The beating and conviction of Leonor Cipriano

[faithlilly]

So it is a myth? about the two days etc.?

No I do not accept that I am supporting a child murder.  NO EVIDENCE at all.

Leonor WAS tortured.  No doubt about that.

Well you are supporting a child murderer sadie and not just any child, her own child.

[Benice]

It's the chicken and the egg again. Can we believe she was beaten by the PJ rather than her fellow prisoners if she now has a conviction for perjuring herself with regard to those very injuries ?

But if she was beaten by fellow prisoners - I presume whilst in jail  - why would the PJ officers claim she had fallen down steps at their police station in a suicide attempt?   That makes no sense.

[Mrs. B]

No, what we ARE supporting is a fundamental human right NOT to be tortured.

Article 3 – ECHR. Prohibition of torture

No one shall be subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

NB There are NO exceptions to this right.

As a court has determined that Cipriano WAS subjected to Torture, the verdict against her is unsafe & should warrant a retrial.

Should another court come to the same conclusion as the previous one, no problem at all.

[Redblossom]

This is the supreme court ruling in the Lenora Cipriano case,  including links to the original portuguese

part 1
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/07/supreme-court-of-justice-joana-case.html

Part 2
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/07/supreme-court-of-justice-joana-case_13.html

part 3
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/07/supreme-court-of-justice-joana-case_5147.html

part 4
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/07/supreme-court-of-justice-joana-case_15.html

[faithlilly]

But if she was beaten by fellow prisoners - I presume whilst in jail  - why would the PJ officers claim she had fallen down steps at their police station in a suicide attempt?   That makes no sense.

When Cipriano was first taken to prison she showed signs of slight bruising, a report by a warder confirms this, probably sustained when the officers tried to manhandle her during her suicide attempt. It is only later, after she had sent some time within the prison population that the more severe alleged bruising appeared.

[Mrs. B]

Rubbish. That is not what the court determined at all.

[icabodcrane]

No, what we ARE supporting is a fundamental human right NOT to be tortured.



As a court has determined that Cipriano WAS subjected to Torture, the verdict against her is unsafe & should warrant a retrial.

Should another court come to the same conclusion as the previous one, no problem at all.

I wouldn't  disagree with any of that

I think it is important to acknowledge, though,  that it  may  be a child murderer's human rights that are being defended here

[Mrs. B]

Doesn't matter. Art 3 comes under "There are no exceptions or limitations on this right."

The crime the person is accused for is IRRELEVANT in reference to the ECHR issue.

[ferryman]

This is the supreme court ruling in the Lenora Cipriano case,  including links to the original portuguese

part 1
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/07/supreme-court-of-justice-joana-case.html

Part 2
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/07/supreme-court-of-justice-joana-case_13.html

part 3
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/07/supreme-court-of-justice-joana-case_5147.html

part 4
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/07/supreme-court-of-justice-joana-case_15.html

For the record, you've posted something useful.

Posted by Astro, translated by Astro and (for the record) I am a (genuine) fan of the translations of Astro, long have been.

[icabodcrane]

Doesn't matter. Art 3 comes under "There are no exceptions or limitations on this right."

The crime the person is accused for is IRRELEVANT in reference to the ECHR issue.

I am not disagreeing

I am just pointing out that,  in this case,  it may be the human rights of a woman who beat her little girl  to death that are being defended

I think it is important to be clear about that   

[Mrs. B]

IMO it's irrelevant, as NOBODY, regardless of the crime committed, should be tortured.

ETA To uphold the principles of ECHR is not "defending" criminals, it's defending the RIGHTS we ALL are entitled to.

[stephen25000]

The intended reply Stephen

Time you looked at this case logically ... and thought about it a bit

But then are logic and thinking your strengths? ... I ask myself



However hard I try. I cannot remove the memory of you on big footie forum repeatedly demanding ,  "How did Leonor know she was kneeling on glass ash trays"

I dont think that logic and thought are your strongest points, do you Stephen?

Your answer is not only illogical, it is verging on hysterical.

WHERE HAVE I REFERRED TO GLASS ASH TRAYS ?

[AnneGuedes]

Mental torture exists too.
I think it's important to be aware of that.

[Mrs. B]

Mental torture exists too.
I think it's important to be aware of that.

Of course it does, Anne, & it is equally reprehensible.  I think that comes under the "inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment" of Art 3.

[sadie]

Well you are supporting a child murderer sadie and not just any child, her own child.

faithlilly

you say thet she is a child murderer. 

The law is an Ass.  Shw was convicted on NO EVIDENCE and it is a huge black mark against Portugal that this extremely unsafe conviction has been allowed to stand

Lets consider some of the facts, next post