UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Robittybob1 on February 02, 2018, 07:06:43 AM
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Add posts of things you would liked checked if you had the opportunity to go to PdL.
1. Define the cul-de-sac that Russell O'Brien talks about.
2. The height of the garden walls?
3. Can the garden walls be climbed over, by adults or by kids?
4 Visibility at 9:00, 9:15 and 10:00 PM on the 3rd of May. (lux meter required)
5. distance of side gate to footpath of the top road.
6. How is the Tapas reception secured at night? Can the access card always open it?
7. How is the door at the secondary reception held open?
8. Measure the dimensions of the kids bedroom window.
9. I want to know if the units had air conditioning.
10. I want to see how noisy the front door is compared to the sliding door.
11. I want to see how effective the public patio of block 6 would be for viewing apartment 5A (Sadie's theory).
12. Has the back garden of the most westerly apartment got a gate thru onto the alleyway?
13 Madeleine in an excited moment running off she somehow got into the back garden of the most westerly apartment. - follow the likely route she took
14. Stand in the recess along the roadside wall and sense whether it is a suitable temporary hiding place.
15. Walk the distance between the Tapas and the 24 hour reception, and time the walk.
16. Find the short cut to the 24 hour reception and time the walk.
17. Know where the Kids club was.
18. Know where the night creche was situated
19. Know where the Toddlers creche was.
20. Understand the pattern of searches the Tapas 7 made immediately after Kate's alarm.
21. Do the walk from apartment 5A front door to passageway between Blocks 4 and 5, down alleyway and down to reception door at 9:45 PM at night. (imagine being Madeleine)
22. Attend a Sunday service at the local church in PdL (Church of Nossa Senhora da Luz).
23. Would the curtains at the patio door self close behind a 4 year old?
24. I want SiL to show me where the blood was found along the foot path 500 meters or so away.
25. Can the front door be slammed shut?
26. Purchase an Italian style rim lock of the type in the apartment
27. Can it be modified?
28. From where Kate was standing when Kate opened the door after it slammed shut, From that standing position how much of Madeleine's bed could she possibly see?
29. "No staff member mentions the task of locking up for the night." Find out who locks up st the end of the night.
30. "As,for the patio doors, I doubt they had an external handle and would need to be left open a fraction to enable someone to get their fingers between the door and door frame, in order to slide the door open." How was the patio door open from the outside?
31. How were the orders taken at the Tapas Restaurant? "A waitress takes the orders you don't write them anywhere" was that true?
32. How difficult is it to open the patio doors. I was thinking we could measure that in terms of force with a spring balance.
33. SiL could take us along the route Smithman took. Understand that one. Do that walk at 10:00 PM at night.
34 Discover where Smithman could have gone after passing the Smiths.
35 "take a set of pale pink pjs with you so you can see if it's possible to tell the colour from a distance." That is a type of reconstruction. OK it could be done across the top road. (validating Tanner's sighting.)
36 This suggestion from Angelo is just so great. "One thing you could do is ask around the locals to see what they really think about the case as we've heard so many conflicting stories. A chat with Malinka or even Murat would be a bonus." SiL knows Malinka's mother. Robert Murat just lives up the road.
37 I would like to have chat with Silvia Batista if that was possible? (speaks English and Portuguese) "964098114 This mobile number was noted as belonging to Silvia Batista."
38 Where is/was Chaplin's Bar?
39 Walk the alleyway at the back of the apartments, at night, to assess whether Jane and others would walk that way to their apartments after dark. https://youtu.be/tUHp85TyJ0Y
40. We could check out a series of items associated with the Smith Family. "— That he has an apartment in Luz, Lagos, located in the Estela da Luz Urbanizaco, A1C" Where is his apartment?
41. "he went with his family to the Dolphin restaurant in Praia da Luz where they dined. " Where is the Dolphin restaurant?
42. "they left the restaurant and headed toward 'Kelly's Bar'; about a 50 metre distance from the restaurant" Where is Kelly's Bar? ("This bar is located on Calheta Street.")
43. Check the directions and places mentioned here "— After leaving the bar, he travelled in the opposite direction and reached a set of stairs which gave access to Rua 25 de Abril (25th of April Street). On this artery they followed a second street, parallel to Rua 1 de Maio (1st of May Street) whose name he does not remember. He was heading toward his apartment (Estrela da Luz complex) which is located a little above the street Travessa da Escola Primária (Primary school crossing)"
44. I would like to know the layout of the buildings and their names/function e.g was is the Tapas Restaurant and what is the esplanade, where the walk-in chiller is at the Tapas?
45 Is it possible to put place names on the 5 kitchens Arlindo speaks of? "is employed as executive chef of the kitchen. He clarifies that along with being responsible for the five (5) kitchens (one of whom is the Tapas) of the Ocean Club, his post essentially centres on the principal kitchen next to a reception, close to the restaurant MIRAGE. His work takes him occasionally to the other kitchens;"
46. Where was Clement Freud's apartment?
47 ask the locals if the McCanns carried on enjoying themselves after Madeleine went missing, and ask if they received free drink and food at the complex.
48 Meet some ex-pats in particular Gail Cooper if possible. Do you know her SiL?
49. Find out if Amy Brooks is still in PdL
50. Visit the marina a Lagos to understand systems for registering departures and arrivals.
51. Rua d'Escola which Smithman was walking down when Martin saw him as being rather steep. Please check it out how steep it was when you visit PdL,
52. I must estimate the effect of the curved end of the wall affecting the apparent length of the wall surrounding the car park.
53. is there ANY door between the passageway and the pool area?
48 left to list.
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Add posts of things you would liked checked if you had the opportunity to go to PdL.
1. Define the cul-de-sac that Russell O'Brien talks about.
2. The height of the garden walls?
3. Can the garden walls be climbed over, by adults or by kids?
4 Visibility at 9:00, 9:15 and 10:00 PM on the 3rd of May. (lux meter required)
5. distance of side gate to footpath of the top road.
6. How is the Tapas reception secured at night? Can the access card always open it?
7. How is the door at the secondary reception held open?
What have Scotland yard actually been doing.
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What have Scotland yard actually been doing.
I doubt if they will be in PdL. I'll be surprised if they are.
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Rob, I'm sure you'd love to help discover what happened to her as much as everyone would, whatever the views. And I can understand that you'd like to see the place for yourself. However, TBH, I really don't see what an expensive trip from your neck of the woods would actually achieve.
Add posts of things you would liked checked if you had the opportunity to go to PdL.
1. Define the cul-de-sac that Russell O'Brien talks about.
2. The height of the garden walls?
3. Can the garden walls be climbed over, by adults or by kids?
Rob, re above 3, SIL lives not that far away and could possibly find time to check that if asked nicely.
4 Visibility at 9:00, 9:15 and 10:00 PM on the 3rd of May. (lux meter required)
IMO, that would be virtually impossible: the street lights have changed from older ones to more "modern" ones; the fact that the big tree has since been chopped down; the projector on the building wasn't there at the time... would make that pointless now.
5. distance of side gate to footpath of the top road.
Someone more conversant than me could find that on Google maps... and some have probably already posted that info.
6. How is the Tapas reception secured at night? Can the access card always open it?
7. How is the door at the secondary reception held open?
IMO, the secondary reception may well have changed since then. One indication is that I believe SIL said that the restaurant was now a pizzeria. Has it changed ownership? Is it now open to anyone? Is there even a secondary reception? If so, I don't see how you'd check now on how it was run then.
8. Measure the dimensions of the kids bedroom window.
SIL might be willing to do that. The PJ have no doubt also taken measurements while they were there.
9. I want to know if the units had air conditioning.
I'm not quite sure why you're interested in air conditioning, but I expect you have a reason. How would actually going there help you to find the answer to that? IMO, there wasn't as I've never seen any indication of one either in the photos of the interior, nor on the outside.
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There are 3 or 4 panels by the front door and there is an unexplained cavity in the kids bedroom, are these air conditioning ducts? I just can't find the right image. Just now.
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There are 3 or 4 panels by the front door and there is an unexplained cavity in the kids bedroom, are these air conditioning ducts? I just can't find the right image. Just now.
air conditioning ducts are usually in large communal buildings not in small private apartments
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air conditioning ducts are usually in large communal buildings not in small private apartments
As in hotels, etc., yes.
In my experience (not in PT), residential buildings are sometimes mixed... now - i.e., relatively little communal air-conditioning, and mostly left to individual choice. And that's the opposite of winter heating that I've found to be mostly communal or, now, sometimes individual.
The person best placed to answer that question would be the architect, I would have thought.
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Cavity in 5A:
In the corner in the kids bedroom where the window is there is a step in the wall two cupboards but they don't go all the way to the wall, in fact that corner is right beside the front door. It must be that corner that has the air conditioning ducts or are they laundry chutes . I'm not sure what I'm seeing.
See where it says Porta de entrada arrow 12 o'clock position from that arrow is the wardrobe wall of the kids bedroom, there is a square cavity and no door to it. The wall on the exterior has panels on it. I haven't saved that photo sorry.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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It might have been photos on Gerry McCanns Blogs. I think the photos there are not picked up by Google and hence not in Google images. That is frustrating for then how do you navigate around that enormous site.
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i think your journey has no point and dont see why others would want to fund you.....If I wanted to go I would fund it myself
That is hardly a plan is it! There are things to check out, so plan how to get there.
Plan 1. Get SiL to do it for me? Not that easy to get others to do things they don't quite agree with.
Plan 2. "Do it yourself". But it has to be worth while.
It could be worthwhile if say there were 100 different things to check - each bit of information would cost 50 Euro. Pretty cheap really.
Plan 3. ......?
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Cavity in 5A:
In the corner in the kids bedroom where the window is there is a step in the wall two cupboards but they don't go all the way to the wall, in fact that corner is right beside the front door. It must be that corner that has the air conditioning ducts or are they laundry chutes . I'm not sure what I'm seeing.
See where it says Porta de entrada arrow 12 o'clock position from that arrow is the wardrobe wall of the kids bedroom, there is a square cavity and no door to it. The wall on the exterior has panels on it. I haven't saved that photo sorry.
Those are utility meters.
There is no air conditioning unit.
Laundry got chucked down the stairwell to the block.
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I have thought bout going out of curiosity but it sounds like an absolute dump now....pools empty....very run down evidently...not mush of a place to go on holiday
It never was much of a place in comparison to other resorts on The Algarve.
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It never was much of a place in comparison to other resorts on The Algarve.
Strange place for a bunch of young upwardly mobile professionals to go.
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Strange place for a bunch of young upwardly mobile professionals to go.
I think it was a decent place to go 11 years ago
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I think it was a decent place to go 11 years ago
Not according to Eleanor.
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Not according to Eleanor.
I think the activities that were organised appealed to the mccanns....
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It never was much of a place in comparison to other resorts on The Algarve.
Presumably then you think the McCanns choice was poor and that they should not have thought Luz family friendly enough or safe enough to leave the patio doors unlocked?
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Presumably then you think the McCanns choice was poor and that they should not have thought Luz family friendly enough or safe enough to leave the patio doors unlocked?
Thats exactly what the mccanns thought...but you would know that if you have followed the case
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If Robbity ever makes it out to Luz, I will be happy to show him the bits that count, both in 2007 and 2018.
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Add posts of things you would liked checked if you had the opportunity to go to PdL.
1. Define the cul-de-sac that Russell O'Brien talks about.
2. The height of the garden walls?
3. Can the garden walls be climbed over, by adults or by kids?
4 Visibility at 9:00, 9:15 and 10:00 PM on the 3rd of May. (lux meter required)
5. distance of side gate to footpath of the top road.
6. How is the Tapas reception secured at night? Can the access card always open it?
7. How is the door at the secondary reception held open?
8. Measure the dimensions of the kids bedroom window.
9. I want to know if the units had air conditioning.
10. I want to see how noisy the front door is compared to the sliding door.
11. I want to see how effective the public patio of block 6 would be for viewing apartment 5A (Sadie's theory).
12. Has the back garden of the most westerly apartment got a gate thru onto the alleyway?
13 Madeleine in an excited moment running off she somehow got into the back garden of the most westerly apartment. - follow the likely route she took
14. Stand in the recess along the roadside wall and sense whether it is a suitable temporary hiding place.
15. Walk the distance between the Tapas and the 24 hour reception, and time the walk.
16. Find the short cut to the 24 hour reception and time the walk.
17. Know where the Kids club was.
18. Know where the night creche was situated
19. Know where the Toddlers creche was.
20. Understand the pattern of searches the Tapas 7 made immediately after Kate's alarm.
21. Do the walk from apartment 5A front door to passageway between Blocks 4 and 5, down alleyway and down to reception door at 9:45 PM at night. (imagine being Madeleine)
22. Attend a Sunday service at the local church in PdL (Church of Nossa Senhora da Luz).
23. Would the curtains at the patio door self close behind a 4 year old?
24. I want SiL to show me where the blood was found along the foot path 500 meters or so away.
25. Can the front door be slammed shut?
26. Purchase an Italian style rim lock of the type in the apartment
27. Can it be modified?
28. From where Kate was standing when Kate opened the door after it slammed shut, From that standing position how much of Madeleine's bed could she possibly see?
73 left to list.
I think you have to be realistic Rob. Access to 5a will probably be impossible and in any event things have changed in the last ten years. We know where all the creche's were located so I cannot understand you including this in your list? I think you need to weed out the items which will be impossible to achieve as well as those which have already been determined.
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I think you have to be realistic Rob. Access to 5a will probably be impossible and in any event things have changed in the last ten years. We know where all the creche's were located so I cannot understand you including this in your list? I think you need to weed out the items which will be impossible to achieve as well as those which have already been determined.
I'm not ruling out access to 5A until the owner actually tells us that himself.
Creches - I was just wondering how likely it would be that Madeleine tried to walk there herself. It might only take 10 minutes to tick that one off.
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SIL, you will show him that view that you claim Smithman would have had as he exited The Staff Quarters (SQ), wont you? The view all the way down Rua d'Escola, past the dog leg junction and down several flights of steps to the Dolphin Restaurant.
The view that you claim, in your blog, convinced you that Smithman was a bonafide father with his child, because you say that if he was a baddie, he wouldn't have started the walk down if he saw people coming up the road
BTW,
Did you factor into your thoughts that a baddie would have tried to keep in the dark rather than the light. To do that he had to slink along the front of the Staff quarters because of the street lamp approx 20 metres opposite. From the SQ itself he had absolutely no view down to see anyone coming up due to the next building jutting out
To have any chance of seeing down to the Dolphin as you claim, because of this and the dog leg in the roads, Smithman had to cross across to the lampost opposite the Staff Quarters. This was almost 20 metres in the wrong direction.
Now if Smithman was exiting the S.Q, and up to no good, would he head straight for the lamp, or would he slink down in the dark? Once started on his route he had the shock of seeing some old fogies coming up, but carried on, IMO, hoping that no-one would remember him.
Please remember that the positions that we all know that the groups of the Smith family were stationed, were not the positions that they were in at the start of Tannermans walk from the SQ. They were all moving and most probably both Martin and Aoifes group were out of sight on the steps when Tannerman set out.
This is just a theory and i have worked it out from GE.
Please check it out Rob.
Am in a rush. Not back today. Use GE and chew it over pls.
I presume you mean Smithman, not Tannerman, but I have left your quote unaltered.
I would be happy to show anyone the the view from Travessa das Escadinhas to Rua da Escola Primária and vice versa. I have already done one such check on a Luz Tour, trying hard to emulate the Smithman sighting.
I presume by staff quarters you mean Pedras Brancas.
If I have given the impression that one can see from Pedras Brancas to the foot of Travessa das Escadinhas, then desculpe. I have never checked that out. The gradient flattens out around Pedras Brancas, so the truth of the matter is that I suspect it is unlikely, but I just don't know.
I am of the opinion one can see from well before where Peter Smith passed Smithman, to the corner at Fernando´s/the Dolphin. Anne Guedes has commented on my blog that she has visited Luz and she thinks otherwise.
The crucial point for me is that Smithman could see the Smiths coming, had ample places to hide, yet chose to walk past the group.
Sadie, if you want to discuss the Smithman sighting further, please bump a Smithman thread, and I will be most happy to engage in further conversation. Otherwise, I fear we are diverting Robbity's thread.
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@Robittybob
5A is owned by an English lady, not a man.
http://www.ocean-country.com/property-for-sale/apartment-lagos-praia-da-luz/51 (Ground floor apartment at
far west end of Block 4)
http://www.ocean-country.com/property-for-sale/apartment-lagos-praia-da-luz/235 (2nd floor apartment in Block 5? with air con)
Some apartments seem to have air con, others don't.
Some photos here of pathways around Blocks 4 & 5
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6520.0
There is a gate in the side wall of 5F (ground floor far west) into the alley/pathway separating Blocks 4 & 5 but I can't locate it right now.
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I think you have to be realistic Rob. Access to 5a will probably be impossible and in any event things have changed in the last ten years. We know where all the creche's were located so I cannot understand you including this in your list? I think you need to weed out the items which will be impossible to achieve as well as those which have already been determined.
I think Rob should go the opposite way and try to get his wish-list above 100 items.
There are bits on his wish-list that do not need a visit to Luz.
There are bits on his wish-list that I can do without anyone visiting.
There are bits on his wish-list that need to be experienced first hand.
There are bits on my wish-list that I hope to squeeze in this year. I want to go to the working mens club in Portelas to ask a few questions. I also want to talk to Paulo R, Ricardo R and Carlos d S, and Vitor d S. Maybe Sergey as well.
The example you have picked is an eye-opener. The McCanns short route to Madeleine's creche is a nightmare. There is a slightly longer route that is much safer. And one by the main roads. One would need to try all 3 routes to form an opinion of what was going on.
If you can squeeze a couple of days into a Luz visit, please let me know and I will be happy to walk my legs off.
As Robbity has explained, I have lots lined up in 2018. In particular, 4 May (note 4, not 3) will be spent with my family.
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@Robittybob
5A is owned by an English lady, not a man.
http://www.ocean-country.com/property-for-sale/apartment-lagos-praia-da-luz/51 (Ground floor apartment at
far west end of Block 4)
http://www.ocean-country.com/property-for-sale/apartment-lagos-praia-da-luz/235 (2nd floor apartment in Block 5? with air con)
Some apartments seem to have air con, others don't.
Some photos here of pathways around Blocks 4 & 5
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6520.0
There is a gate in the side wall of 5F (ground floor far west) into the alley/pathway separating Blocks 4 & 5 but I can't locate it right now.
http://www.ocean-country.com/property-for-sale/apartment-lagos-praia-da-luz/51 (Ground floor apartment at
far west end of Block 4) is virtually a mirror image structurally of 5A and it is for sale so at a pinch I could ask for a viewing and examine how the doors work etc.
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The most important question for me is how difficult is it to open the patio doors. Ive stayed in aprtments where they have been quite stiff and a 3 to 4 yr old would not have been able to open them
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The most important question for me is how difficult is it to open the patio doors. Ive stayed in aprtments where they have been quite stiff and a 3 to 4 yr old would not have been able to open them
Eleven years on would hardly be a realistic comparison would it.
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The most important question for me is how difficult is it to open the patio doors. Ive stayed in aprtments where they have been quite stiff and a 3 to 4 yr old would not have been able to open them
I was thinking you could measure that in terms of force with a spring balance.
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The most important question for me is how difficult is it to open the patio doors. Ive stayed in aprtments where they have been quite stiff and a 3 to 4 yr old would not have been able to open them
Did the McCanns ever say the patio door was stiff? I don't recall them doing so.
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I have reinstated Robs original YouCaring thread since there was some discussion following the decision by YouCaring to terminated the account. Those posts have now been moved.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9095.msg443879#msg443879
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Did the McCanns ever say the patio door was stiff? I don't recall them doing so.
It was supposedly quieter than the front door. OK it was further away from the kids bedroom.
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Add posts of things you would liked checked if you had the opportunity to go to PdL.
1. Define the cul-de-sac that Russell O'Brien talks about.
2. The height of the garden walls?
3. Can the garden walls be climbed over, by adults or by kids?
4 Visibility at 9:00, 9:15 and 10:00 PM on the 3rd of May. (lux meter required)
5. distance of side gate to footpath of the top road.
6. How is the Tapas reception secured at night? Can the access card always open it?
7. How is the door at the secondary reception held open?
8. Measure the dimensions of the kids bedroom window.
9. I want to know if the units had air conditioning.
10. I want to see how noisy the front door is compared to the sliding door.
11. I want to see how effective the public patio of block 6 would be for viewing apartment 5A (Sadie's theory).
12. Has the back garden of the most westerly apartment got a gate thru onto the alleyway?
13 Madeleine in an excited moment running off she somehow got into the back garden of the most westerly apartment. - follow the likely route she took
14. Stand in the recess along the roadside wall and sense whether it is a suitable temporary hiding place.
15. Walk the distance between the Tapas and the 24 hour reception, and time the walk.
16. Find the short cut to the 24 hour reception and time the walk.
17. Know where the Kids club was.
18. Know where the night creche was situated
19. Know where the Toddlers creche was.
20. Understand the pattern of searches the Tapas 7 made immediately after Kate's alarm.
21. Do the walk from apartment 5A front door to passageway between Blocks 4 and 5, down alleyway and down to reception door at 9:45 PM at night. (imagine being Madeleine)
22. Attend a Sunday service at the local church in PdL (Church of Nossa Senhora da Luz).
23. Would the curtains at the patio door self close behind a 4 year old?
24. I want SiL to show me where the blood was found along the foot path 500 meters or so away.
25. Can the front door be slammed shut?
26. Purchase an Italian style rim lock of the type in the apartment
27. Can it be modified?
28. From where Kate was standing when Kate opened the door after it slammed shut, From that standing position how much of Madeleine's bed could she possibly see?
29. "No staff member mentions the task of locking up for the night." Find out who locks up st the end of the night.
30. "As,for the patio doors, I doubt they had an external handle and would need to be left open a fraction to enable someone to get their fingers between the door and door frame, in order to slide the door open." How was the patio door open from the outside?
31. How were the orders taken at the Tapas Restaurant? "A waitress takes the orders you don't write them anywhere" was that true?
32. How difficult is it to open the patio doors. I was thinking we could measure that in terms of force with a spring balance.
33. SiL could take us along the route Smithman took. Understand that one. Do that walk at 10:00 PM at night.
34 Discover where Smithman could have gone after passing the Smiths.
35 "take a set of pale pink pjs with you so you can see if it's possible to tell the colour from a distance." That is a type of reconstruction. OK it could be done across the top road. (validating Tanner's sighting.)
36 This suggestion from Angelo is just so great. "One thing you could do is ask around the locals to see what they really think about the case as we've heard so many conflicting stories. A chat with Malinka or even Murat would be a bonus." SiL knows Malinka's mother. Robert Murat just lives up the road.
37 I would like to have chat with Silvia Batista if that was possible? (speaks English and Portuguese) "964098114 This mobile number was noted as belonging to Silvia Batista."
38 Where is/was Chaplin's Bar?
39 Walk the alleyway at the back of the apartments, at night, to assess whether Jane and others would walk that way to their apartments after dark. https://youtu.be/tUHp85TyJ0Y
61 left to list.
33 If I've got the arithmetic right, you have the correct posse to recreate the Smith sighting - 3 males and 1 female.
38 Chaplins was and is a restaurant immediately south of the church. 'Scandal at Chaplins' regularly tops the list of searches on my blog. For the avoidance of doubt, 'Scandal at Chaplins' is cobblers, IMO.
You are missing many things that interest me. Euclides Monteiro (aka tractorman) may have been in Luz on the evening of 3 May 2007. His wife insists otherwise. There are two potential locations in Luz, and a 3rd in Portelas.
You don't appear to have Kelly's on your wish list.
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https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/2014/10/23/the-mccanns-scandal-at-chaplins/
Anything is possible.
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https://www.google.com/maps/place/Estrela+Da+Luz/@37.0876698,-8.7361747,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0xd1b3139615d331f:0x4bad50db9e651ca0!8m2!3d37.0876698!4d-8.733986 showing relationship of Dolphin Restaurant, Kelly's bar to the Estrela da Luz complex.
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This bit might be worth checking Peter Smith's statement "He only found out about the disappearance of the child the next morning through someone he knew, the son of the builder of Estrela da Luz, who was also at the airport.
Who would that be SiL? Was it Gerry Fagan?
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If Martin Smith is staying in PdL at the time we are there this is what he looked like in 2007 (http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/10/15/article-2460514-0236B0CE00000578-411_306x423.jpg) Source of the photo http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2462431/Madeleine-McCann-Police-say-Irish-family-seen-Maddie-taken.html
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33 If I've got the arithmetic right, you have the correct posse to recreate the Smith sighting - 3 males and 1 female.
38 Chaplins was and is a restaurant immediately south of the church. 'Scandal at Chaplins' regularly tops the list of searches on my blog. For the avoidance of doubt, 'Scandal at Chaplins' is cobblers, IMO.
You are missing many things that interest me. Euclides Monteiro (aka tractorman) may have been in Luz on the evening of 3 May 2007. His wife insists otherwise. There are two potential locations in Luz, and a 3rd in Portelas.
You don't appear to have Kelly's on your wish list.
Nice restaurant, Chaplins. When we were there in 2010 we had a tasty meal quite reasonably priced. It was packed out, I think but am not sure mainly with ex pats ... and there was a warm buzz about the place
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Nice restaurant, Chaplins. When we were there in 2010 we had a tasty meal quite reasonably priced. It was packed out, I think but am not sure mainly with ex pats ... and there was a warm buzz about the place
I went there in 2008. Lots of children's drawings on the walls and quite a few families enjoying the friendly surroundings. Had a long chat with the woman who manages it about the case. Let's just say she wasn't very complimentary about the McCanns.
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If I was to stay for a full month I feel that by that time I'd have a fair idea of the terrain around PDL. Explore some of the surrounding countryside, Rocha Negra, and the cliffs at that end of the beach.
I might even go and find Espiche, Odiaxere, just to get my bearings.
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I went there in 2008. Lots of children's drawings on the walls and quite a few families enjoying the friendly surroundings. Had a long chat with the woman who manages it about the case. Let's just say she wasn't very complimentary about the McCanns.
Well she probably lost trade after Madeleine vanished. Parents would be frightened to take their little one to PdL.
Disinformation put about and sour grapes IMO
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I went there in 2008. Lots of children's drawings on the walls and quite a few families enjoying the friendly surroundings. Had a long chat with the woman who manages it about the case. Let's just say she wasn't very complimentary about the McCanns.
Was she able to tell you if the Tapas 9 frequented her premises on 1st May 2007 - or any other night during the week-long holiday?
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Was she able to tell you if the Tapas 9 frequented her premises on 1st May 2007 - or any other night during the week-long holiday?
Did Faithlilly ask?
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Did Faithlilly ask?
That will be another story another day IMO.
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Did Faithlilly ask?
Given Chaplin's only relevance to the case at the time of Faithlilly's visit, I would hope that it would have been one of her primary points to address.
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Given Chaplin's only relevance to the case at the time of Faithlilly's visit, I would hope that it would have been one of her primary points to address.
That's what I thought.
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Given Chaplin's only relevance to the case at the time of Faithlilly's visit, I would hope that it would have been one of her primary points to address.
It was a chat not an interrogation but no none of the group visited Chaplins in the evening.
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It was a chat not an interrogation but no none of the group visited Chaplins in the evening.
Thank you for confirming that, Faithlilly. It's an important issue, bearing in mind the group's alleged visit to Chaplins was directly associated with Pamela Fenn hearing a child crying.
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Thank you for confirming that, Faithlilly. It's an important issue, bearing in mind the group's alleged visit to Chaplins was directly associated with Pamela Fenn hearing a child crying.
Unfortunately it still doesn’t rule out the distressed child being Madeleine.
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Unfortunately it still doesn’t rule out the distressed child being Madeleine.
I agree. It also doesn't rule out a comment that a child was heard crying for 10 mins on the Tues (Amelie) escalating into the version narrated by the hairdresser in the Kutting Korner.
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I agree. It also doesn't rule out a comment that a child was heard crying for 10 mins on the Tues (Amelie) escalating into the version narrated by the hairdresser in the Kutting Korner.
Not sure what you mean Misty. Mrs Fenn included the crying incident in her signed statement. Where does the Kutting Korner come into it?
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Not sure what you mean Misty. Mrs Fenn included the crying incident in her signed statement. Where does the Kutting Korner come into it?
https://youtu.be/G4WVVltKii4?t=1662
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https://youtu.be/G4WVVltKii4?t=1662
I had never seen that before but what that has to do with the Mrs Fenn’s signed statement I have no idea.
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I had never seen that before but what that has to do with the Mrs Fenn’s signed statement I have no idea.
Mrs Fenn only mentioned the crying in her statement to the PJ in August 2007 (same month as the documentary) & nothing else which she'd allegedly repeated to the hairdresser.
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Mrs Fenn only mentioned the crying in her statement to the PJ in August 2007 (same month as the documentary) & nothing else which she'd allegedly repeated to the hairdresser.
Who’s to say the hairdresser didn’t get the Chaplins story from gossip going around the village ? It was certainly on the internet before August 2007 ( SiL seems to think before 24th July 2007 https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/2014/10/23/the-mccanns-scandal-at-chaplins/). The hairdresser probably conflated Mrs Fenn’s story with gossip she’d heard elsewhere.
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Who’s to say the hairdresser didn’t get the Chaplins story from gossip going around the village ? It was certainly on the internet before August 2007 ( SiL seems to think before 24th July 2007 https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/2014/10/23/the-mccanns-scandal-at-chaplins/). The hairdresser probably conflated Mrs Fenn’s story with gossip she’d heard elsewhere.
Gossip
No facts.
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I went there in 2008. Lots of children's drawings on the walls and quite a few families enjoying the friendly surroundings. Had a long chat with the woman who manages it about the case. Let's just say she wasn't very complimentary about the McCanns.
Was that about the McCanns' childcare arrangements, or was there more to it?
*&(+(+
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Who’s to say the hairdresser didn’t get the Chaplins story from gossip going around the village ? It was certainly on the internet before August 2007 ( SiL seems to think before 24th July 2007 https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/2014/10/23/the-mccanns-scandal-at-chaplins/). The hairdresser probably conflated Mrs Fenn’s story with gossip she’d heard elsewhere.
Here's the quote from the relevant link.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2705.msg250595#msg250595
So there were 2 stories - one from Mrs Fenn about a crying child, who she didn't actually know was unsupervised at the time - and another about the group being in Chaplins, which was untrue but also promoted by "Vera of Essex" http://themaddiecasefiles.com/comments-by-vera-on-sky-t3563.html
I haven't read that any other local said the McCanns were in Chaplins on any night, let alone the Tuesday, so I wonder how these two entirely separate stories from unrelated people (one a short-term UK holidaymaker) somehow got merged into one? Coincidentally, both events were said to have occurred on the only night that not a single one of the Tapas 9 was absent from the dinner table.
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Here's the quote from the relevant link.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2705.msg250595#msg250595
So there were 2 stories - one from Mrs Fenn about a crying child, who she didn't actually know was unsupervised at the time - and another about the group being in Chaplins, which was untrue but also promoted by "Vera of Essex" http://themaddiecasefiles.com/comments-by-vera-on-sky-t3563.html
I haven't read that any other local said the McCanns were in Chaplins on any night, let alone the Tuesday, so I wonder how these two entirely separate stories from unrelated people (one a short-term UK holidaymaker) somehow got merged into one? Coincidentally, both events were said to have occurred on the only night that not a single one of the Tapas 9 was absent from the dinner table.
As the saying goes ... great oaks from little acorns grow and in my opinion, nothing exemplifies that more than Madeleine's case and the propaganda war waged against her parents since the day and hour of her disappearance.
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Clement Freud's villa was/is on the hill where the McCanns went running, when they were in 4G. It can be seen on Google StreetView.
Gail Cooper. As far as I can remember, I have never met a Gail in my life. So I wouldn't know Gail Cooper if I bumped into her today.
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Clement Freud's villa was/is on the hill where the McCanns went running, when they were in 4G. It can be seen on Google StreetView.
Gail Cooper. As far as I can remember, I have never met a Gail in my life. So I wouldn't know Gail Cooper if I bumped into her today.
Do you know what she looks like? (http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/sitebuilderpictures/GailCooperSE02052010.jpg)
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This could be a more recent pic. (http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/sitebuilderpictures/zzgailcooper.jpg)
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Clement Freud's villa was/is on the hill where the McCanns went running, when they were in 4G. It can be seen on Google StreetView.
....
Would you be able to give me the GPS coordinates please?
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Nice restaurant, Chaplins. When we were there in 2010 we had a tasty meal quite reasonably priced. It was packed out, I think but am not sure mainly with ex pats ... and there was a warm buzz about the place
Is this how you remember it? https://www.tripadvisor.co.nz/Restaurant_Review-g776012-d1797463-Reviews-Chaplins-Luz_Faro_District_Algarve.html#photos;geo=776012&detail=1797463&aggregationId=101
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Would you be able to give me the GPS coordinates please?
I walked, and I don't have GPS. So, no.
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I walked, and I don't have GPS. So, no.
Did you see it on Google Earth street view? Doesn't that give you the GPS coordinates?
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Did you see it on Google Earth street view? Doesn't that give you the GPS coordinates?
I WALKED.
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I WALKED.
OK
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Is this how you remember it? https://www.tripadvisor.co.nz/Restaurant_Review-g776012-d1797463-Reviews-Chaplins-Luz_Faro_District_Algarve.html#photos;geo=776012&detail=1797463&aggregationId=101
The meal looks well presented and quite acceptable, anyway.
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Here's the quote from the relevant link.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2705.msg250595#msg250595
So there were 2 stories - one from Mrs Fenn about a crying child, who she didn't actually know was unsupervised at the time - and another about the group being in Chaplins, which was untrue but also promoted by "Vera of Essex" http://themaddiecasefiles.com/comments-by-vera-on-sky-t3563.html
I haven't read that any other local said the McCanns were in Chaplins on any night, let alone the Tuesday, so I wonder how these two entirely separate stories from unrelated people (one a short-term UK holidaymaker) somehow got merged into one? Coincidentally, both events were said to have occurred on the only night that not a single one of the Tapas 9 was absent from the dinner table.
If I remember correctly, which I think I do, Vera of Essex purported to have been in Chaplins on the night in question and actually saw The McCanns. And said what a shock we were all going to get when we found out what had gone on.
I wonder what happened to her.
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Here's the quote from the relevant link.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2705.msg250595#msg250595
So there were 2 stories - one from Mrs Fenn about a crying child, who she didn't actually know was unsupervised at the time - and another about the group being in Chaplins, which was untrue but also promoted by "Vera of Essex" http://themaddiecasefiles.com/comments-by-vera-on-sky-t3563.html
I haven't read that any other local said the McCanns were in Chaplins on any night, let alone the Tuesday, so I wonder how these two entirely separate stories from unrelated people (one a short-term UK holidaymaker) somehow got merged into one? Coincidentally, both events were said to have occurred on the only night that not a single one of the Tapas 9 was absent from the dinner table.
The story probably grew in the same way as we are lead to believe the one about the jemmied shutters did, well according to supporters.
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Was that about the McCanns' childcare arrangements, or was there more to it?
*&(+(+
Funnily it wasn’t. It was more to do with the way the McCanns had conducted themselves.
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If I remember correctly, which I think I do, Vera of Essex purported to have been in Chaplins on the night in question and actually saw The McCanns. And said what a shock we were all going to get when we found out what had gone on.
I wonder what happened to her.
How many sightings of Madeleine have there been? Was it 1800? on some days she was seen in 3 different continents. How could anyone say for sure they saw the McCanns? I suppose if they knew them personally I might believe it.
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How many sightings of Madeleine have there been? Was it 1800? on some days she was since in 3 different continents. How could anyone say for sure they saw the McCanns? I suppose if they knew them personally I might believe it.
Excellent, post Rob
We have one, sighting of Gerry that sceptics, want to accept as Gospel and 1800 sightings of Madddie, that they want to ignore... Can anyone spot the poor logic
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Excellent, post Rob
We have one, sighting of Gerry that sceptics, want to accept as Gospel and 1800 sightings of Madddie, that they want to ignore... Can anyone spot the poor logic
Well if Gerry and the lads went to Chaplins and let the girls do the child minding, then there would not be a problem with that. Did they see all 9 of them there?
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Well if Gerry and the lads went to Chaplins and let the girls do the child minding, then there would not be a problem with that. Did they see all 9 of them there?
It simply prices how unreliable sightings.... Including the Smith sighting... can be
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Well if Gerry and the lads went to Chaplins and let the girls do the child minding, then there would not be a problem with that. Did they see all 9 of them there?
Nobody saw any of them there. They weren't there. But Vera was an example of the lies being told.
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Nobody saw any of them there. They weren't there. But Vera was an example of the lies being told.
I doubt one attention seeker on an obscure forum amounts to much against the propaganda war that was being waged by the McCanns and their PR lackeys at the time. Half a million pounds paid to Lord Bell to keep them in the papers, tens of thousands of pounds for various spokespersons. ‘Vera’ didn’t stand a chance.
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I doubt one attention seeker on an obscure forum amounts to much against the propaganda war that was being waged by the McCanns and their PR lackeys at the time. Half a million pounds paid to Lord Bell to keep them in the papers, tens of thousands of pounds for various spokespersons. ‘Vera’ didn’t stand a chance.
You might be surprised by the number of people who were only too happy to believe her. Or maybe you won't.
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You might be surprised by the number of people who were only too happy to believe her. Or maybe you won't.
But..but..but I thought there were only a handful who didn't believe the McCanns.
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If I remember correctly, which I think I do, Vera of Essex purported to have been in Chaplins on the night in question and actually saw The McCanns. And said what a shock we were all going to get when we found out what had gone on.
I wonder what happened to her.
I found a site where they listed some of her posts. http://themaddiecasefiles.com/comments-by-vera-on-sky-t3563.html I would have to say IMO she could well be telling the truth. When you compare what she says and what Najoua says, and the interview of Silvia Batista, it is possible IMO that Gerry goes to Chaplins on that night. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/NAJOUA_CHEKAYA.htm
Najoua says one person is away from the table, she is not certain who. She leaves early I wonder where she went afterwards.
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But..but..but I thought there were only a handful who didn't believe the McCanns.
I have never said that. But Happy to Believe and actually Believing are often two different things. As you probably already know.
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I found a site where they listed some of her posts. http://themaddiecasefiles.com/comments-by-vera-on-sky-t3563.html I would have to say IMO she could well be telling the truth. When you compare what she says and what Najoua says, and the interview of Silvia Batista, it is possible IMO that Gerry goes to Chaplins on that night. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/NAJOUA_CHEKAYA.htm
Najoua says one person is away from the table, she is not certain who. She leaves early I wonder where she went afterwards.
So you think Gerry went to Chaplins on his own?
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SiL have you meet Karen Sissons the person who reported one of the first potential sightings of Madeleine? She now lives in PdL and could well be the current owner of apartment 5A.
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So you think Gerry went to Chaplins on his own?
Najoua does not meet Kate, but Gerry invites her to the table after the quiz, Najoua leaves early, and Gerry might have been attracted. The next night there seems to be a split between Gerry and Kate over some aspect in fact they end up in separate beds (that is documented).
Vera is quoted as saying "The McCann’s were at Chaplin’s. I do know that for sure because me, my daughter and granddaughter were there at the time. I didn’t see the McCann’s being asked to return to see to their child because we left fairly early as my granddaughter was tired."
If it was Tuesday Najoua or Vera are confused depending on how early "we left fairly early" is. Gerry can't be in two places at once.
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SiL have you meet Karen Sissons the person who reported one of the first potential sightings of Madeleine? She now lives in PdL and could well be the current owner of apartment 5A.
What makes you think Karen Sissons lives in PdL?
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Is this how you remember it? https://www.tripadvisor.co.nz/Restaurant_Review-g776012-d1797463-Reviews-Chaplins-Luz_Faro_District_Algarve.html#photos;geo=776012&detail=1797463&aggregationId=101
It has been about 8 years since we went and once only, but, Yes, apart from the white boarding at the back, which I dont remember, it seems the same. It was absolutely crowded when we went.
I think we had the little two seater table at the back. Am not sure if the chairs were the same
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What makes you think Karen Sissons lives in PdL?
Personal communication. She said it herself to me and I believed her for her profile photo were very much like the photo I posted of her some years apart. Proof will be if SiL has met her there.
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How many sightings of Madeleine have there been? Was it 1800? on some days she was seen in 3 different continents. How could anyone say for sure they saw the McCanns? I suppose if they knew them personally I might believe it.
And according to Matt James (famed psychic who SY have been in touch with) there were 28 sightings in (Greater) Malta.
Now, I happen to independently found that VERY INTERESTING. Certain of Matt James Runes have struck a chord with me and confirm my investigated thoughts. My thoughts came first and then I was shocked to see him confirming them .... and i was suddenly understanding some of his runes.
Sorry but I cant say any more, so believe or not. That is up to you.
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Well if Gerry and the lads went to Chaplins and let the girls do the child minding, then there would not be a problem with that. Did they see all 9 of them there?
Hey, are you jumping the gun?
Where does it state that any of them went to Chaplins?
Have I missed something?
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Najoua does not meet Kate, but Gerry invites her to the table after the quiz, Najoua leaves early, and Gerry might have been attracted. The next night there seems to be a split between Gerry and Kate over some aspect in fact they end up in separate beds (that is documented).
Vera is quoted as saying "The McCann’s were at Chaplin’s. I do know that for sure because me, my daughter and granddaughter were there at the time. I didn’t see the McCann’s being asked to return to see to their child because we left fairly early as my granddaughter was tired."
If it was Tuesday Najoua or Vera are confused depending on how early "we left fairly early" is. Gerry can't be in two places at once.
Grandchild tired, so were they having afternoon tea, or kids high tea?
Is it true anyway? With it being from The Maddie Case Files and names like Jillycl, Astro and Kazluz ... forgive me please if I give Veras news a %56&
It sounds unlikely to me, but, we just don't know, do we?
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Najoua does not meet Kate, but Gerry invites her to the table after the quiz, Najoua leaves early, and Gerry might have been attracted. The next night there seems to be a split between Gerry and Kate over some aspect in fact they end up in separate beds (that is documented).
Vera is quoted as saying "The McCann’s were at Chaplin’s. I do know that for sure because me, my daughter and granddaughter were there at the time. I didn’t see the McCann’s being asked to return to see to their child because we left fairly early as my granddaughter was tired."
If it was Tuesday Najoua or Vera are confused depending on how early "we left fairly early" is. Gerry can't be in two places at once.
Vera is a fantasist or a lier. And suggesting that Gerry met Najoua at Chaplins is bordering on Libellous Innuendo.
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Vera is a fantasist or a lier. And suggesting that Gerry met Najoua at Chaplins is bordering on Libellous Innuendo.
I have not said Najoua headed to Chaplins after the Tapas Bar. But you seem quite comfortable calling Vera a fantasist or a lier. If you read all her posts on that site which one really had be the most obvious lie in it in your opinion?
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I have not said Najoua headed to Chaplins after the Tapas Bar. But you seem quite comfortable calling Vera a fantasist or a lier. If you read all her posts on that site which one really had be the most obvious lie in it in your opinion?
I am not prepared to define. And nor do I need to.
Vera was a liar and a fantasist. You did suggest that Gerry went to Chaplins to meet Najoua. Please don't do this. I am not stupid.
Merci Beaucoup.
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I am not prepared to define. And nor do I need to.
Vera was a liar and a fantasist. You did suggest that Gerry went to Chaplins to meet Najoua. Please don't do this. I am not stupid.
Merci Beaucoup.
You might have read it like that.
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I am not prepared to define. And nor do I need to.
Vera was a liar and a fantasist. You did suggest that Gerry went to Chaplins to meet Najoua. Please don't do this. I am not stupid.
Merci Beaucoup.
If what Vera says had any truth in it, they would be worth going over again for she says she was there at the time but from what I can see there was no statement from her in the file.
What I find odd about the PJ file we have a swag of statements from the Millennium staff, a place hundreds of meters away from the action and a place the McCanns only went to once during their holiday and yet important eyewitness holiday makers are not interviewed.
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Ifwhat Vera asys had any truth in it, they would be worth going over again for she says she was there at the time but from what I can see there was no statement from her in the file.
What I find odd about the PJ file we have a swag of statements from the Millennium staff, a place hundreds of meters away from the action and a place the McCanns only went to once during their holiday and yet important eyewitness holiday makers are not interviewed.
There is absolutely no truth in what "Vera from Essex" said. A little googling will provide a very unsavoury insight into that particular poster.
Faithlilly has already confirmed that none of the Tapas 9 went to Chaplins, after chatting with the owner. I know who I believe.
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Grandchild tired, so were they having afternoon tea, or kids high tea?
Is it true anyway? With it being from The Maddie Case Files and names like Jillycl, Astro and Kazluz ... forgive me please if I give Veras news a %56&
It sounds unlikely to me, but, we just don't know, do we?
So you haven't heard of her before Sadie. She has her opinions and her understandings which are debatable but she says she was there at the time and gave a statement to the Police (maybe that was the UK police there) for there is no PJ statement with her name on it.
One comment she makes "All the people on holiday gave statements to the police and anything that was said to the PJ has to stay known only to them until they wish it to be made known to the public or not, so I can’t tell anyone about that either."
Well they aren't in the file Vera!
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There is absolutely no truth in what "Vera from Essex" said. A little googling will provide a very unsavoury insight into that particular poster.
Faithlilly has already confirmed that none of the Tapas 9 went to Chaplins, after chatting with the owner. I know who I believe.
OK she had her views but other than the dispute over whether the McCanns went to Chaplins (she said Wednesday in a post I have just read) and it sounded like a meal, so who knows, maybe she has a bad recall on that.
"They all did eat at Chaplin's on May 2nd and they were contacted at Chaplin's by an employee of MW's with regard to the children - specifically the McCann children. This was followed up immediately upon their return to the MW complex." https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/80snostalgia6693/missing-madeline-thread-t446-s320.html
But what exactly do you have a problem with?
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OK she had her views but other than the dispute over whether the McCanns went to Chaplins (she said Wednesday in a post I have just read) and it sounded like a meal, so who knows, maybe she has a bad recall on that.
"They all did eat at Chaplin's on May 2nd and they were contacted at Chaplin's by an employee of MW's with regard to the children - specifically the McCann children. This was followed up immediately upon their return to the MW complex." https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/80snostalgia6693/missing-madeline-thread-t446-s320.html
But what exactly do you have a problem with?
The problem is Rob you claim to be a serious researcher but are taking pure gossip seriously
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The problem is Rob you claim to be a serious researcher but are taking pure gossip seriously
If someone says they were there and they heard something or saw something that is not actually gossip IMO. It is first hand knowledge. It still could be false memory, or mis-identification or other, but I have yet to see any sign of lying on her behalf.
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There is absolutely no truth in what "Vera from Essex" said. A little googling will provide a very unsavoury insight into that particular poster.
Faithlilly has already confirmed that none of the Tapas 9 went to Chaplins, after chatting with the owner. I know who I believe.
That current manager of Chaplins was she there in 2007? Was that first hand knowledge or not?
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That current manager of Chaplins was she there in 2007? Was that first hand knowledge or not?
Faithlilly had the conversation in Luz in 2008. I don't know if the restaurant still has the same manager now.
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Faithlilly had the conversation in Luz in 2008. I don't know if the restaurant still has the same manager now.
OK http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9111.msg445443#msg445443
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SiL have you meet Karen Sissons the person who reported one of the first potential sightings of Madeleine? She now lives in PdL and could well be the current owner of apartment 5A.
I don't do Midsomer Murders. In the main, I listen and note, because once one shows a serious interest in the case the locals clam up.
I wouldn't recognise Karen Sissons if I bumped into her tomorrow. N.B. A photo of her will not jog my memory.
AFAIK, 5A was sold to an English lady and Karen Sissons still does not jog my memory.
And I don't do doorstepping.
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http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/record-profits-expected-for-ft-publisher-pearson/
My Week: Yvonne Radley
"Saturday
As my colleague Klara Lethbridge and I made our way through to departures at East Midlands airport after our 4.10am check-in there were just a couple of the national papers out as it was so early. The Mirror and Express both featured Madeleine on their front pages and talked about the police investigation going from crisis to crisis. We arrived in Faro at 9.10 and jumped in a taxi for the hour-long journey to the Mark Warner complex in Praia Da Luz where the McCanns had stayed. We hadn’t told them we were journalists, and I was worried we might get thrown out as soon as we arrived. We made sure all the equipment was hidden under the beach towels in our hand luggage. ....."
Could be like that for us.
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How about mid-morning coffee at Polly's?
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So Rob...on topic...have you got your list ready and your bags packed
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So Rob...on topic...have you got your list ready and your bags packed
Looks like it will be next year at thew rate things are happening around here.
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Looks like it will be next year at thew rate things are happening around here.
That's a pity, I'm meeting the PJ soon in Faro to discuss my own concerns. I had hoped to meet up with you but maybe another time eh?
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That's a pity, I'm meeting the PJ soon in Faro to discuss my own concerns. I had hoped to meet up with you but maybe another time eh?
It's hard to tell if this is a joke or not....
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It's hard to tell if this is a joke or not....
I sincerely hope it is...............and a very poor one !
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That's a pity, I'm meeting the PJ soon in Faro to discuss my own concerns. I had hoped to meet up with you but maybe another time eh?
Has it occured to you that seeing as amaral lost his case, against Correia and must be very angry with him..... Then if there was any evidence of any criminal activity by Correia against amaral then amaral would have raised it himself... That's why I don't think your claims have any basis
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I sincerely hope it is...............and a very poor one !
In what way?
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In what way?
The idea that a British national with no direct links to the case at all has been granted an audience with the PJ in Portugal to discuss his concerns about it is bizarre to say the least. It must be a joke, surely?
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The idea that a British national with no direct links to the case at all has been granted an audience with the PJ in Portugal to discuss his concerns about it is bizarre to say the least. It must be a joke, surely?
Maybe Angelo is winding you up, successfully it would seem.
On the other hand, perhaps he has insider contacts that the rest of us know nothing about.
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Maybe Angelo is winding you up, successfully it would seem.
On the other hand, perhaps he has insider contacts that the rest of us know nothing about.
I'm not wound up, I suggested it must be a joke in the first place. As for your second sentence - LOL.
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Maybe Angelo is winding you up, successfully it would seem.
On the other hand, perhaps he has insider contacts that the rest of us know nothing about.
(&^&
Neither.
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I wonder if Angelo has told the PJ he has a meeting with them
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I wonder if Angelo has told the PJ he has a meeting with them
I think you can book, via a source close to the PJ, at the open-all-hours window in Faro police station.
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(&^&
Neither.
You have information to support that claim?
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That's a pity, I'm meeting the PJ soon in Faro to discuss my own concerns. I had hoped to meet up with you but maybe another time eh?
I didn't know that. I'm fairly flexible TBH.
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Has it occured to you that seeing as amaral lost his case, against Correia and must be very angry with him..... Then if there was any evidence of any criminal activity by Correia against amaral then amaral would have raised it himself... That's why I don't think your claims have any basis
Correia is but one cog in this particular wheel, there's bigger fish to fry. I'm looking forward to meeting Shining and a few others who have taken an interest in the case.
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The idea that a British national with no direct links to the case at all has been granted an audience with the PJ in Portugal to discuss his concerns about it is bizarre to say the least. It must be a joke, surely?
Let's hope the PJ don't agree with you then.
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Let's hope the PJ don't agree with you then.
So you are hoping the PJ will see you...
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So you are hoping the PJ will see you...
I have no doubt whatsoever. I fail to understand your reluctance to see justice done?
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I have no doubt whatsoever. I fail to understand your reluctance to see justice done?
The PJ were not to pleased with the UK police trying to tell them what to do so I have a good idea how they will react to you...I thought you were going to write to them first....AFAIAC none of your claims have any basis in reality so no effect on justice.....As you are interested in justice I'm sure you support the mccanns action at the ECHR...whatever the verdict justice will be done
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The PJ were not to pleased with the UK police trying to tell them what to do so I have a good idea how they will react to you...I thought you were going to write to them first....AFAIAC none of your claims have any basis in reality so no effect on justice.....As you are interested in justice I'm sure you support the mccanns action at the ECHR...whatever the verdict justice will be done
I understand only too well the realities and the fantasies in the Maddie case but I am not going to give anything away ahead of my visit since it appears that just about everything novel we discuss here ends up as a news story.
I also hope to do a bit of digging and searching too while I'm there. You never know, I might uncover that dungeon near Luz where Maddie is supposed to be according to some commentators.
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I understand only too well the realities and the fantasies in the Maddie case but I am not going to give anything away ahead of my visit since it appears that just about everything novel we discuss here ends up as a news story.
I also hope to do a bit of digging and searching too while I'm there. You never know, I might uncover that dungeon near Luz where Maddie is supposed to be according to some commentators.
We all know your ideas on the actions of M3 so there is nothing to give away.... If you are going to dig about don't forget your bucket and spade
Could you also give an example of something discussed here that has ended up as, a news story.... I really think that's, a fantasy
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Let's hope the PJ don't agree with you then.
So you are serious then. You (someone with no first hand knowledge or involvement in this case) have contacted the PJ and said " I have some concerns about this case which I wish to discuss with you", and they have replied "great, come to Portugal,and let's talk about it" - is that more or less what happened?
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So you are serious then. You (someone with no first hand knowledge or involvement in this case) have contacted the PJ and said " I have some concerns about this case which I wish to discuss with you", and they have replied "great, come to Portugal,and let's talk about it" - is that more or less what happened?
Is it any more ridiculous than Sadie sending her theories to SY ad nauseum?
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Is it any more ridiculous than Sadie sending her theories to SY ad nauseum?
the equivalent would be The Met granting Sadie a meeting to discuss her concerns.
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Is it any more ridiculous than Sadie sending her theories to SY ad nauseum?
Yes.... To expect the PJ to discuss s case.... Covered by judicial secrecy..... With a member of the public.... What do you think
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Yes.... To expect the PJ to discuss s case.... Covered by judicial secrecy..... With a member of the public.... What do you think
Didn't stop Bilton,or were the former arguidos free of judicial secrecy?
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Didn't stop Bilton,or were the former arguidos free of judicial secrecy?
Read it, again.... Angelo expects the PJ to discuss the case, with him....ridiculous or what iyo
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Read it, again.... Angelo expects the PJ to discuss the case, with him....ridiculous or what iyo
Bilton expected the former arguidos to discuss the case.
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Bilton expected the former arguidos to discuss the case.
So Angelo expects the PJ to discuss the case... Fair enough
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Bilton expected the former arguidos to discuss the case.
If Angelo announced he was meeting with the former arguidos that would be a fair bit more plausible than the idea that the PJ have agreed to meet him to talk about his concerns with the case, or do you disagree?
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the equivalent would be The Met granting Sadie a meeting to discuss her concerns.
Well, sorry Guys, but they did.
They didn't summon me in from home, but after a good deal of info (and linking thoughts) had been taken to them a couple or so times before, they called me in and listened sensibly to what I had to say. I saw two different sargeants on different occasions.
The one sargeant said that I was very intelligent, which was pleasing. But I am not sure about the "very" bit !! 8**8:/: I think that it was just that I took a totally different approach to everyone else and worked my pants off for well over two years, going on four years, and culminating with a visit to PT, which physically backed everything up.
They only had to go and see what I saw and they had a powerful back up to my facts and thoughts. Everything fitted together like a large jigsaw, with a very few bits missing.
However, I am not daft despite peeps on here trying to make out that I am ... and I know that it is perfectly possible to get pieces in a jigsaw puzzle upside down ... so hopefully everything was correct.
Fingers crossed that i have helped the Met ... and every body bit crossed that it brings Madeleine home and certain man / men locked away somewhere safe for a long time.
But the group that I fear is behind all this is historically able to take hard knocks and recover ... Unhappily they WILL rise again from the ashes, and start all over again. Just like the Phoenix.
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Read it, again.... Angelo expects the PJ to discuss the case, with him....ridiculous or what iyo
Unless the PJ are VERY lax, they will not discuss it with him IMO.
If they think that he has something worthwhile to say, then they might listen to him and ask him a few questions ... but they shouldn't discuss the case with him ... even if he is ex-police in the UK
AIMO
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Unless the PJ are VERY lax, they will not discuss it with him IMO.
If they think that he has something worthwhile to say, then they might listen to him and ask him a few questions ... but they shouldn't discuss the case with him ... even if he is ex-police in the UK
AIMO
So the Met are very lax?
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If Angelo announced he was meeting with the former arguidos that would be a fair bit more plausible than the idea that the PJ have agreed to meet him to talk about his concerns with the case, or do you disagree?
I've no particular interest either way,one things for certain he'll not trip over any Scotland Yard officers whilst out there imo.
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So the Met are very lax?
Most certainly NOT. They listened but did NOT discuss.
Please do NOT twist my very clear post.
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If Angelo announced he was meeting with the former arguidos that would be a fair bit more plausible than the idea that the PJ have agreed to meet him to talk about his concerns with the case, or do you disagree?
What is it you are saying? the PJ investigating a case of a missing child would refuse to listen to someone with some concerns, and or information? What is your reason for this?
Ahh yes they are all lazy sardine munching.long lunching incompetents.. sshhheeeeesh I forgot- my bad.
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This is a nice off the piste thread...
Lat time I went to London met the queen,, well met a few actually 8**8:/:, but the queen queen wasn't wearing her crown. how odd I Thought ungrateful or what, but she said ... Well I can't say what she said because of Palace secrecy and security.
Oh how we laughed... ^*&&
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Read it, again.... Angelo expects the PJ to discuss the case, with him....ridiculous or what iyo
Unless the PJ are VERY lax, they will not discuss it with him IMO.
If they think that he has something worthwhile to say, then they might listen to him and ask him a few questions ... but they shouldn't discuss the case with him ... even if he is ex-police in the UK
AIMO
You both have obviously created your own interpretation of what I originally posted. Let's be clear, I am not expecting the PJ to share any judicial secrets with me but I most definitely intend to share my concerns with them. I might even share the response I receive with you.
Meeting former arguidos could be seen as interference in the live investigation and we don't want that do we?
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You both have obviously created your own interpretation of what I originally posted. Let's be clear, I am not expecting the PJ to share any judicial secrets with me but I most definitely intend to share my concerns with them. I might even share the response I receive with you.
Meeting former arguidos could be seen as interference in the live investigation and we don't want that do we?
I can't wait to hear what comes of this Angelo. Well done you!
Oh while you are there... keep an eye open for the Knight Templar gang.... they will most likely be wearing their long white robes with a huge red cross down the fronts, theres a good chap. *&(+(+
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You both have obviously created your own interpretation of what I originally posted. Let's be clear, I am not expecting the PJ to share any judicial secrets with me but I most definitely intend to share my concerns with them. I might even share the response I receive with you.
Meeting former arguidos could be seen as interference in the live investigation and we don't want that do we?
You said you will be soon meeting the PJ which would indicate you have a meeting arranged... Is that correct or not
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You said you will be soon meeting the PJ which would indicate you have a meeting arranged... Is that correct or not
I don't think it indicates anything and does that matter to you anyway? 'soon' is not a definitive time. so wait and see.
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I don't think it indicates anything and does that matter to you anyway? 'soon' is not a definitive time. so wait and see.
The words... Will be...indicates a meeting has been arranged.
Might be would indicate a meeting was to be arranged
Angelis concerns I believe relate to Metodo 3 and I don't see what jurisdiction the PJ wil have Re a, Spanish Company
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Most certainly NOT. They listened but did NOT discuss.
Please do NOT twist my very clear post.
You said they did...
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You said you will be soon meeting the PJ which would indicate you have a meeting arranged... Is that correct or not
As I have not yet made my travel arrangements your observation is a bit premature. As for the Spanish company you mentioned, the Portuguese can pursue the I dividuals concerned thru normal channels should they deem a crime was committed.
Apologies to Robbie for hijacking his thread.
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The words... Will be...indicates a meeting has been arranged.
Might be would indicate a meeting was to be arranged
Angelis concerns I believe relate to Metodo 3 and I don't see what jurisdiction the PJ wil have Re a, Spanish Company
To be pedant about it.. will be meeting soon could mean awaiting a reply for a date for the meeting.
Angelo has intimated he may discuss this on his return. You are doing your usual guessing and passing it as fact- you do not know what Angelo will discuss.
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To be pedant about it.. will be meeting soon could mean awaiting a reply for a date for the meeting.
Angelo has intimated he may discuss this on his return. You are doing your usual guessing and passing it as fact- you do not know what Angelo will discuss.
Davel is just being his usual pedantic self. All will be revealed in the fullness of time.
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Davel is just being his usual pedantic self. All will be revealed in the fullness of time.
So you don't have a meeting planned, at the moment... Thanks
I don't mind being called, pedantic but I would describe my actions as thorough and precise... Admirable qualities
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As I have not yet made my travel arrangements your observation is a bit premature. As for the Spanish company you mentioned, the Portuguese can pursue the I dividuals concerned thru normal channels should they deem a crime was committed.
Apologies to Robbie for hijacking his thread.
I think you will find it's, a bit more complicated.. As SY are finding out
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I think you will find it's, a bit more complicated.. As SY are finding out
We were informed a while back by a senior SY officer that SY's hands are tied. In any event the matters I want to discuss with the PJ relate solely to Portugal and Spain so SY have no direct involvement as yet. It will be up to the Portuguese authorities whether they want to pursue my complaint with SY. Whatever happens I'm sure everyone will be interested in what the PJ have to say.
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We were informed a while back by a senior SY officer that SY's hands are tied. In any event the matters I want to discuss with the PJ relate solely to Portugal and Spain so SY have no direct involvement as yet. It will be up to the Portuguese authorities whether they want to pursue my complaint with SY. Whatever happens I'm sure everyone will be interested in what the PJ have to say.
I have a very good idea what the PJ will say already
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I have a very good idea what the PJ will say already
Well why not share that with us, spare Angelo the bother of telling us.
So.. right , you do not know what Angelo is going to discuss, you can only guess and yet you claim to know that by guessing you know the reply?
heard it all now. No really I have ...* falling about laughing here*.
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We were informed a while back by a senior SY officer that SY's hands are tied. In any event the matters I want to discuss with the PJ relate solely to Portugal and Spain so SY have no direct involvement as yet. It will be up to the Portuguese authorities whether they want to pursue my complaint with SY. Whatever happens I'm sure everyone will be interested in what the PJ have to say.
What is your complaint and how does it directly affect you?
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What is your complaint and how does it directly affect you?
Is that really any of your business? I don't think so.
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Is that really any of your business? I don't think so.
Are you Angelo's spokesperson now?
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As I have not yet made my travel arrangements your observation is a bit premature. As for the Spanish company you mentioned, the Portuguese can pursue the I dividuals concerned thru normal channels should they deem a crime was committed.
Apologies to Robbie for hijacking his thread.
NO that's fine.
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You said they did...
Cite please.
They listened to me and asked a few questions, they were interested .... but did not discuss the case.
Please show me where I have said that they discussed the case with me.
Cite please.
PS I would have been disappointed with them had they let out case secrets to me.
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Cite please.
They listened to me and asked a few questions, they were interested .... but did not discuss the case.
Please show me where I have said that they discussed the case with me.
Cite please.
PS I would have been disappointed with them had they let out case secrets to me.
I would so loved to be a fly on the wall for that meeting.
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Cite please.
They listened to me and asked a few questions, they were interested .... but did not discuss the case.
Please show me where I have said that they discussed the case with me.
Cite please.
PS I would have been disappointed with them had they let out case secrets to me.
the equivalent would be The Met granting Sadie a meeting to discuss her concerns.
Well, sorry Guys, but they did.
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Well, sorry Guys, but they did.
So, you have quoted someone who wasn't there and mistakenly thought something to be the case, when it wasn't ... as i have made clear.
They listened when I discussed the case, to what I had found out, ... but THEY didn't discuss the case with me. I would have been very disappointed in them had they done so.
Better to get things verbatum slarti
So you dont have a cite?
Please will you remove the remark TY in anticipation
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So, you as a Moderator, have quoted someone who wasn't there and mistakenly thought something to be the case, when it wasn't ... as i have made clear.
They listened when I discussed the case, to what I had found out, ... but THEY didn't discuss the case with me. I would have been very disappointed in them had they done so.
Better to get things verbatum slarti .... but then you should know that as a mod especially
So you dont have a cite?
Please will you remove the remark TY in anticipation
Discussion is a two way communication of ideas. If you had said you passed on information fine, but in response to VS you confirmed discussion. If that isn’t what you meant, say so.
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You said they did...
No, I DID NOT.
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Post #167. Stop crying wolf.
Sadie said that they "discussed her concerns".
I don't take that to mean that they shared their own confidential info with her.
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Sadie said that they "discussed her concerns".
I don't take that to mean that they shared their own confidential info with her.
Sadie has never mentioned her concerns.
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Sadie has never mentioned her concerns.
It depends on the connection between VS and Sadie:
"VS: "the equivalent would be The Met granting Sadie a meeting to discuss her concerns."
Sadie: "Well, sorry Guys, but they did."
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9111.msg456395#msg456395
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It depends on the connection between VS and Sadie:
"VS: "the equivalent would be The Met granting Sadie a meeting to discuss her concerns."
Sadie: "Well, sorry Guys, but they did."
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9111.msg456395#msg456395
Dadie said they discussed her concerns.... Not any of their details on the case
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Dadie said they discussed her concerns.... Not any of their details on the case
Sadie doesn't used the words "they discussed her concerns". They were VS's words and Sadie appears to agree.
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Thank you all for your support.
They received my reports (loads of facts and co-incidences too many, with logical progression from them .. call them theories if you wish, but everything fitted together) then I quickly ran over the content of them and they asked a few questions.
I asked one question, just a small detail which, even so, I am not about to reveal.
Their case is their case and I am pleased if i managed to help. I dont expect to be informed. I prefer not to be, in fact.
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Thank you all for your support.
They received my reports (loads of facts and co-incidences too many, with logical progression from them .. call them theories if you wish, but everything fitted together) then I quickly ran over the content of them and they asked a few questions.
I asked one question, just a small detail which, even so, I am not about to reveal.
Their case is their case and I am pleased if i managed to help. I dont expect to be informed. I prefer not to be, in fact.
You asked one question and they answered it and you are not going to reveal it?
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Thank you all for your support.
They received my reports (loads of facts and co-incidences too many, with logical progression from them .. call them theories if you wish, but everything fitted together) then I quickly ran over the content of them and they asked a few questions.
I asked one question, just a small detail which, even so, I am not about to reveal.
Their case is their case and I am pleased if i managed to help. I dont expect to be informed. I prefer not to be, in fact.
Sadie, I hope you didn't mention little Bushra and Morocco in that conversation (&^&
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You asked one question and they answered it and you are not going to reveal it?
Correct
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Correct
Must have been another dead end Sadie otherwise they would have had something to show for their efforts instead of the stalled investigation it has become.
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Must have been another dead end Sadie otherwise they would have had something to show for their efforts instead of the stalled investigation it has become.
If it was, stalled it would have been closed and no further funding given... There must be something still left to investigate
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http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9348.msg457682#msg457682
I must estimate the effect of the curved end of the wall affecting the apparent length of the wall.
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http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9348.msg457682#msg457682
I must estimate the effect of the curved end of the wall affecting the apparent length of the wall.
I think it would have meant that the man was in her line of vision for much longer than would have been the case had the wall finished in a right angle. Probably gave her more time to take in what she was seeing; with the shock of discovering a short time later that she may have witnessed Madeleine being carried away cementing her recall firmly in her memory for ever.
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I think it would have meant that the man was in her line of vision for much longer than would have been the case had the wall finished in a right angle. Probably gave her more time to take in what she was seeing; with the shock of discovering a short time later that she may have witnessed Madeleine being carried away cementing her recall firmly in her memory for ever.
Good point. Worth checking out.
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Thanks Sadie "is there ANY door between the passageway and the pool area? 53rd point on the list. (full list #1)