The beating and conviction of Leonor Cipriano

[Benice]

It would certainly be more profitable for Leonor C. to be supported in a concrete way by so well informed posters.
But it seems the purpose here is only to demonize Mr Amaral in order to sanctify Madeleine's parents.

Not at all Anne.   The claim is being made - as I understand it, that Leonor's conviction for perjury should automatically have cleared Amaral of his conviction for perjury.   I disagree and I have given my reasons why.

[ferryman]

And you don't suppose that in this country if the lead prosecution witness had been convicted of perjury while testifying in the very same case Amaral's conviction would have been swiftly overturned ?

Good grief!

In Britain, anyone in prison judicially proven to have been beaten in police custody, and to have made a "confession" extorted by that beating, would be released forthwith, and paid massive amounts of compensation ...

ETA:

And the conviction quashed ...

[xtina]

This woman is evil. She took an innocent child's life. She together with another, TORTURED and murdered her own child there can be no sympathy for s..m like Cipriano.

That said, sadly on some sites she is being supported by the very same people who support the McCann family!

Why does that not surprise me?

Do we really think these people would support Cipriano were it not for their idols the McCanns?

What goes around comes around and quite simply the plan to use Cipriano to target others failed!

People lie when they have something to hide, when they have reason to, generally to save their own sorry skins, and in both cases there are liars coming out the walls, all with something to hide and conceal - the truth of matters!

It is time our children, the young and innocent are not cast aside, forgotten so as to protect the wrongdoers, those who harm them!

The name Cipriano and McCann will be forever linked, they now cannot be separated, and it is of their own doing.

The public not being able to think of one without the other - and not for the reasons the supporters would have wished (though how in hell they could support someone like Cipriano is beyond the understanding of decent people.)

The case of the McCanns missing daughter Madeleine having echoes of that of little Joana Cipriano, their names, the cases now entwined, associated with: missing/murdered/tortured/abused/abandoned children - dishonesty and lies.

Not the link the supporters had hoped for but when we aim to deceive in an effort to make others believe an untruth, it is not always what we achieve - and in this case it has come back to bite some bottoms.

[ferryman]

This woman is evil.

What description would you reserve for the police officers who beat her?

Angels?

[Mrs. B]

Chilling to see that there are people out there who still agree with the use of torture of suspects in custody by police.

[AnneGuedes]

Not at all Anne.   The claim is being made - as I understand it, that Leonor's conviction for perjury should automatically have cleared Amaral of his conviction for perjury.   I disagree and I have given my reasons why.

What is claimed is to put things into perspective. Lying ? What for, how, to whom, from where, sincerely or not ? All this has to be contemplated. To-day judges are far more subtle than in the Middle Age. Many very interesting books have been written on this subject. Does Magalhães e Menezes say the TP9 lied ? No, he spoke of "untruths", a short way to indicate things are more complex than truth vs lie.

[Benice]

Good grief!

In Britain, anyone in prison judicially proven to have been beaten in police custody, and to have made a "confession" extorted by that beating, would be released forthwith, and paid massive amounts of compensation ...

ETA:

And the conviction quashed ...

Exactly - I cannot believe Leonor Cipriano is still in prison.  Although the fact that she was actually punished for not being able to correctly identify her torturers is just as shocking.  What about the mitigating circumstances?   Like for instance she was having difficulty focussing at the time probably due to the blood running into her swollen eyes!   

Sheesh!

[Mrs. B]

That's the question, you'd think that once the court had established that torture had taken place, the previous verdict would have been declared unsafe & a retrial, at the very least, ordered. But no, that didn't happen.

[Eleanor]

This really was a shocking miscarriage of justice.

[xtina]

This woman is evil.

What description would you reserve for the police officers who beat her?

Angels?

What i think of them doesn't come into it where I'm concerned. OK

My point is evil people do not deserve sympathy.

My guess is...its because of who the police officers are, you have an interest IMO other wise you wouldn't care less about the case 

[Benice]

That's the question, you'd think that once the court had established that torture had taken place, the previous verdict would have been declared unsafe & a retrial, at the very least, ordered. But no, that didn't happen.

And why no massive investigation into WHO did torture her at a police station?  Surely there must have been some kind of an enquiry? -  but if there was I haven't heard anything about it.    If anyone does know I would appreciate a link.

In the UK I believe they would have brought in Police Officers from another Force to investigate.

[Benice]

What i think of them doesn't come into it where I'm concerned. OK

My point is evil people do not deserve sympathy.

My guess is...its because of who the police officers are, you have an interest IMO other wise you wouldn't care less about the case

So you don't think men who torture a defenceless woman are evil?   

[ferryman]

Exactly - I cannot believe Leonor Cipriano is still in prison.  Although the fact that she was actually punished for not being able to correctly identify her torturers is just as shocking.  What about the mitigating circumstances?   Like for instance she was having difficulty focussing at the time probably due to the blood running into her swollen eyes!   

Sheesh!

And the bag over her head, Benice.

I know from personal experience that although (for now) Leonor has her sight, she may not get away with it long term.

As a lad, walking home from school, I was struck in the eye by a stone thrown by another boy and badly bloodied.  I made an (apparently) full recovery.

But in recent years, a routine eye test detected incipient and (as yet) a-symptomatic macular degeneration in that eye, most likely caused (several experts I've discussed it with agree) by that trauma. 

Leonor's time may similarly come.

I fervently hope not, obviously.

[stephen25000]

Some of us actually care about what was done to Leonor Cipriano.  Torture is a disgrace in a modern day society of any nation.
If Goncalo Amaral had not written his abusive and lying book none of us would have known anything about The Ciprianos or what was done to them.

No one can excuse torture.

However, you like others are ignoring the fact that this woman has been convicted of the murder of her own daughter, and that's for whom you should have the sympathy for, not her mother.

As to her 'torture', you do not know who beat her up, that is speculation.

Likewise, how do you know it wasn't her fellow prisoners who 'beat' her up ?77

There is a history of prisoners who beat up fellow inmates who have committed 'certain' crimes, and this has happened in the UK as well.

All I see in this article is the continuing attacks on Amaral, who had the temerity to suggest that MADELEINE'S PARENTS HID UP THE REAL TRUTH AS REGARDS HER DISAPPEARANCE.

[xtina]

So you don't think men who torture a defenceless woman are evil?

Do you know they did ?

Do you know who they are ?