The beating and conviction of Leonor Cipriano

[faithlilly]

This happens everywhere, it's not typical of Portugal where, at least, the media report these cases (and the two PSP officers were heavily and rightly condemned).
Lots of people travel without paying, usually they have either to pay a fine immediately or to sign a document and show their Identity Card. If they refuse both they're taken to the police station.

You make a pertinent point Anne. In the UK where we have had our fair share police brutality, some even leading to convictions being quashed, I think I am correct in saying not one of the officers involved has faced criminal charges. So well done Portugal for admitting when there is a problem and dealing with it appropriately.

[Carana]

You make a pertinent point Anne. In the UK where we have had our fair share police brutality, some even leading to convictions being quashed, I think I am correct in saying not one of the officers involved has faced criminal charges. So well done Portugal for admitting when there is a problem and dealing with it appropriately.

What is the usual procedure in the UK if a police officer is under investigation? Do they stay on whatever case they are working on? Get suspended? Moved to other duties?

[Benice]

You make a pertinent point Anne. In the UK where we have had our fair share police brutality, some even leading to convictions being quashed, I think I am correct in saying not one of the officers involved has faced criminal charges. So well done Portugal for admitting when there is a problem and dealing with it appropriately.

You're right Faithlilly, we did have cases of people being forced into giving false confessions and in those days a policeman's word would be taken over a prisoner in the dock in court almost as a matter of course.    But that was many decades ago in the main, and with the introduction of CCTV in police stations and interviews being video recorded there is little chance of that happening today.   

It seems to me that some sections of the Pj (not all) are still 'policing' in the 'old fashioned' way but fortunately it is being recognised and dealt with to some degree at least.  But nowhere near enough.  I have no idea why Leonor Cipriano is still in prison - that would certainly not be the case in the UK imo.


 

[Eleanor]

I very much doubt that The Ciprianos would ever have made it to Court in Britain, what with the dearth of evidence against them, and the amount of evidence that was decreed to be "Unproven",  as noted in The Trial Transcript.

[faithlilly]

You're right Faithlilly, we did have cases of people being forced into giving false confessions and in those days a policeman's word would be taken over a prisoner in the dock in court almost as a matter of course.    But that was many decades ago in the main, and with the introduction of CCTV in police stations and interviews being video recorded there is little chance of that happening today.   

It seems to me that some sections of the Pj (not all) are still 'policing' in the 'old fashioned' way but fortunately it is being recognised and dealt with to some degree at least.  But nowhere near enough.  I have no idea why Leonor Cipriano is still in prison - that would certainly not be the case in the UK imo.


 

Little chance of it happening now ? Really ?

[Carana]

It's an open document in FARO Court of Law, go there and look for yourself - I did.

Surely the press must have extensively covered the overturning of police officers' convictions? Where might I find links in the serious press about this?

[Mr Gray]

Surely the press must have extensively covered the overturning of police officers' convictions? Where might I find links in the serious press about this?

the convictions weren't overturned

[Carana]

the convictions weren't overturned

I don't remember reading anything about that, either. So I'm confused as to what Luz is referring to.

[Redblossom]

Luz must be referring to all the pj officers she (LC)  accused of torture being found not guilty and IIRC after this she was tried and found guilty for perjury about this torture and her sentence increased by some months for it

[Eleanor]

From what I understood, Leonor was convicted because she couldn't identify the officers who had tortured her, and that apparently "Innocent" men had been charged and temporarily "Defamed" by those charges, before they were acquitted.
There has never been any doubt that she was tortured while in Police Custody.

I seem to remember that Amaral brought a accusation of Defamation against Marcos Correia because Marcos said that he, Amaral was involved in the torture, before Amaral was convicted.
Amaral lost that case.

[DCI]

It's an open document in FARO Court of Law, go there and look for yourself - I did.

the convictions weren't overturned

No they were not. No surprize though, it was Faro court!

Gonçalo Amaral, former coordinator of the Criminal Investigation Department of the PJ of Portimão, was acquitted of the crime of failure to report and sentenced to a year and a half for the crime of making false allegations, with suspended sentence same period.

http://www.lux.iol.pt/nacionais/leonor-cipriano-condenada-a-sete-meses-por-mentir-a-justica-leonor-cipriano-prisao/1435391-4996.html

If you can manage to go through all of this, there is some rather interesting pieces in there.

20/04/2006

The document is the full report of the appeal process of Joana's 'murder' at the Supreme Court of Justice. It is lengthy (and boring...)  composed of two distinct parts, the final report (summary) and the detailed argumentation. It was voted by 4 judges and one against. This one made a 'declaration of vote'

http://www.dgsi.pt/jstj.nsf/954f0ce6ad9dd8b980256b5f003fa814/bfaf1cea93ab75fb8025716200388d89?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,cipriano

[ferryman]

Luz must be referring to all the pj officers she (LC)  accused of torture being found not guilty and IIRC after this she was tried and found guilty for perjury about this torture and her sentence increased by some months for it

Torture was found proved (hence Amaral's conviction) but the officers responsible for torture were not identified.

That was because Leonor had a bag over her head as she was being tortured ...

[DCI]

From what I understood, Leonor was convicted because she couldn't identify the officers who had tortured her, and that apparently "Innocent" men had been charged and temporarily "Defamed" by those charges, before they were acquitted.
There has never been any doubt that she was tortured while in Police Custody.

I seem to remember that Amaral brought a accusation of Defamation against Marcos Correia because Marcos said that he, Amaral was involved in the torture, before Amaral was convicted.
Amaral lost that case.

Yes only last year, Eleanor

http://www.tvi24.iol.pt/sociedade/goncalo-amaral-caso-joana-leonor-cipriano-pj-joana-tvi24/1357977-4071.html

[Redblossom]

Torture was found proved (hence Amaral's conviction) but the officers responsible for torture were not identified.

That was because Leonor had a bag over her head as she was being tortured ...

So how then did she name them in the first place if she didnt know who it was?

Why did she get convicted  of perjury?

BTW Amarals conviction doesnt prove the PJ tortured her, cant you work it out?

So, no one has answered my previous post, LC was in the presence of her lawyer, not the mad one, the one before,  when she confessed which was the day BEFORE she says she was beaten for a confession, worked it out yet? And what would be the point of the police beating a confession out when confessions are INVALID in court

[ferryman]

So how then did she name them in the first place if she didnt know who it was?

Why did she get convicted  of perjury?

BTW Amarals conviction doesnt prove the PJ tortured her, cant you work it out?

So, no one has answered my previous post, LC was in the presence of her lawyer, not the mad one, the one before,  when she confessed which was the day BEFORE she says she was beaten for a confession, worked it out yet? And what would be the point of the police beating a confession out when confessions are INVALID in court

You are confusing those present with those responsible for torture.

Before the bag was placed over her head, she'd have known who was present.

After the bag was placed over her head, she'd have had no clue who delivered the blows

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