Author Topic: The Bambers: Murder at the farm - Sky Crime documentary  (Read 44507 times)

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Offline Nicholas

Re: The Bambers: Murder at the farm - Sky Crime documentary
« Reply #45 on: September 15, 2021, 05:24:37 PM »
The CT statement reads,

Having done some preliminary work with them on a potential project, we were then advised by industry contacts that Mindhouse had somehow obtained crime scene photographs of the bodies of the deceased at the scene

they go on,

Police officers have disseminated distressing photographs of the deceased Bamber family to third parties…

Why ‘police officers’ and not for example Mike Teskowski or Giovanni Di Stefano ?

What paperwork did Aunt Agatha have?

I know she thinks she has/had ‘his most valuable possessions’ ⬇️


I would like to add that our 'friendship' ended solely due to the lies and self seeking antics of Tracy Brazier from the Innocent Group.   Her behaviour I found to be unsettling and most disturbing - I found myself on unfamiliar territory when having to defend myself against her lies in order to discredit me in the eyes of Jeremy and the Campaign.

Jeremy chose to question me regarding the false accusations made against me and when I felt him lying to me down the phone I chose to walk away from him.  He did not drop me - I dropped him!!

He was someone for whom I strongly believed was wrongly imprisoned, he was alone and the nation had turned their back on this 'child killer'.  I did what I could at the time, for many years, but I should honestly add it is nothing compared to what others have done recently using the web and new technology.

When our 'friendship' ended I was deeply saddened......and I was concerned for his own well being having become more aware of the 'new' people surrounding him.  Liars, self seeking and deluded bamberettes and clever manipulators.....but I could do nothing more to help him.  Whenever I informed him of 'their' antics he tried to assure me he knew exactly what these people were like and described alot of them just as I have here.

However, after almost 20 years of befriending this man, it came as somewhat of a relief to let others take over.  I felt responsible for him for many years and it was a weight lifted the day we parted.  Today, I only hope that those around him stay, as I did, when all else is lost.

I hold no resentment against Jeremy and will not attempt to make him out to be someone he is not.  I don't feel it necessary to post his letters, our photo's etc......it was a strange relationship at the time, as he was in prison, but during our time together he was a most decent and respectable man.

I have come to believe and understand that Jeremy makes decisions based solely upon the information he receives from other in the outside world.  If the information he receives comes from somebody who dislikes me or feels threatened by my position, then the information about me will be most negative. And, if that person can have Group members support her lies, by also writing to Jeremy, then I don't stand a chance.  I refused to play the game and walked away.  Quite happily.

Should he ever be released, then he will have to come and see me as I still hold his most valuable possessions from his family.....and his own.  The truth comes out in the end.....one may just have to wait many years, but I'm in no rush at all!

I hope this gives some insight into those 20 years and gives answers to questions so far unanswered.

Aunt Agatha
I have twin sons and I thought it too dangerous to have a rifle in the house

Bamber didn’t

Surely Aunt Agatha won’t have contacted Mindhouse?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 09:44:19 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Bambers: Murder at the farm - Sky Crime documentary
« Reply #46 on: September 15, 2021, 07:13:54 PM »
Looks like her...

If that is Poppy Ann Miller - have they got her walking along ‘Tolleshunt D'Arcy Sea Wall path’ again or is that another location? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bgPu4k6HE9A

I hope we are mistaken
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 07:19:06 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Bambers: Murder at the farm - Sky Crime documentary
« Reply #47 on: September 15, 2021, 07:37:35 PM »
Brett Collins to Kay Page
The lady that came with me and we found the lawyer for Jeremy. What turned out was that her younger sister was having an affair at the same time with Jeremy and she’s the girl that was in London with us at his sisters flat when she’d died and been buried. She answered the phone one day and it was Julie ringing to talk to him and his mistress answered   the phone and that’s what set the whole thing off

Did Brett Collin’s tell the police the above when he was arrested and interviewed?

What turned out was that her younger sister was having an affair at the same time with Jeremy’

Did Brett Collin’s always know of the ‘affair’ - which appears to mean Bamber was stringing both sisters along at the same time

According to BC latest interview (and Getty Images) that photo is of himself and Angela Greaves, Virginia's elder sister.  They both set out to find a lawyer for Jeremy.  Angela was thirty years old, six years older than Jeremy, had a previous affair with him, but it was Virginia, his latest squeeze who was at the Morshead Mansions flat when Julie rang and she answered the phone. Angela (Anji) posed as Jeremy's current girlfriend because Virginia was about to get married to another man and wanted to keep this info from the press.  That's how I understand it.

Brett does appear to be referring to Virginia (The younger Greaves sister) as Bamber’s ‘mistress’

She answered the phone one day and it was Julie ringing to talk to him and his mistress answered’

Anji Greaves didn’t apparently have a ‘previous affair’ with Bamber that apparently was Virginia Greaves

Why did Brett Collin’s refer to Bamber’s cheating as an ‘affair’ ?

Or was he referring to Virginia’s ‘affair’ because she was apparently due to marry?

And why didn’t he appear to recognise the ‘affair’ - at that time - would have included Julie?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 08:06:58 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Bambers: Murder at the farm - Sky Crime documentary
« Reply #48 on: September 15, 2021, 08:18:20 PM »
Brett Collins to Kay Page
About two weeks after this happening, the murders, she was about to get married to some guy she was engaged to but all that time she’d been having an affair with Jeremy. But they wanted to keep it from the press. So nobody actually knows this until now.

So did Virginia perjure herself in order for her fiancé to not learn she was cheating on him with Bamber?

Let’s hope Mindhouse have explored this with Brett Collins because ‘nobody actually knows this until now’


« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 08:20:59 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Bambers: Murder at the farm - Sky Crime documentary
« Reply #49 on: September 15, 2021, 09:08:42 PM »
If that is Poppy Ann Miller - have they got her walking along ‘Tolleshunt D'Arcy Sea Wall path’ again or is that another location? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bgPu4k6HE9A

I hope we are mistaken

Maybe she’s recognised Bamber to be the sadistic psychopath he is - presuming it’s her ?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 09:10:48 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Bambers: Murder at the farm - Sky Crime documentary
« Reply #50 on: September 15, 2021, 09:48:15 PM »
Brett Collins to Kay Page
About two weeks after this happening, the murders, she was about to get married to some guy she was engaged to but all that time she’d been having an affair with Jeremy. But they wanted to keep it from the press.[/i][/b]

By ‘they’ was Brett Collin’s referring to the Greaves sisters, Bamber, his legal team? Who did he mean exactly?
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Bambers: Murder at the farm - Sky Crime documentary
« Reply #51 on: September 15, 2021, 10:22:43 PM »
Will be interesting to learn if Mindhouse asks Brett Collins on camera whether or not he and Bamber had ‘bi-sexual’ sex - unless Bamber told Brett Collins he was ‘bi-sexual’ as opposed to having sex with Bamber for him to have established this

I presume Mindhouse will be aware of Brett Collin’s interview with Kay Page and of what he disclosed to her


Brett Collins
Originally there was more to our friendship when I first met him because I was bisexual also, and we just hit it off, way before I have met his girlfriend. His girlfriend and he weren’t actually what you’d call monogamous friendship. He had several girls at the same time, that all thought that they were his girlfriend. He was quite different in his sexuality. https://www.dropbox.com/s/11mghhbs3afi32m/Episode%20-%20Brett%20Collins.pdf?dl=0

Th CT team have recently claimed Brett Collin’s to be ‘a homosexual’

From approx 6:00 here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=159bxYsekQY

But he told Kay Page he’s ‘bisexual’

The CT also refer to a diary made by Robert Boutflour on 7th September 1985 where he refers to Bamber having apparently,

‘1. shacked up with 2 BOAC British overseas airways corporations stewards in their flat before catching a home bound plane after 10 days in the place. Gay’
2. His visit to New Zealand was short lived. He returned very suddenly in fact had to spend 10 days in Singapore or Hong Kong without a cent in his pocket. He met up with and shared a flat with 2 BOAC stewards. Gay.
3.Jim postulates that Jeremy had to leave New Zealand in a hurry. Why else would he have to spend 10 days in Hong Kong or Singapore without a cent in his pocket. He boasted he had met 2 BAOC stewards and shared their flat with them. Gay
4. He had been lent money to indulge on a world tour which took him to Australia’s and New Zealand. June had worried thst he had made friends with a man who had just come out of prison. On his return to this country he had refused to help on the Farm preferring to earn a wage as an assistant in the kitchen of a little chef at rivenhall end. At this time he was seen accompanying a young man with a feather in his ear and a gay relationship was suspected.


Maybe Mindhouse productions will question why HMPPS allegedly haven’t diagnosed Bamber as a psychopath for these past 3 plus decades.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 12:26:19 AM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Bambers: Murder at the farm - Sky Crime documentary
« Reply #52 on: September 15, 2021, 11:19:36 PM »
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=159bxYsekQY

There was also reference to Bamber being ‘a money hungry sexual predator’ - which sums him up fairly well alongside being a mass murderer and child killer

Will be interesting to hear what Robert Boutflour has to say during his forthcoming interview - he seems to have had Bamber well and truly sussed out
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 11:26:05 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Bambers: Murder at the farm - Sky Crime documentary
« Reply #53 on: September 15, 2021, 11:37:39 PM »

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=159bxYsekQY

The CT refer to a diary made by Robert Boutflour on 7th September 1985 where he refers to Bamber having apparently,

‘1. shacked up with 2 BOAC British overseas airways corporations stewards in their flat before catching a home bound plane after 10 days in the place. Gay’
2. His visit to New Zealand was short lived. He returned very suddenly in fact had to spend 10 days in Singapore or Hong Kong without a cent in his pocket. He met up with and shared a flat with 2 BOAC stewards. Gay.
3.Jim postulates that Jeremy had to leave New Zealand in a hurry. Why else would he have to spend 10 days in Hong Kong or Singapore without a cent in his pocket. He boasted he had met 2 BAOC stewards and shared their flat with them. Gay
4. He had been lent money to indulge on a world tour which took him to Australia’s and New Zealand. June had worried thst he had made friends with a man who had just come out of prison. On his return to this country he had refused to help on the Farm preferring to earn a wage as an assistant in the kitchen of a little chef at rivenhall end. At this time he was seen accompanying a young man with a feather in his ear and a gay relationship was suspected.


This pretty much ties in with what Brett Collins told Kay Page http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12056.msg648680#msg648680
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 11:40:33 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Bambers: Murder at the farm - Sky Crime documentary
« Reply #54 on: September 15, 2021, 11:59:57 PM »
There was also reference to Bamber being ‘a money hungry sexual predator’ - which sums him up fairly well alongside being a mass murderer and child killer

I suspect the police may well be aware of other violent offences committed by Bamber which he wasn’t prosecuted for, like the ‘incident’ involving the girl from the Chequers public house

There could well be others ….

Will Mindhouse highlight these?
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Bambers: Murder at the farm - Sky Crime documentary
« Reply #55 on: September 16, 2021, 09:07:40 AM »
‘Blonde beauty Anji Greaves told last night how she began 25 days of passion with farmhouse massacre beast Jeremy Bamber… two days after he buried the family he slaughtered.

‘Anji said she gave the callous killer “everything he wanted” to comfort him because she believed he was grief-stricken over the deaths of his relatives.

‘But Anji said Bamber’s lust for her also led to his downfall.

For it aroused jealous hatred in his scorned former girlfriend Julie Mugford.

Anji, an old friend of Bamber’s, though not an old lover, said he looked her up to satisfy his desire for older women.

He called on her at her flat in Kensington, West London, two days after his parents were buried.

‘And Bamber had been seen …”sobbing uncontrollably” at the funeral, Anji said.

We were just sat on the sofa watching videos and he made a pass. He put his arm around me and we kissed.

He told me he had been getting fed up with Julie and asked me how to tell her they were finished.

He said he really wanted to get married …

(By Kieron Saunders and Shan Lancaster for the Sun newspaper - 29th October 1986)

Sitting beside him was Angela Greaves, Virginia’s older sister. A beautician six years Jeremys senior, ‘Anji’ had quickly grown close to Jeremy following his visits with Virginia: ‘The poor chap was on Valium and he was drinking. He had nobody to turn to. His relatives were fighting over everything. It was awful, bloody awful’ Anji later told the Sun that she and Jeremy had become lovers before his arrest and it was their affair, rather than with her sister, that had led to Julie being so inflamed with jealousy that she named him as the murderer.”
“Regardless of what lay behind Julies motivations to go to the police, Anji was there to meet Jeremy upon his release.”


(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from her book, ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false

It’s a shame Carol Ann Lee didn’t appear to recognise killer Bamber was triangulating each and every person he came into contact with?

According to Anji Greaves interview following Bamber’s murder trial, reported by Kieron Saunders and Shan Lancaster, he was using another classic abuse tactic referred to as ‘hoovering’,  ‘He called on her at her flat in Kensington, West London, two days after his parents were buried.’

Bamber was also ‘hoovering’ Julie Mugford, Virginia Greaves (Anji’s sister) and he ‘hoovered’ people like Charles Marsden - on the day after he’d committed mass murder

‘Hoovering, hoovered, hoover manoeuvre ⬇️
The hoover maneuver is an attempt to see if a prior target of abuse can be conned into another cycle of abuse, resulting in the abusive person reclaiming a sense of power and control by causing pain (emotional and sometimes physical) to a target.
https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/hoover-maneuver-the-dirty-secret-of-emotional-abuse-0219154

’Got an Overbearing Ex? They Might Be Hoovering’ https://www.healthline.com/health/hoovering

Bamber’s note to Julie Mugford - whilst he was in prison on remand - was another ‘hoover manoeuvre’

Anji Greaves apparently received 100 odd letters from Bamber whilst he was in prison on remand waiting to stand trial - but I don’t suppose she was aware of the note he sent to Julie

Bamber hoovers ‘by proxy’ too

’5 Ways Malignant Narcissists 'Hoover' Their Victims’ https://psychcentral.com/blog/recovering-narcissist/2019/12/5-ways-malignant-narcissists-hoover-their-victims#1
This type of Hoover normally occurs when the narcissist has already drained his or her current sources of narcissistic supply or wants to tap into the resources of a prior victim. In order to regain control over the previous victim, the narcissist will claim that they “miss” and “love” you, that they simply cannot live without you, or that they need your help with something (usually a manufactured emergency or fabricated illness).

‘Narcissists may Hoover in a number of ways: by provoking the victim, waxing poetically about how they’ve changed, or even more sadistically, flaunting a new partner to their previous one after a particularly callous silent treatment or discard. Here are some of the most common ways they Hoover, and how to spot the signs you have been the victim of this manipulation:


Bamber did this ⬆️ to Colin Caffell http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11456.msg588414#msg588414

The most sadistic of narcissists will go out of their way to use their Hoover to inflict even more cruelty and damage on their former victims, especially if they see those victims start to move forward with their lives

Here’s the original blurb ⬇️ which suggests it will be portraying Bamber as guilty

‘The Bambers: Murder at the Farm (working title) examines the tragic murder of a family at a secluded English farmhouse in 1985. The three-part true-crime series uses first-hand testimony and unseen archive footage to reflect on the events and the conviction of Jeremy Bamber, who was brother to murdered mother Sheila Caffell.

Theroux, who executive produces alongside Arron Fellows, said: “A big part of wanting to start a production company a little over a year ago was to make programs that I don’t appear in… It’s a story that’s socially important, with a powerfully compelling narrative, and the intention is to tell it in a way that is both sensitive and creatively ambitious.

Will be interesting to see what story Louis Theroux & co deems to be ‘socially important’
« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 10:15:34 AM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Bambers: Murder at the farm - Sky Crime documentary
« Reply #56 on: September 16, 2021, 10:21:02 AM »
A documentary that looks at both the cult and the case of Bamber i would watch but it's fair to point out that we don't know what the tone and content will be yet. It's perhaps a good sign the CT are worried but remember, the CT complained about the ITV drama before it was aired because they weren't allowed to write and direct but actually, IMO, it oversimplified the case against him making his conviction look much weaker than it really is,

Agreed

In the 2002 Court of Appeal (CoA) judgement it’s stated at para 110 here http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html

She and the appellant spent the following weekend with Colin Caffell and on 12 August she went to the house in Goldhanger with the appellant. There he told her that the police had been a bit slack because they had not done all the fingerprinting at White House Farm. On 16 August Miss Mugford attended the funerals of Nevill and June Bamber with the appellant and then on 19 August the funerals of Sheila Caffell and her children. During that period the witness spoke of the appellant taking her out for frequent meals, and buying expensive clothes for himself and for her. She described the appellant's mood during this period as "very happy". After one of the funerals they drank champagne and cocktails.

What’s not factored into the above is what occurred on the 18th August when Bamber ‘hoovered’ Anji Greaves, the day before ‘the funerals of Sheila Caffell and her children’

‘Anji, an old friend of Bamber’s, though not an old lover, said he looked her up to satisfy his desire for older women.

He called on her at her flat in Kensington, West London, two days after his parents were buried.

‘And Bamber had been seen …”sobbing uncontrollably” at the funeral, Anji said.

We were just sat on the sofa watching videos and he made a pass. He put his arm around me and we kissed.

He told me he had been getting fed up with Julie and asked me how to tell her they were finished.

He said he really wanted to get married …

(By Kieron Saunders and Shan Lancaster for the Sun newspaper - 29th October 1986)

When Bamber told Anji Greaves ‘he had been getting fed up with Julie and asked me how to tell her they were finished’ did he tell Anji he had been taking Julie ‘out for frequent meals, and buying expensive clothes for himself and for her’ ?

Then at Para 111 from CoA judgement

Miss Mugford spent the weekend of 17-18 August 1985 with the appellant in Eastbourne and it was then that she began to ask how he could behave as he was doing. She kept telling him "Ł2,000 for five lives". The following week the couple went to Amsterdam for two days, staying in expensive hotels and eating out. On 27 August Miss Mugford returned alone to her lodgings in London and she told her friend Susan Battersby of what the appellant had done.

So after what was possibly an exhausting weekend in Eastbourne Bamber called on Anji Greaves ‘flat in Kensington, West London’

What did Anji Greaves think about Bamber taking Julie to ‘Amsterdam for two days, staying in expensive hotels and eating out’ on the 25th - 26th August after supposedly asking her ‘how to tell her they were finished’? And where did Bamber tell Anji he was when he went to Amsterdam and who did he tell her he was with?

Para 112
On Saturday 31 August Julie Mugford asked the appellant whether he loved her. He said he did not know. Again they spoke about the murders. Miss Mugford said she could not cope with him behaving so normally and asked why he had told her what had happened. She said she felt guilt for the two of them. The appellant told her he was doing everybody a favour and there was nothing to feel guilty about. Later that night the appellant told her that she was the best friend he had ever had and he had entrusted his life to her.

Para 113
On Tuesday 3 September the couple met again in London at the flat which had belonged to Sheila Caffell. Again Miss Mugford raised the question of their relationship and his part in the killing. During their conversation the appellant received a telephone call from an ex-girlfriend and Miss Mugford heard him asking her out. She became angry and threw an ornament box at a mirror and then slapped the appellant. He became very angry and twisted her arm up behind her back. Four days later, she went to the police

Was Virginia Greaves an ‘ex girlfriend’ when she allegedly phoned Bamber or was it at this time they were having ‘an affair’ ?

Brett Collins to Kay Page (https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz3kitv4d4xsh5i/Brett%20interview.pdf?dl=0)

’They were kind of part-time whenever he wanted sex* I gathered, she wasn’t, she hadn’t moved in. I don’t think he wanted her to move in because there were other girls that were coming and going

The lady that came with me and we found the lawyer for Jeremy. What turned out was that her younger sister was having an affair at the same time with Jeremy and she’s the girl that was in London with us at his sisters flat when she’d died and been buried. She answered the phone one day and it was Julie ringing to talk to him and his mistress answered   the phone and that’s what set the whole thing off

About two weeks after this happening, the murders, she was about to get married to some guy she was engaged to but all that time she’d been having an affair with Jeremy. But they wanted to keep it from the press. So nobody actually knows this until now.

I knew her through Jeremy and I knew her younger sister because she came and stayed with us in London in the townhouse.

She posed as Jeremy’s sort of other girlfriend but it wasn’t her at all it was her younger sister and they all went to ground just so they wouldn’t bring any heat on the sister that who was getting married’


*Julie made it clear in her evidence to police she was NOT having sex with Bamber

The ITV drama didn’t factor in any of the above.

Did Carol Ann Lee recognise these significant factors at the time of researching and writing her book?

It appears to me Virginia Greaves perjured herself to cover for both herself and her older sister Anji.
Anji’s ‘affair’ with Bamber would surely have caused issues between the sisters plus Virginia was seemingly ‘getting married’ to someone else.
This would also highlight Bamber’s further infidelities and behaviours patterns in that he was apparently sleeping with both sisters at/around the same time?]

What were Anji and Virginia Greaves told by Bamber, if anything, about the ‘incident’ when he ‘became very angry and twisted her arm up behind her back’ And if they were told anything by Bamber what did they tell the police?

And what was Brett Collins evidence given to police at the time and what does he say now?

Para 139 of CoA judgement

Apart from Julie Mugford the appellant suggested that other witnesses had told lies about him during the trial. They included Mrs Mugford, James Richards, Dorothy Foakes and Robert Boutflour.

What about Virginia Greaves lies?

Not read or seen any w/s of what either sister said.  Only CAL's interpretation of what occured...

'Brett called at the cafe to remind Jeremy that the antiques dealer was due, so they all returned to the flat.
While the dealer was looking through the items from the farm, the telephone rang.
Jeremy answered, speaking ‘in a friendly manner’ to the caller.
‘Who is it?’ Julie asked, growing suspicious.
‘Virginia,’ he said.
Julie knew at once that he meant Virginia Greaves, and asked him to put the phone down.
When he carried on talking, she cut the call herself.
They then began to argue and Jeremy admitted he was seeing Virginia.
When the telephone rang again and he answered it, Julie stormed through to Sheila’s bedroom.
‘I was so angry,’ she remembered. ‘I picked up a Chinese box of Jeremy’s and threw it against a mirror, which smashed.’
Still on the line, Virginia heard the splintering glass. ‘What’s that?’ she asked.
Jeremy replied, ‘Oh, Julie just smashing some plates up.’
There was another crash.
‘What’s that?’ asked Virginia again.
Julie’s just put her wrists through the window.
Shocked, Virginia told him definitely, ‘I don’t want anything to do with that and I’ll speak to you some time.’

And Bambers lies to Virginia Greaves - or was it Anji Greaves who phoned Bamber?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 08:59:06 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Bambers: Murder at the farm - Sky Crime documentary
« Reply #57 on: September 16, 2021, 11:35:28 AM »
A documentary that looks at both the cult and the case of Bamber i would watch but it's fair to point out that we don't know what the tone and content will be yet.

It’s possible the doc may touch on the cult like ‘high control group’ of Bamber and his fans 

Carol Ann Lee was subjected to a great deal of abuse - which could well get a mention?

https://twitter.com/shattenstone/status/1256170632670261248

Simon Hattenstone for the Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/30/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-seek-review-of-cps-refusal-to-disclose-evidence

Mass murderer, child killer & sexual predator Bamber stated at the time, ‘It is disgusting that a third party was provided with documents and sensitive photographs’ 🙄

Where did Mike Teskowski get his copies? What about that MP Andrew Hunter - where did he get his copies?

Some background https://www.panmacmillan.com/blogs/crime-thriller/an-unusual-correpondence

Carol Ann Lee
‘he states baldly that he can 'no longer write meaningful letters' about his case’

The above for me seems to be one of the ‘innocence’ fraudster/killer’s go to lines 🙄
« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 11:56:49 AM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Bambers: Murder at the farm - Sky Crime documentary
« Reply #58 on: September 16, 2021, 11:59:21 AM »

Virgina seemingly ‘posed as Jeremy’s sort of other girlfriend but it wasn’t her at all it was her younger sister’


Did Brett Collins actually mean Virginia Greaves ‘posed as Jeremy’s sort of other girlfriend but it wasn’t her at all it was her younger sister’ - when she gave evidence at Bamber’s murder trial?

Have Mindhouse TV tracked Virginia Greaves down for their forthcoming doc or has she, or her sister, made contact with them?

Could the Greaves sisters have got in touch with Mindhouse TV after watching the ITV drama?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 12:41:37 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Bambers: Murder at the farm - Sky Crime documentary
« Reply #59 on: September 16, 2021, 12:54:41 PM »
A documentary that looks at both the cult and the case of Bamber i would watch but it's fair to point out that we don't know what the tone and content will be yet. It's perhaps a good sign the CT are worried but remember, the CT complained about the ITV drama before it was aired because they weren't allowed to write and direct but actually, IMO, it oversimplified the case against him making his conviction look much weaker than it really is, at the same time raising the profile of the case for a while and of those interested in finding out more,

I thought the ITV drama ‘oversimplified’ Bamber’s psychopathic personality and behaviours at/around the time he committed the murders. They seemed to play down the calculating and deviant side to his personality.

I didn’t agree with Carol Ann Lee here
I don’t agree with CAL here https://theglobalherald.com/entertainment/television-entertainment/ep-3-the-evidence-the-murders-at-white-house-farm-the-podcast-hbo-max/ at around 28.00 Julie ‘knew’ that the murders he’d been talking about had happened that night

Hopefully the forthcoming doc will include first hand experiences of individuals who have walked in the similar shoes to people like Julie Mugford - who have first hand knowledge of the cognitive dissonance and denials experienced during and after a relationship with a sadistic psychopath like Bamber

For Carol Ann Lee to say Julie Mugford ‘knew’ Bamber had committed the murders was wrong and unfair

Carol Ann Lee talks about the ‘grey area’ regarding the phone but doesn’t appear to have considered or understood the ‘grey areas’ when it comes to being in a relationship with a psychopathic killer

For context from around 26:00 ⬇️
https://theglobalherald.com/entertainment/television-entertainment/ep-3-the-evidence-the-murders-at-white-house-farm-the-podcast-hbo-max/

Julie Mugford would NOT have known her boyfriend had just murdered 5 members of his family!

And for me Carol Ann Lee was wrong to ever suggest this publicly like she did

It’s not as black and white as, ‘so she knew the murders that he’d been talking about had happened that night’

Carol Ann Lee even appeared to give a subtle emphasis on the word ‘knew’ - which for me I found telling
« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 01:38:31 PM by Nicholas »
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