Author Topic: Did dissociative amnesia play a part in the chaos the night Maddie disappeared?  (Read 5172 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline John

Did dissociative amnesia play a part in the chaos the night Maddie disappeared?

Some of the reported events which occurred the night Madeleine disappeared are open to interpretation once the actual evidence is examined.  The Portuguese police officers who first attended the Ocean Club that night called in the Policia Judiciaria (detectives) because they felt something just wasn't right. According to these GNR officers, the tapas group were scared, jumpy and nervous. The parents were exibiting signs of extreme stress which manifested itself in them wailing on the bed and the floor.  They'd all been drinking, they weren't falling over but it was hard to deal with them. It was hard to get any sense out of them about a possible abduction.

Given that background, it is not surprising therefore that people become confused and disorientated. Witnesses recall events differently at the best of times but in the midst of a possible child abduction scenario, panick and fear take over, logic sails merrily out the window, memories become tainted.  Once the dust had settled and witness statements had been taken, it became clear that there were many discrepancies between witnesses.

Three events in particular involving Madeleine's parents were to become of particular interest to investigators. The route taken by Gerry McCann between the tapas restaurant and his apartment at around 9pm. The encounter he had with Jeremy Wilkins outside the apartment at about 9.15pm and the report by Kate McCann that when she checked the apartment  just after 10pm that she found the children's bedroom window fully open and the outside shutter raised.

GM in his first statement claimed that he had gained entry to his apartment via the front door which required a key to gain entry. His second statement made reference to this event but this time he agreed that entry had been made from the rear of the apartment via an unlocked patio door. Clearly this was an example of memory lapse.

The second event occurred some 15 minutes later after Gerry McCann left the apartment.  According to GM, he saw an holidaymaker approaching and crossed the road to chat to him for a few minutes. According to this holidaymaker, identified as Jeremy Wilkins, it was he who crossed the road to speak to GM who remained on the pavement.  Another witness and a member of the tapas group, identified as Jane Tanner, corroborated JW's version of the event and claimed that she slipped past both men as they chatted. Clearly, at least one of the three had suffered a memory malfunction.

The final event is the most interesting. The missing child's mother, Kate McCann, has always insisted that when she went to check on the children in the apartment at around 10pm, that she found the curtains billowing in the wind, the bedroom window fully slid across and the window shutter fully raised. Forensic examination of the window and its surrounds however found only Kate McCann's fingerprints on the window and in such a position which suggested that it was she who had opened it.  There were no signs that the shutter or window had been tampered with and no evidence whatsoever that any intruder had gained entry to the apartment. Was this yet another example of a memory loss brought about by severe trauma?

Were these events actually examples of a phenomenon called 'dissociative amnesia' or 'memory loss'. Dissociation is a natural response to a trauma over which an individual has no control, it is known that the condition is aggravated by the consumption of alcohol.

Could it be that the trauma suffered by Madeleine's parents on the night she disappeared was sufficient to trigger this condition resulting in loss of some memory of events while others remain confused.  In clinical terms, retrograde amnesia sufferers may partially regain memory later, but memories are never regained with anterograde amnesia because they were not encoded properly. Memories from just before the trauma are often completely lost, partly due to the psychological repression of unpleasant memories (psychogenic amnesia), and partly because memories may be incompletely encoded if the event interrupts the normal process of transfer from short-term to long-term memory.

Please discuss.


71
« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 11:31:18 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Mr Gray

Memory block impossible  .....Imo
That's how far you have to go to make your theory possible

If the window was open it points to a third party in the, apartment.... Abduction.. Imo
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 06:11:09 PM by John »

Offline sadie

Memory block impossible  .....Imo
That's how far you have to go to make your theory possible

If the window was open it points to a third party in the, apartment.... Abduction.. Imo
Agreed

And that either rubber/plastic gloves were worn, or somone clleaning off all the places where their fingerprints might have been.

I believe the front door was unlocked and opened, then closed, using the key alone.  No finger prints would be there then

IMO

Offline Mr Gray

All those who think abduction is impossible need to remember a child was, abducted from her bath in seconds whilst her mother was in another room

Offline Mr Gray

No because it is off topic as is trying to bring vaguely similar cases into the discussion. The topic is evidence of abduction in this case.

I disagree.... Evidence of abduction includes the exclusion of all other scenarios to indirectly prove abduction..

Offline Angelo222

Memory block impossible  .....Imo
That's how far you have to go to make your theory possible

If the window was open it points to a third party in the, apartment.... Abduction.. Imo

You would deny the wailing mullah incidents too had they not been independently recorded, all of which goes to show your own agenda behind your comments.

Temporary memory loss following a trauma or shock is also well documented. The other alternative is pretty obvious. Gerry's inability to remember how he gained entry to 5a around 9pm or which side of the road he was on when he chatted with Jez Wilkins shortly afterwards appears to be yet further examples of unexplained memory loss but you keep on denying it as you usually do.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 06:15:05 PM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Mr Gray

You obviously haven't read the thread on temporary memory loss following a trauma.  The only other alternative is obvious.

I have... And I think the idea in this case us ridiculous... Are you trying to suggest Kate opened the windows and shutters then she forgot all about it.... Ridiculous  speculation imo

Offline Angelo222

I have... And I think the idea in this case us ridiculous... Are you trying to suggest Kate opened the windows and shutters then she forgot all about it.... Ridiculous  speculation imo

Gerry forgot the details of two events that night so why not his Mrs?   8(0(*
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Mr Gray

You would deny the wailing mullah incidents too had they not been independently recorded, all of which goes to show your own agenda behind your comments.

Temporary memory loss following a trauma or shock is also well documented. The other alternative is pretty obvious. Gerry's inability to remember how he gained entry to 5a around 9pm or which side of the road he was on when he chatted with Jez Wilkins shortly afterwards appears to be yet further examples of unexplained memory loss but you keep on denying it as you usually do.

Could you provide a cite as to how this could have occurred... I'm afraid afaics you are totally misinformed

Offline Angelo222

Could you provide a cite as to how this could have occurred... I'm afraid afaics you are totally misinformed

Again it is you who is misinformed.  I suggest you read up on emotional memory loss, amnesia and PTSD.  Or maybe you can come up with another reason why Jane Tanner and Jeremy Wilkins both disagreed with Gerry McCann's version of events which occurred moments before Maddie disappeared?

Here is a link to get you started...    Happy reading   8((()*/

http://www.human-memory.net/disorders_psychogenic.html
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 06:36:42 PM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Mr Gray

Again it is you who is misinformed.  I suggest you read up on emotional memory loss, amnesia and PTSD.  Or maybe you can come up with another reason why Jane Tanner and Jeremy Wilkins both disagreed with Gerry McCann's version of events which occurred moments before Maddie disappeared?

Here is a link to get you started...    Happy reading

http://www.human-memory.net/disorders_psychogenic.html

The affects are temporary  and there is no well documented cases of complete loss of memory if particular events... Your claims are without foundation
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 07:47:25 PM by John »

Offline Angelo222

The affects are temporary  and there is no well documented cases of complete loss of memory if particular events... Your claims are without foundation

You're obviously out of your depth on that one.  In my honest opinion of course.  And much that I would like to humour you I really must go.  Chaow
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 07:47:43 PM by John »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline John

You're obviously out of your depth on that one.  In my honest opinion of course.  And much that I would like to humour you I really must go.  Chaow

From a previous discussion, memory loss resulting from emotional shock or trauma is called psychogenic or dissociative amnesia and can increase with drinking alcohol.

During a traumatic experience such as an accident, disaster or crime victimization, dissociation can help a person tolerate what might otherwise be too difficult to bear. In situations like these, a person may dissociate the memory of the place, circumstances or feelings about of the overwhelming event, mentally escaping from the fear, pain and horror. This may make it difficult to later remember the details of the experience, as reported by many disaster and accident survivors.

For a parent, finding one of your children has disappeared from her bed and has disappeared could well trigger such a condition. 
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 07:16:54 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Mr Gray

From a previous discussion, memory loss resulting from emotional shock or trauma is called psychogenic or dissociative amnesia and can increase with drinking alcohol.

It does not produce the effects you and Angelo suggests as you will see if you read the link Angelo posted.

Kate was quite clear about the open window and shutter.. And other details... Your claims do not stack up.. Imo
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 07:21:45 PM by John »

Offline John

It dies not produce the effects you and Angelo suggests as you will see if you read the link Angelo posted.

Kate was quite clear about the open window and shutter.. And other details... Your claims do not stack up.. Imo

Short-term amnesia is a side effect of the condition brought about by sudden horror or trauma.  To deny such will be viewed as thread disruption.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 07:49:37 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.