer was detained for drug possession the day before yesterday afternoon at the entrance of the Odemira Regional Prison, where he went to speak with customers. João Grade dos Santos, 50, visited three prisoners - one of them Joana's mother - and, according to information from the Commander of the GNR Evora Territorial Brigade, prison guards found during the safety review 45 doses of amphetamines and a quarter of ecstasy tablet.
https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/advogado-apanhado-com-droga-na-cadeia
Amaral to train with former “enemy”
by astro 9 years ago
Gonçalo Amaral’s patron was Leonor Cipriano’s defender until the trial of five PJ inspectors over torture on Joana’s mother. Now they are great friends
by Rute Coelho
'from the horse's mouth' ... Morais
Interesting when you think about it.
If he had been found guilty of the drug charge ... João Grade dos Santos was looking at a sentence of up to fifteen years.
Wonder how that little misdemeanour on his part was made to disappear?
The drugs were found in the belongings of a prisoner which the PJ had given to Grade to deliver to the prison.
Correio da Manhã
18 April 2008
The arrest of the lawyer, 50, took place on Thursday afternoon as he prepared to visit two female inmates in prison Beja, which is no longer Leonor Cipriano, accused of the murder of his daughter and sentenced to 16 years in jail.
According to sources the GNR, the military security force detected amphetamines in individual doses equivalent to 45 and a quarter pill "ecstasy" amount.
The Court of Beja determined as a measure of coercion lawyer the disclaimer Identity and Residence (TIR).
"I'm stunned by the whole situation," he explained to Lusa attorney. João Grade dos Santos said the bags were delivered to him "to take them to one of the inmates, whose house, where they were, had been subject to searches by the Judicial Police."
"I hope that the case be clarified with the utmost urgency, to defend my good name and my honor," added the lawyer.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3500.msg126862#msg126862
-
The drugs were found in the belongings of a prisoner which the PJ had given to Grade to deliver to the prison.
Correio da Manhã
18 April 2008
The arrest of the lawyer, 50, took place on Thursday afternoon as he prepared to visit two female inmates in prison Beja, which is no longer Leonor Cipriano, accused of the murder of his daughter and sentenced to 16 years in jail.
According to sources the GNR, the military security force detected amphetamines in individual doses equivalent to 45 and a quarter pill "ecstasy" amount.
The Court of Beja determined as a measure of coercion lawyer the disclaimer Identity and Residence (TIR).
"I'm stunned by the whole situation," he explained to Lusa attorney. João Grade dos Santos said the bags were delivered to him "to take them to one of the inmates, whose house, where they were, had been subject to searches by the Judicial Police."
"I hope that the case be clarified with the utmost urgency, to defend my good name and my honor," added the lawyer.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3500.msg126862#msg126862
yes its like when people carry bags for others through customs...you are relying on newsaper reports for all your evidence...and we know we cannot trust papers...Why dont you give your case to the pj as you have claimed you will do the last 12 months a least...perhaps they will agree with me and tell you its all Bull
-
The drugs were found in the belongings of a prisoner which the PJ had given to Grade to deliver to the prison.
Correio da Manhã
18 April 2008
The arrest of the lawyer, 50, took place on Thursday afternoon as he prepared to visit two female inmates in prison Beja, which is no longer Leonor Cipriano, accused of the murder of his daughter and sentenced to 16 years in jail.
According to sources the GNR, the military security force detected amphetamines in individual doses equivalent to 45 and a quarter pill "ecstasy" amount.
The Court of Beja determined as a measure of coercion lawyer the disclaimer Identity and Residence (TIR).
"I'm stunned by the whole situation," he explained to Lusa attorney. João Grade dos Santos said the bags were delivered to him "to take them to one of the inmates, whose house, where they were, had been subject to searches by the Judicial Police."
"I hope that the case be clarified with the utmost urgency, to defend my good name and my honor," added the lawyer.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3500.msg126862#msg126862
so was the person who gave Grade the bag arrested or was it all swept under the carpet
-
The drugs were found in the belongings of a prisoner which the PJ had given to Grade to deliver to the prison.
Correio da Manhã
18 April 2008
The arrest of the lawyer, 50, took place on Thursday afternoon as he prepared to visit two female inmates in prison Beja, which is no longer Leonor Cipriano, accused of the murder of his daughter and sentenced to 16 years in jail.
According to sources the GNR, the military security force detected amphetamines in individual doses equivalent to 45 and a quarter pill "ecstasy" amount.
The Court of Beja determined as a measure of coercion lawyer the disclaimer Identity and Residence (TIR).
"I'm stunned by the whole situation," he explained to Lusa attorney. João Grade dos Santos said the bags were delivered to him "to take them to one of the inmates, whose house, where they were, had been subject to searches by the Judicial Police."
"I hope that the case be clarified with the utmost urgency, to defend my good name and my honor," added the lawyer.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3500.msg126862#msg126862
Have you looked into what "The Court of Beja determined as a measure of coercion lawyer the disclaimer Identity and Residence (TIR)" means in simpler language?
I've seen the three letters "TIR" before, but now read they are "the disclaimer Identity and Residence".
Do you know how that disclaimer works?
-
TIR
English translation: "Declaration of Identity and Residence" https://www.proz.com/kudoz/portuguese_to_english/law_general/1492712-tir.html
-
so was the person who gave Grade the bag arrested or was it all swept under the carpet
Good question.
-
That paper is the equivalent of the sun.... Is, that the type of evidence you have.... Give it ti the police
Again.. Has amaral complained... No he hasn't.. It's all B.... IMO
Strange it was used by a supporter as strong source in a recently defunct post.
-
Strange it was used by a supporter as strong source in a recently defunct post.
then angelo should present the article to the PJ and ask them to investigate
-
Reminder ... the thread topic is "Should the Maddie enquiry be expanded?"
-
it was sort of on topic.
-
Everyone involved Robbie. Correia and M3 were merely tools in a devious plot to remove Amaral from the investigation. Portuguese lawyer John Grade has already made it known publicly that M3 approached him but he refused to cooperate with them. We know that Marcos Correia was then approached and that he took on the Cipriano case refusing to disclose who was paying him. The question is what on earth employing Correia has to do with finding Maddie?
I am writing this from memory.
It is my belief that Marcos Correia, as a young Lawyer, worked pro bono on the Cipriano case.
It is also my belief that he was very much encouraged, then supported, by Lawyer Marinho e Pinto to take on the Cipriano case. At that time Marinho e Pinto was The President of the Portuguese Bar Association. I got all the above info from Marcos personally when I corresponded with, then met him.
He later became a European MEP and more recently became the mainstay of the Portuguese political party, The Partido Democrático Republicano.
Marinho e Pinto has shown a keen interest in fighting corruption and supporting the under dog against injustices by The State.
I have wondered whether he was the third Lawyer in the Cipriano case. Do you remember, there was serious torture and things that didn't add up ... and there was one Lawyer who refused to find Leonor guilty. IMO Marinho de Pinto has the integrity, guts and drive to stand alone and fight injustice .... but I am just speculating here
Maybe Pinto was just influenced by the torture and unreasonable conclusions of some of the other State cases against the common Joe Bloggs of Portugal. Dunno
But I believe Marinho e Pinto, President of the Portuguese Bar, to have been the mentor behind Marcos taking on the Cipriano Case.
All from memory of about 8-9 years ago ... and NO, I am not providing cites. Take it or leave it as you wish
-
interesting Sadie.
-
It is for the authorities to establish what is evidence of a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. Anyone with good knowledge of the Maddie case will know exactly what went on. I want the police to establish who was pulling the strings and authorising payments to the private detective criminals for work which had no relevance to finding Maddie.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. I have read (and no doubt posted a link at some point) that M3 contributed to the cost of the dam search. If that's true, it's Madeleine-related, so I don't see an issue.
I find it plausible, but by no means confirmed, that M3 may have been interested in checking out any potential links between the disappearances of Joana and Madeleine - and that may be a lead that one or both of the current investigations have been looking at. If so, I don't have an issue with that either.
Beyond that, IMO, Marcos went off with his own personal agenda and personally I doubt that M3 had any more to do with him.
-
I'm not sure what you're talking about. I have read (and no doubt posted a link at some point) that M3 contributed to the cost of the dam search. If that's true, it's Madeleine-related, so I don't see an issue.
I find it plausible, but by no means confirmed, that M3 may have been interested in checking out any potential links between the disappearances of Joana and Madeleine - and that may be a lead that one or both of the current investigations have been looking at. If so, I don't have an issue with that either.
Beyond that, IMO, Marcos went off with his own personal agenda and personally I doubt that M3 had any more to do with him.
Then let’s hope that that’s what the files handed over to OG says because if not Metodo3/fund has a lot of explaining to do.
-
Then let’s hope that that’s what the files handed over to OG says because if not Metodo3/fund has a lot of explaining to do.
When were the PI files handed over? Sometime in 2010, I imagine? In my opinion Operation Grange have gleaned as much information from them as they contain and if any explanation was required, it has long since been well accounted for.
Not everyone involved in Madeleine's case is wedded to groundhog day ... in my opinion.
-
When were the PI files handed over? Sometime in 2010, I imagine? In my opinion Operation Grange have gleaned as much information from them as they contain and if any explanation was required, it has long since been well accounted for.
Not everyone involved in Madeleine's case is wedded to groundhog day ... in my opinion.
2010 ? You mean before the OG review ?
-
2010 ? You mean before the OG review ?
Absolutely not!
I refer to the scoping exercise which was ordered by the then Home Secretary Alan Johnson after lobbying by Kate and Gerry MacCann on Madeleine's behalf.
If you remember their request was particularly difficult to resist when as a result of testimony from Ricardo Paiva during the libel trial that information given to the Portuguese police concerning Madeleine had been filed and not investigated since her case was archived in 2008.
Two years when only the McCann PIs were looking for Madeleine McCann ... while the Portuguese police were sitting on a mine of information which had continued to be sent to them, but not passed on or acted upon by them.
Home Office launches secret review into Madeleine McCann's disappearance
By Robert Mendick9:00PM GMT 06 Mar 2010
The move follows the release of 2,000 pages of evidence last week which Portuguese detectives are accused of having failed to fully investigate.
According to sources close to the McCanns, Alan Johnson, the Home Secretary, has ordered officials to examine the 'feasibility' of British or Portuguese detectives looking afresh at all the evidence.
Kate and Gerry McCann met with Mr Johnson last year to plead for help in their search for Madeleine, who vanished without trace in May 2007 from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal.
The couple have also met with John Yates, the Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner, who has headed up a number of high profile inquiries in recent years.
He is said to be "sympathetic" and to have made "general offers of assistance".
The source said: "The latest we have heard from the Home Office is officials are undertaking a 'scoping exercise' to look into the possibility of a review of the case.
"They are looking at all the options. It is basically a feasibility study.
"Kate and Gerry met with Alan Johnson to request a review is done. Hopefully any political intervention can unlock obstructions that might be in the way."
Pressure is now being put on Portuguese authorities to agree in the first instance to a three-day review of the case that could be held at Interpol's headquarters in Lyon in France.
The McCanns will hope the Home Office can persuade their Portuguese counterparts to co-operate in a case review.
The review – were it to go ahead – would involve British police working with Portuguese counterparts as well as experts in child abduction across other European forces.
The Portuguese police have been heavily criticised for their handling of the case which led to detectives naming the McCanns, both doctors from Leicestershire, as arguidos – or suspects – in the case and accusing them of involvement in her disappearance.
Their arguido status was subsequently lifted and the police investigation shelved.
But with the senior officer in charge Goncalo Amaral now widely discredited and facing financial ruin after being sued for libel by the McCanns over a book he wrote, it may become harder for the Portuguese to refuse the request for a thorough review.
The revelation that possible leads – many passed to Portuguese police by the McCanns' own private detectives – had apparently been ignored will add to the clamour.
Last week, details emerged of a series of possible sightings of Madeleine, who was just three when she vanished.
Guilhermino Encarnacao, who was in charge of the Policia Judiciaria in the Algarve, died two weeks ago from stomach cancer.
Mr Encarnacao was convinced Madeleine had died in her parents' apartment and was a major source of a series of off the record briefings to journalists against the McCanns.
A Home Office spokesman said: "We can confirm that the Home Secretary had a private meeting with Kate and Gerry McCann.
"Leicestershire Police stand ready to co-ordinate and complete enquiries if further information comes to light in the UK; or if requested to do so by the Portuguese authorities, who continue to lead on the overall investigation."
The spokesman refused to discuss what talks took place at the meeting or whether there was the chance of a review of the evidence at Interpol.
The spokesman added: "We are not going to comment on the outcome of any private meeting with the McCanns."
Mr Yates was unavailable for comment. He led the cash for honours investigation and was also involved in a new inquiry into the murder of Julie Ward, who was murdered in Kenya in 1988.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/7384911/Home-Office-launches-secret-review-into-Madeleine-McCanns-disappearance.html
-
2010 ? You mean before the OG review ?
"remember their request was particularly difficult to resist when as a result of testimony from Ricardo Paiva during the libel trial that information given to the Portuguese police concerning Madeleine had been filed and not investigated since her case was archived in 2008."
Just about makes a person cry!
-
"remember their request was particularly difficult to resist when as a result of testimony from Ricardo Paiva during the libel trial that information given to the Portuguese police concerning Madeleine had been filed and not investigated since her case was archived in 2008."
Just about makes a person cry!
Keep on crying The British tax payer have spent £11 million and counting,still nothing to show for it except eliminating all and sundry.Perhaps there was nothing to investigate.
-
Keep on crying The British tax payer have spent £11 million and counting,still nothing to show for it except eliminating all and sundry.Perhaps there was nothing to investigate.
A child has gone missing, fate unknown. That is something to investigate IMO.
-
A child has gone missing, fate unknown. That is something to investigate IMO.
Maybe, but for how long ?
-
Maybe, but for how long ?
For as long as it takes IMO.
-
For as long as it takes IMO.
Not very realistic - IMO
-
Not very realistic - IMO
Many missing persons cases continue to be investigated for years after the victims first disappeared.
-
Not very realistic - IMO
It is low key at the moment.
-
It is low key at the moment.
is it...can you tell us what SC are investigating
-
Many missing persons cases continue to be investigated for years after the victims first disappeared.
Periodically reviewed, not continuously investigated.
-
is it...can you tell us what SC are investigating
Someone in Bulgaria or was it Bolivia? I think it was Bolivia in fact but the article had few details.
-
Many missing persons cases continue to be investigated for years after the victims first disappeared.
Actually no they aren't. The police only allocate resources to cold cases when some new information turns up.
-
Someone in Bulgaria or was it Bolivia? I think it was Bolivia in fact but the article had few details.
you dont know
-
you dont know
I suspect it is Bolivia for no one is dumb enough to get those two countries mixed up, other than by a Freudian slip.
-
Periodically reviewed, not continuously investigated.
Of course.
-
Someone in Bulgaria or was it Bolivia? I think it was Bolivia in fact but the article had few details.
I think it more likely to be in Bulgaria, than Bolivia.
The town mentioned, Kamen Bryag is in Bulgaria on the Black Sea. It is riddled with ancient caves and tunnels, and troglodytes live in them The Mediteranean Island where I looked for and believe I found pictures of Madeleine (based on my investigations) is also riddled with ancient tunnels. It has caves in high Cliffs that connect the sea up, presumably by steps to the mainland above.
Also it would be so easy to sail there pretty privately from the island where I believe I saw these pictures of Madeleine in 2012. The area is well off the beaten track for Brits.
I find SY's visit to Kamen Bryag very interesting.
-
I think it more likely to be in Bulgaria, than Bolivia.
The town mentioned, Kamen Bryag is in Bulgaria on the Black Sea. It is riddled with ancient caves and tunnels, and troglodytes live in them The Mediteranean Island where I looked for and believe I found pictures of Madeleine (based on my investigations) is also riddled with ancient tunnels. It also has caves in high Cliffs that connect the sea up, presumably by steps to the mainland above.
Also it would be so easy to sail there pretty privately from the island where I believe I saw these pictures of Madeleine in 2012. The area is well off the beaten track for Brits.
I find SY's visit to Kamen Bryag very interesting.
Interesting geography lesson Sadie but little to do with Madeleine and even less to do with the thread title.
-
Actually no they aren't. The police only allocate resources to cold cases when some new information turns up.
As far as I am aware the police never abandon a live case particularly a missing child case while there are still avenues of investigation open to them.
The fact that Madeleine's case is live suggests to me the police have not yet reached the end of the road as far as she is concerned and still have something worth investigation.
-
I had to really think hard to recall what "expanded" referred to. Topic.
-
As far as I am aware the police never abandon a live case particularly a missing child case while there are still avenues of investigation open to them.
The fact that Madeleine's case is live suggests to me the police have not yet reached the end of the road as far as she is concerned and still have something worth investigation.
The police don't have the resources to keep missing person cases live, they will only do so if specific leads become available to them. The Maddie case is only alive because certain influential individuals have exerted pressure upon the authorities to do so while other missing child cases are effectively abandoned.
-
The police don't have the resources to keep missing person cases live, they will only do so if specific leads become available to them. The Maddie case is only alive because certain influential individuals have exerted pressure upon the authorities to do so while other missing child cases are effectively abandoned.
I think you are wrong, Angelo.
Investigation into missing children cases continue for as long as there is evidence to be followed and are only 'effectively abandoned' when all active leads have petered out; unless or until new information comes to light which merits a fresh look at the investigation.
Which is what happened when two independent reviews were conducted into Madeleine McCann's archived case.
The case was reopened because evidence which had not been investigated was found; the fact they are still working on it suggests they haven't yet exhausted their enquiries into that evidence.
I suppose that could be considered expanding the investigation although in effect I think it was merely picking up the ball which had been put down and running with it.
-
Pot calling the kettle black! You seem to be saying much the same thing really.
-
I think you are wrong, Angelo.
Investigation into missing children cases continue for as long as there is evidence to be followed and are only 'effectively abandoned' when all active leads have petered out; unless or until new information comes to light which merits a fresh look at the investigation.
Which is what happened when two independent reviews were conducted into Madeleine McCann's archived case.
The case was reopened because evidence which had not been investigated was found; the fact they are still working on it suggests they haven't yet exhausted their enquiries into that evidence.
I suppose that could be considered expanding the investigation although in effect I think it was merely picking up the ball which had been put down and running with it.
I accept that Brietta but there isn't any new evidence in the Maddie case, SY are chasing deadends continually and getting nowhere fast. It's embarrassing really! In fact, I guarantee that they won't solve this case any time soon but go on spending cash all the same.
Meanwhile I'm looking forward to my trip to Faro.
-
IMO SY are no further on than where the PJ left it when it was archived. [through lack of cooperation]
-
IMO SY are no further on than where the PJ left it when it was archived. [through lack of cooperation]
Bloody shameful.
-
Bloody shameful.
It is - all the money that they have spent...on getting no further.
-
It is - all the money that they have spent...on getting no further.
It was the lack of cooperation that upsets me.
-
IMO SY are no further on than where the PJ left it when it was archived. [through lack of cooperation]
I don't know why SY are even involved as it is a Portuguese matter and they will always have primacy. There are post disappearance issues in this case which require investigating but SY have no intention of doing so. That proves to me that their motives for investigating at all are very questionable.
-
Absolutely not!
I refer to the scoping exercise which was ordered by the then Home Secretary Alan Johnson after lobbying by Kate and Gerry MacCann on Madeleine's behalf.
If you remember their request was particularly difficult to resist when as a result of testimony from Ricardo Paiva during the libel trial that information given to the Portuguese police concerning Madeleine had been filed and not investigated since her case was archived in 2008.
Two years when only the McCann PIs were looking for Madeleine McCann ... while the Portuguese police were sitting on a mine of information which had continued to be sent to them, but not passed on or acted upon by them.
Home Office launches secret review into Madeleine McCann's disappearance
By Robert Mendick9:00PM GMT 06 Mar 2010
The move follows the release of 2,000 pages of evidence last week which Portuguese detectives are accused of having failed to fully investigate.
According to sources close to the McCanns, Alan Johnson, the Home Secretary, has ordered officials to examine the 'feasibility' of British or Portuguese detectives looking afresh at all the evidence.
Kate and Gerry McCann met with Mr Johnson last year to plead for help in their search for Madeleine, who vanished without trace in May 2007 from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal.
The couple have also met with John Yates, the Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner, who has headed up a number of high profile inquiries in recent years.
He is said to be "sympathetic" and to have made "general offers of assistance".
The source said: "The latest we have heard from the Home Office is officials are undertaking a 'scoping exercise' to look into the possibility of a review of the case.
"They are looking at all the options. It is basically a feasibility study.
"Kate and Gerry met with Alan Johnson to request a review is done. Hopefully any political intervention can unlock obstructions that might be in the way."
Pressure is now being put on Portuguese authorities to agree in the first instance to a three-day review of the case that could be held at Interpol's headquarters in Lyon in France.
The McCanns will hope the Home Office can persuade their Portuguese counterparts to co-operate in a case review.
The review – were it to go ahead – would involve British police working with Portuguese counterparts as well as experts in child abduction across other European forces.
The Portuguese police have been heavily criticised for their handling of the case which led to detectives naming the McCanns, both doctors from Leicestershire, as arguidos – or suspects – in the case and accusing them of involvement in her disappearance.
Their arguido status was subsequently lifted and the police investigation shelved.
But with the senior officer in charge Goncalo Amaral now widely discredited and facing financial ruin after being sued for libel by the McCanns over a book he wrote, it may become harder for the Portuguese to refuse the request for a thorough review.
The revelation that possible leads – many passed to Portuguese police by the McCanns' own private detectives – had apparently been ignored will add to the clamour.
Last week, details emerged of a series of possible sightings of Madeleine, who was just three when she vanished.
Guilhermino Encarnacao, who was in charge of the Policia Judiciaria in the Algarve, died two weeks ago from stomach cancer.
Mr Encarnacao was convinced Madeleine had died in her parents' apartment and was a major source of a series of off the record briefings to journalists against the McCanns.
A Home Office spokesman said: "We can confirm that the Home Secretary had a private meeting with Kate and Gerry McCann.
"Leicestershire Police stand ready to co-ordinate and complete enquiries if further information comes to light in the UK; or if requested to do so by the Portuguese authorities, who continue to lead on the overall investigation."
The spokesman refused to discuss what talks took place at the meeting or whether there was the chance of a review of the evidence at Interpol.
The spokesman added: "We are not going to comment on the outcome of any private meeting with the McCanns."
Mr Yates was unavailable for comment. He led the cash for honours investigation and was also involved in a new inquiry into the murder of Julie Ward, who was murdered in Kenya in 1988.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/7384911/Home-Office-launches-secret-review-into-Madeleine-McCanns-disappearance.html
Ah the scoping exercise by Jim Gamble that Theresa May all but ignored.
I met Jim Gamble in a professional capacity a couple of weeks ago. Seemed a very cordial individual though I know he wasn’t universally popular within my workplace.
-
Ah the scoping exercise by Jim Gamble that Theresa May all but ignored.
I met Jim Gamble in a professional capacity a couple of weeks ago. Seemed a very cordial individual though I know he wasn’t universally popular within my workplace.
He has a very interesting past with the RUC Special Branch in Belfast.
-
He has a very interesting past with the RUC Special Branch in Belfast.
My granddad came from Belfast so we had a chat about that. He was actually quite flirty.
-
It is - all the money that they have spent...on getting no further.
That is a rather all encompassing statement making a conclusion which it is impossible for you to know anything about.
What is it about Madeleine McCann that there is so much objection to the fact that the police are actually looking for her after a gap of years?
-
I accept that Brietta but there isn't any new evidence in the Maddie case, SY are chasing deadends continually and getting nowhere fast. It's embarrassing really! In fact, I guarantee that they won't solve this case any time soon but go on spending cash all the same.
Meanwhile I'm looking forward to my trip to Faro.
When are you off?
-
If I was within 100 miles of amaral... And had the opportunity
To speak with him... I absolutely would
Angelo is going to Faro and has said he will arrange a meeting with amaral... I'm more than happy to meet both of them
-
So, do you think the Maddie enquiry should be extended?
-
So, do you think the Maddie enquiry should be extended?
Well it will be more than likely to be extended. It is more difficult to see it extended for whatever happened wasn't really in the UK area. IMO as you can tell.
-
So, do you think the Maddie enquiry should be extended?
As long as there are leads to be investigated of course.
-
As long as there are leads to be investigated of course.
Jolly good - we have found common ground. 8@??)(
-
Well it will be more than likely to be extended. It is more difficult to see it extended for whatever happened wasn't really in the UK area. IMO as you can tell.
I don't think it could be extended much more than it has been already and I'm not sure it is necessary anyway.
The deafening silence from the investigations suggests to me that there is evidence being firmed up ... or even negotiation to get Madeleine back ... but the lack of information in the public domain does not in my opinion equate with lack of action.
-
I don't think it could be extended much more than it has been already and I'm not sure it is necessary anyway.
The deafening silence from the investigations suggests to me that there is evidence being firmed up ... or even negotiation to get Madeleine back ... but the lack of information in the public domain does not in my opinion equate with lack of action.
In my opinion SY have failed to delver any results despite the digs near the beach in Praia da Luz and despite interviewing several other potential suspects. Given the propensity of this particular enquiry to leak like a sieve I believe we would have heard about it long ago if SY had come up with anything positive.
I think it should be expanded though and all those silent whispers put to bed for good.
-
In my opinion SY have failed to delver any results despite the digs near the beach in Praia da Luz and despite interviewing several other potential suspects. Given the propensity of this particular enquiry to leak like a sieve I believe we would have heard about it long ago if SY had come up with anything positive.
I think it should be expanded though and all those silent whispers put to bed for good.
Expanded in what way
-
Expanded in what way
Expanded to investigate other potential criminal ongoings naturally.
-
Expanded to investigate other potential criminal ongoings naturally.
surely not to be investigated by SY.....its surely the job of the PJ....IF there is anything to investigate.
-
surely not to be investigated by SY.....its surely the job of the PJ....IF there is anything to investigate.
I doubt very much if SY have the appetite to expand any investigation so you are right, it will be down to Portugal to do it.
-
I doubt very much if SY have the appetite to expand any investigation so you are right, it will be down to Portugal to do it.
So basically it won't get done, is that how you think of it?
-
I don't think it could be extended much more than it has been already and I'm not sure it is necessary anyway.
The deafening silence from the investigations suggests to me that there is evidence being firmed up ... or even negotiation to get Madeleine back ... but the lack of information in the public domain does not in my opinion equate with lack of action.
That would be amazing.
-
That would be amazing.
The fact we don't know what is going on doesn't mean that nothing is and I prefer to think of the positive solutions to that rather than the negative ... but I think there could also be negatives which would definitely widen the scope for expansion.
-
The fact we don't know what is going on doesn't mean that nothing is and I prefer to think of the positive solutions to that rather than the negative ... but I think there could also be negatives which would definitely widen the scope for expansion.
Everyday I'm looking forward to when Madeleine is found - Just the thought of someone thinking the same is rather amazing for me.
-
Everyday I'm looking forward to when Madeleine is found - Just the thought of someone thinking the same is rather amazing for me.
I think there may be a lot of us optimists around and given that we know of nothing to indicate otherwise I see absolutely no harm in hoping for the best for her.
-
I doubt very much if SY have the appetite to expand any investigation so you are right, it will be down to Portugal to do it.
Surely it would be that SY are the servants and PJ are the masters of this investigation. If SY find any definitive information which was strong enough to charge someone then they would alert the PJ. However, if the perpetrators were on mainland UK they can be charged and convicted in this country. Looking at the cases of 'Gary Glitter' and other paedophiles who go abroad to molest/ harass and rape children, they are arrested on their return.
-
I don't think it could be extended much more than it has been already and I'm not sure it is necessary anyway.
The deafening silence from the investigations suggests to me that there is evidence being firmed up ... or even negotiation to get Madeleine back ... but the lack of information in the public domain does not in my opinion equate with lack of action.
The deafening silence - could also mean they are no further on...imo
-
The deafening silence - could also mean they are no further on...imo
That's right we just don't know.
-
Anyone know who's official mouthpiece now that Rowley has retired ?
-
Anyone know who's official mouthpiece now that Rowley has retired ?
"friends of McCanns" etc...
-
"friends of McCanns" etc...
You get away with a lot but that is IMO a lie. Either that or it is a bad joke.
-
Surely it would be that SY are the servants and PJ are the masters of this investigation. If SY find any definitive information which was strong enough to charge someone then they would alert the PJ. However, if the perpetrators were on mainland UK they can be charged and convicted in this country.
In my opinion there is absolutely nothing to prevent Scotland Yard acting on their own case should there be evidence against anyone resident in Britain.
The Portuguese no doubt will take action against anyone resident in Portugal should they find evidence to support their case.
The problem may arise should suspects be resident and/or nationals of other jurisdictions.
-
In my opinion there is absolutely nothing to prevent Scotland Yard acting on their own case should there be evidence against anyone resident in Britain.
The Portuguese no doubt will take action against anyone resident in Portugal should they find evidence to support their case.
The problem may arise should suspects be resident and/or nationals of other jurisdictions.
Correct! I personally do not believe there was a paedophile gang stealing children... However, the possibility is if there was then it could be multinational as it is in exotic far east countries. That would really cause problems especially if they are not from the EU.
You get away with a lot but that is IMO a lie. Either that or it is a bad joke.
I thought a good reference 8**8:/: because in his absence we have been getting information from the papers from ...'sauces' &^^&*