The beating and conviction of Leonor Cipriano

[Benice]

additionally:
Books written about them.  Much money made
Disinformation spread via leaks
Salacious sex exploits "claimed" against the alleged perpetrators with absolutely no indicators ... or proof
In each case, the woman picked on as perp.  usually the easiest targetSimilar sets of officers on the case, with Guilhermino Ferreira da Encarnação, National Director of PJ in Faro in overall charge.  Goncalo Amaral second in command

And two little girls vanishing in less than 3 years at a distance of only 7 miles apart + another, Carolina Santos who was temporarily abducted until saved

Too many similarities;
The cases are connected.

As a matter of interest, were any Portuguese policeWOMEN ever involved in these cases. Even the Portuguese FLO for the McCanns was a man.  A woman's input could well have made a difference.  Wasn't it a woman - the Doctor? who finally put a spanner in the 'official' works regarding Leonor's injuries.    Just a thought.

[Eleanor]

More than anything they need the help of the European Court of Human Rights, who seem to be taking an awful long time over the matter.

They always do take a long time, Mrs. B.  Too many injustices going on in the world.  But it will help Leonor to know that there are people supporting her, including in Portugal.  The people of Portugal don't all believe that she is guilty.

[ferryman]

As a matter of interest, were any Portuguese policeWOMEN ever involved in these cases. Even the Portuguese FLO for the McCanns was a man.  A woman's input could well have made a difference.  Wasn't it a woman - the Doctor? who finally put a spanner in the 'official' works regarding Leonor's injuries.    Just a thought.

It was the female governor of the prison Ana (her surname escapes me) who had Leonor examined by a doctor, confirming her injuries.

Our old stalwart Faith actually insists that the prison governer was "in it".

Of course ...

[Benice]

It was the female governor of the prison Ana (her surname escapes me) who had Leonor examined by a doctor, confirming her injuries.

Our old stalwart Faith actually insists that the prison governer was "in it".

Of course ...

Ahh thanks for that Ferryman - I knew it was one or the other and picked the wrong one. 

[stephen25000]

Stephen.  Just what i would expect from you

Ignore the torture.
Ignore the lack of evidence
Ignore the propaganda put out against Leonor and Joao
Ignore the fact that the only "witness" had his witness statement beaten out of him ... according to allegations
... and rescinded it the moment he had the chance




You would do very well in certain branches of the PT Judiciary, Stephen
.
Thank God that there are some Judges who are thinking and honest, like the Judge who protested about the judgement against Leonor and Joao, ..... and refused to put his name to the Guilty verdict

The expected reply.

You condemn the Portuguese judicial system when it suits you, merely in this case because you want to damage Amaral even further.The truth being of course, he was a bit player in the Mccann case, and it was the PJ as a whole who believed the Mccanns hid the fate of Madeleine.

However, you support the Portuguese system in the conviction of Amaral, and there lies your rank hypocrisy.

Meanwhile like it or not, Cipriano is a convicted child killer and you SUPPORT HER.

That says everything.

[icabodcrane]

The thought of a group of men beating a woman is appalling ...  bunch of sadistic thugs

We should be careful, though,  not to make the unsupportable leap that because a confession was  'beaten'  out of her that is was, necessarily,  untrue

I am sure that  evidence other than the confessions was put to the jury   ( is it true, for instance,  that the mother did not report her eight year old daughter as missing for two days ?  ...  and that she excused blood being found by saying she had beaten her daughter whose nose had subsequently bled ?  )

The little I have looked up on the net  about the case does not make for comfortable reading all round,  and it certainly does not lead me into wanting to  'champion'  this woman,  who,  we must accept,  really may  have been as brutal to her own child as the men at who's hand she suffered

[sadie]

The intended reply Stephen

Time you looked at this case logically ... and thought about it a bit

But then are logic and thinking your strengths? ... I ask myself



However hard I try. I cannot remove the memory of you on big footie forum repeatedly demanding ,  "How did Leonor know she was kneeling on glass ash trays"

I dont think that logic and thought are your strongest points, do you Stephen?

[sadie]

The thought of a group of men beating a woman is appalling ...  bunch of sadistic thugs

We should be careful, though,  not to make the unsupportable leap that because a confession was  'beaten'  out of her that is was, necessarily,  untrue

I am sure that  evidence other than the confessions was put to the jury   ( is it true, for instance,  that the mother did not report her eight year old daughter as missing for two days ?  ...  and that she excused blood being found by saying she had beaten her daughter whose nose had subsequently bled ?  )

The little I have looked up on the net  about the case does not make for comfortable reading all round,  and it certainly does not lead me into wanting to  'champion'  this woman,  who,  we must accept,  really may  have been as brutal to her own child as the men at who's hand she suffered

could you please support your words Icabod.  THankyou

[Benice]

The expected reply.

You condemn the Portuguese judicial system when it suits you, merely in this case because you want to damage Amaral even further.The truth being of course, he was a bit player in the Mccann case, and it was the PJ as a whole who believed the Mccanns hid the fate of Madeleine.

However, you support the Portuguese system in the conviction of Amaral, and there lies your rank hypocrisy.

Meanwhile like it or not, Cipriano is a convicted child killer and you SUPPORT HER.

That says everything.

From what I can see Amaral was convicted on irrefutable evidence in the form of his own paperwork
whereas Leonor was convicted on the strength of a confession obtained by torture and very little else. 

Can you provide the concrete evidence which was used to convict her?  I'm quite happy to change my mind if the evidence proves her guilt.

[icabodcrane]

could you please support your words Icabod.  THankyou

Well I can support the fact that none of us can know whether or not  the confession beaten out of this woman was actually the truth ...  because that is  a fact

It may be the case that you are supporting a child murderer  ...  do you accept that ?

[faithlilly]

Good grief!

In Britain, anyone in prison judicially proven to have been beaten in police custody, and to have made a "confession" extorted by that beating, would be released forthwith, and paid massive amounts of compensation ...

ETA:

And the conviction quashed ...

It's the chicken and the egg again. Can we believe she was beaten by the PJ rather than her fellow prisoners if she now has a conviction for perjuring herself with regard to those very injuries ?

[Mrs. B]

Facts to bear in mind, both Leonor Cipriano & Amaral has been found guilty to their respective crimes in courts of justice in Portugal. Amaral was convicted for lying to the court, in view of that, it is my opinion that ALL his cases, not only the Cipriano case, should have been examined by relevant authorities.

[Benice]

The thought of a group of men beating a woman is appalling ...  bunch of sadistic thugs

We should be careful, though,  not to make the unsupportable leap that because a confession was  'beaten'  out of her that is was, necessarily,  untrue

I am sure that  evidence other than the confessions was put to the jury  ( is it true, for instance,  that the mother did not report her eight year old daughter as missing for two days ?  ...  and that she excused blood being found by saying she had beaten her daughter whose nose had subsequently bled ?  )

The little I have looked up on the net  about the case does not make for comfortable reading all round,  and it certainly does not lead me into wanting to  'champion'  this woman,  who,  we must accept,  really may  have been as brutal to her own child as the men at who's hand she suffered

I remember reading that Icab.   But I also remember reading that she had reported her daughter missing to the GNR and it was the GNR who took two days before reporting the case to the PJ.     However, I can't vouch for the veracity of that.

[sadie]

Well I can support the fact that none of us can know whether or not  the confession beaten out of this woman was actually the truth ...  because that is  a fact

It may be the case that you are supporting a child murderer  ...  do you accept that ?

So it is a myth? about the two days etc.?

No I do not accept that I am supporting a child murder.  NO EVIDENCE at all.

Leonor WAS tortured.  No doubt about that.

[Mrs. B]

Amaral testified in court that Cipriano sustained her injuries AT the police station, from a fall down the stairs. The court obviously did not believe the story about the stairs, but they did believe he was correct about the place WHERE the it happened, i.e. the police station in Portimao. Are you now claiming Amaral LIED about that too?