Why did Amaral and PJ suspect the McCanns and Murat as being somehow involved?

[Jean-Pierre]

Done.


Meanwhile, you have failed to answer the question posed more than once.

Have you been in contact with SY with your 'theories' on solving the case ?

Meanwhile as to the title of the thread. The PJ believed the Mccanns had a case to answer, but they lacked the forensics to back it up.

I think you are quite correct in this, Stephen.  It is evident that the PJ, or at least sme members of the PJ, did believe that the McCanns had a case to answer.  And this is not unusual.  Hence the investigations, the tests etc.  But the forensic tests failed to provide evidence.   And therefore that line of enquiry failed. 

What is unusual is that the McCanns then remained arguidos for so long, )and indeed had Amaral delayed a few days he would not havebeen been able to constitute them as arguidos anyway) and that he went on to write a book about it.

[stephen25000]

I think you are quite correct in this, Stephen.  It is evident that the PJ, or at least sme members of the PJ, did believe that the McCanns had a case to answer.  And this is not unusual.  Hence the investigations, the tests etc.  But the forensic tests failed to provide evidence.   And therefore that line of enquiry failed. 

What is unusual is that the McCanns then remained arguidos for so long, )and indeed had Amaral delayed a few days he would not havebeen been able to constitute them as arguidos anyway) and that he went on to write a book about it.

You also have to remember Robert Murat as well.

What I found disturbing was the behaviour of Lori Campell whose 'comments' led to him being made an Arguido, without any foundation whatsoever.

[ferryman]

You also have to remember Robert Murat as well.

What I found disturbing was the behaviour of Lori Campell whose 'comments' led to him being made an Arguido, without any foundation whatsoever.

An almost unheard of point of agreement with Stephen there.

Reporting suspicions to police was (I suppose) reasonable.

Plastering what she suspected over the pages of her paper was unforgiveable.

And Murat punished the paper for it (rightly so!)

[Carana]

You also have to remember Robert Murat as well.

What I found disturbing was the behaviour of Lori Campell whose 'comments' led to him being made an Arguido, without any foundation whatsoever.

That might be another sensibility issue, particularly as she was involved in covering the Soham murders, I believe.

I have no problem with her reporting her suspicions to the police, but it was unfair to then splash it across the paper.

[Carana]

An almost unheard of point of agreement with Stephen there.

Reporting suspicions to police was (I suppose) reasonable.

Plastering what she suspected over the pages of her paper was unforgiveable.

And Murat punished the paper for it (rightly so!)

LOL Snap. I hadn't seen your post before mine.

[Jean-Pierre]

What on earth has a test for paternity got to do with identification of a particular child (from three) of two genetic parents? 

Anne - I think you need to explain the relevance of this. 

[DCI]

What on earth has a test for paternity got to do with identification of a particular child (from three) of two genetic parents? 

Anne - I think you need to explain the relevance of this.

You beat me to. But I have a feeling its because of what I posted.

Yes, and there were rumours spread that Gerry was not Madeleine's father. I may be wrong but I think thats also in Amarals book?

[Jean-Pierre]

I am not sure, DCI.  And I am not going to trawl through it to find out. 

But there were some doubts raised at the time, which were settled by forensic reports which settled the matter.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm#2280

 

[ferryman]

Yes, and there were rumours spread that Gerry was not Madeleine's father. I may be wrong but I think thats also in Amarals book?

I don't know whether it's in Amaral's book (I don't think so, but I stand to be corrected)

What is in the files is a quite remarkable exchange of correspondence between Amaral and the Portuguese forensic institute where Amaral asked the Institute if they could say, certainly, that Gerry is Madeleine's father and the Institute replied that they didn't have a clue, because they were given nothing directly from Madeleine to analyse.

It was shortly after that that the 'Gerry not Madeleine's father' canard broke ...

Letter to the National Forensics Institute (INML) from Goncalo Amaral


17th August 2007

The present inquiry is in relation to the investigation of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann on 3rd May from P da L.

The English authorities in possession of elements collected from the family home in Leicestershire, which are being examined in an unidentified laboratory, traced the girl's DNA profile, in annex to this document.

As it is necessary to the investigation we request the following:

1. Whether in the tests done by the INML Madeleine's profile was established?

2. In the case of a positive answer to point 1, that it should be determined whether the girl is the daughter of the parents identified ? Gerald Patrick McCann and Kate Healy.

3. Information about whether the profile obtained by the INML corresponds to the profile traced in the English laboratory, on the request of the British authorities.

4. If there are differences between the English and Portuguese profiles that a report should be drawn up for this inquiry.

5. In the follow-up of point 4, we request to be informed whether in the English profile the girl is the daughter of the McCann couple.

6. Other information that might be of use to the investigation.

Signed G. Amaral
09-Processos Vol IX Page 2419

Vol IX Page 2419

Reply from the Forensics Institute (INML) to Goncalo Amaral

22-08-2007

Reply to Queries

- We inform you that none of the samples received by this institute were designated as supposedly belonging to the missing girl and we therefore, cannot reply to this query.


- Samples were studied - hair and a piece of cloth - nuclear DNA profiles only being obtained from 4 samples, which upon comparison with the DNA profiles of Kate and Gerry, could not belong to the girl.

- The samples were then studied using mitochondrial DNA analysis, the same was done for the other samples, giving the results in accordance with our report of 9th July No. 2007/000226 LX-BC.

- As requested in point 5, it was determined that the profile obtained by the British lab could belong to a son/daughter of the McCanns.

- The comparison of the profiles obtained in autossomic STR from Kate and Gerry McCann with the profile obtained was carried out.
Signed

The scandal broke shortly after ...

(That is, the scandalous rumour-mongering) ...

[Carana]

He didn't want to understand them, if they didn't fit his theories.

Didn't he have Jane in an apartment in Burgau at some point

I don't think he did actually, I can't remember offhand. The press did, though, I seem to remember.

I can see how that rumour originated - they did find one or more of the same haplotype as Jane's and, of course, the press didn't bother to find out what that actually signified. 

[Carana]

I don't know whether it's in Amaral's book (I don't think so, but I stand to be corrected)

What is in the files is a quite remarkable exchange of correspondence between Amaral and the Portuguese forensic institute where Amaral asked the Institute if they could say, certainly, that Gerry is Madeleine's father and the Institute replied that they didn't have a clue, because they were given nothing directly from Madeleine to analyse.

It was shortly after that that the 'Gerry not Madeleine's father' canard broke ...

Letter to the National Forensics Institute (INML) from Goncalo Amaral


17th August 2007

The present inquiry is in relation to the investigation of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann on 3rd May from P da L.

The English authorities in possession of elements collected from the family home in Leicestershire, which are being examined in an unidentified laboratory, traced the girl's DNA profile, in annex to this document.

As it is necessary to the investigation we request the following:

1. Whether in the tests done by the INML Madeleine's profile was established?

2. In the case of a positive answer to point 1, that it should be determined whether the girl is the daughter of the parents identified ? Gerald Patrick McCann and Kate Healy.

3. Information about whether the profile obtained by the INML corresponds to the profile traced in the English laboratory, on the request of the British authorities.

4. If there are differences between the English and Portuguese profiles that a report should be drawn up for this inquiry.

5. In the follow-up of point 4, we request to be informed whether in the English profile the girl is the daughter of the McCann couple.

6. Other information that might be of use to the investigation.

Signed G. Amaral
09-Processos Vol IX Page 2419

Vol IX Page 2419

Reply from the Forensics Institute (INML) to Goncalo Amaral

22-08-2007

Reply to Queries

- We inform you that none of the samples received by this institute were designated as supposedly belonging to the missing girl and we therefore, cannot reply to this query.


- Samples were studied - hair and a piece of cloth - nuclear DNA profiles only being obtained from 4 samples, which upon comparison with the DNA profiles of Kate and Gerry, could not belong to the girl.

- The samples were then studied using mitochondrial DNA analysis, the same was done for the other samples, giving the results in accordance with our report of 9th July No. 2007/000226 LX-BC.

- As requested in point 5, it was determined that the profile obtained by the British lab could belong to a son/daughter of the McCanns.

- The comparison of the profiles obtained in autossomic STR from Kate and Gerry McCann with the profile obtained was carried out.
Signed

The scandal broke shortly after ...

(That is, the scandalous rumour-mongering) ...

Indeed.


'Gerry is not Madeleine's real father': The Portuguese media's latest attack on the McCanns

Last updated at 01:03 12 September 2007

In the latest of a series of increasingly personal smears against the McCanns, a Portuguese newspaper has claimed that Gerry McCann is not Madeleine's real father.

Sensationalist tabloid '24 horas' claimed that Portuguese police suspected the heart surgeon was not Madeleine's natural father.

With the front page headline, 'Police suspect Gerry is not Maddie's dad', the paper reported detectives were intending to use DNA samples to confirm their suspicions he was not the sperm donor behind the successful IVF treatment that led to her birth.

Scroll down for more...
Kate McCann


The allegation is the latest episode in an astonishing smear campaign launched by both Portuguese detectives and the country's media.

Detectives trying to prove that Kate McCann killed her daughter have painted the 39-year-old doctor as a violent mother prone to "hysterical reactions" and losing control.

The allegations were leaked to Portuguese newspapers hours after Mrs McCann and her husband Gerry left the country under a cloud of suspicion about the disappearance of four-year-old Madeleine.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-481168/Gerry-Madeleines-real-father-The-Portuguese-medias-latest-attack-McCanns.html#ixzz2cj06o0Ly
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[sadie]

Indeed.


'Gerry is not Madeleine's real father': The Portuguese media's latest attack on the McCanns

Last updated at 01:03 12 September 2007

In the latest of a series of increasingly personal smears against the McCanns, a Portuguese newspaper has claimed that Gerry McCann is not Madeleine's real father.

Sensationalist tabloid '24 horas' claimed that Portuguese police suspected the heart surgeon was not Madeleine's natural father.

With the front page headline, 'Police suspect Gerry is not Maddie's dad', the paper reported detectives were intending to use DNA samples to confirm their suspicions he was not the sperm donor behind the successful IVF treatment that led to her birth.

Scroll down for more...
Kate McCann


The allegation is the latest episode in an astonishing smear campaign launched by both Portuguese detectives and the country's media.

Detectives trying to prove that Kate McCann killed her daughter have painted the 39-year-old doctor as a violent mother prone to "hysterical reactions" and losing control.

The allegations were leaked to Portuguese newspapers hours after Mrs McCann and her husband Gerry left the country under a cloud of suspicion about the disappearance of four-year-old Madeleine.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-481168/Gerry-Madeleines-real-father-The-Portuguese-medias-latest-attack-McCanns.html#ixzz2cj06o0Ly
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Dis-gus-ting smears against a bereaved family

Just to get Amaral a score? ... or was there some other reason that we dont know about?

[Angelo222]

Returning to the theme of this thread, the attempt to get one or other of the McCanns to confess on the basis that Madeleine had a fatal accident is a highly significant clue.  Add to this the talk about sedatives and Calpol and the evidence of how noticeably drowsy the twins were and a picture begins to develop.

Mr Amaral and his team obviously were of the opinion that Maddie had been accidentally overdosed and succumbed to it.  Shock horror was what faced the McCanns according to the PJ thinking.  WHAT TO DO???

[AnneGuedes]

Add to this the talk about sedatives and Calpol and the evidence of how noticeably drowsy the twins were and a picture begins to develop.

Calpol isn't a sedative, Angelo. Another mistake of Mr Amaral who should have consulted a doctor. Generally speaking, the sedation issue has been carefully avoided.

[stephen25000]

An article  from 2005.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/children_shealth/3314633/Are-we-using-too-much-Calpol.html